Does Mississippi State have the best defensive line we've played this year?
Several of our new friends from Mississipi State have been a welcome addition to the board in recent days, especially since they provide insight on a team that most here don't know much about. One statement I've heard several times has piqued my curiousity:
And yes, this will be the best defensive front-7 you will be facing all year.
You're acting like you know what the hell you're talking about but Arkansas and Alabama don't have the best offenses in the SEC. Auburn and Kentucky do. If you think you have a better offense than either team, you're mistaken. You put up ~150 yards rushing against defensive lines that simply are not as good as ours, I'm sorry. Get over yourself and your team. Throw names out the door. It's not a "the SEC is better; we're the most storied program in the country" issue, it's a "Mississippi State is a better team this year; we got screwed on bowl selections" issue (Florida was picked 2 spots ahead of Mississippi State despite having a horrible season because of prestige points. We should be playing Florida State.)
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/first-impressions-michigan-v-mississippi-state
This is something that kind of got buried in a thread that made its way to the third page of the MGoBoard that I thought deserved some additional consideration by the populace at large. So what say you, fine posters of MGoBoard, does Mississippi State have the best defensive line (or front 7) that Michigan plays this year?
December 8th, 2010 at 11:51 PM ^
Kerrigan
December 8th, 2010 at 11:52 PM ^
No.
Hey, that was easy!
Ask Bret Bielema who might possibly be better than a second-rate SEC team. Hint: it's one that outscores opponents like 4-1 even with 4th string scrubs in play.
December 9th, 2010 at 12:05 AM ^
Short answer: Yes, with an if... Long answer, no, with a but...
Really, though, I don't see any indication that any component of MissSU is anything more than middling in the SEC. Even after proper application of OMGSEC, they're not going to be meaningfully better on the lines than Iowa/Wiscy/tOSU cornkids.
December 8th, 2010 at 11:53 PM ^
I think Iowa, Ohio State, and Wisconsin have pretty good D-lines. Funny MSU thinks there so good, out of all the teams we could have played they are the best matchup. That being said I dont think Michigan is going to easily win or anything I just think that MIssissipi fan has had to much cowbell
December 8th, 2010 at 11:56 PM ^
...Ohio State, Wisconsin, Penn State, Iowa, maybe Michigan State are better than Mississippi State.
I'm guessing this guy is one of the "SEC is better than Big Ten at everything!!!!1!!!" types...
December 8th, 2010 at 11:58 PM ^
Read his thread with an exaggerated southern drawl while chewing gum and youll get a real sense of how idiotic this moron sounds in person
December 9th, 2010 at 12:09 AM ^
I'd take Ohio State's defense over Mississippi State's defense any day. Sorry SEC.
December 9th, 2010 at 7:27 AM ^
I don't think OSU fans would agree, compared to their record against SEC teams in the past.
Just saying...
December 9th, 2010 at 9:34 AM ^
Complete non sequitur which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. How does osu's record vs. SEC have anything to do with whether their front 7 is better (or not) than miss state's?
December 9th, 2010 at 12:12 AM ^
like that? I mean we all know the SEC is way better than the slow fat big ten! If they truly believe that then how do they explain the 2008 Capital One Bowl! When Michigan men went into Florida and schooled there beloved Timmy Tebow!
F**k the SEC!
December 9th, 2010 at 12:23 AM ^
but the heart is there! RARR!
December 9th, 2010 at 7:53 AM ^
I think on this issue, I would simply refrain from getting into it. A good bud of mine, who played football for Tennessee, and who is very knowledgeable about college football (and who doesn't knock the B10) was discussing MSU. He claims they are way better than their record and that we should be prepared for a tough battle.
Don't know how much SEC fball you watch, but their D's have lots of speed.
Yeah, the 2008 Fiesta bowl was a good win for Michigan, but to ascribe a trend based on one game is nutso. That Michigan team was very talented, particularly on O, and was finally healthy for the first time that year since the Horror. Henne, Hart, Long, Manningham, Arrington - lots of talent, and lots of upper classmen talent. Half that O is in the NFL.
December 9th, 2010 at 9:07 AM ^
Holy Crap. we went to the Fiesta bowl with 4 losses? Were we in the Big East that year??
December 9th, 2010 at 1:15 PM ^
We had the Horror, we lost to a great Oregon team and had injuries that prevailed through the rest of the season until we played Florida.
December 9th, 2010 at 12:14 AM ^
Ryan Kerrigan is probably better than their D-line.
This got me a bit:
Get over yourself and your team.
Penis envy?
December 9th, 2010 at 12:37 AM ^
December 9th, 2010 at 12:41 AM ^
"You put up ~150 yards rushing against defensive lines that simply are not as good as ours, I'm sorry. Get over yourself and your team."
Alcorn St and UAB both put up about 120 on them... I have a hunch we might be able to top that.
If they "got screwed"...
I'd say some of that was probably because their two most impressive games were losses and they squeaked out several wins against mediocre (giving credit to Florida and Georgia) and outright terrible (Ole Miss and UAB) teams. Although, I'm sure Florida being Florida didn't help.
December 9th, 2010 at 12:43 AM ^
Your avatar is nice.
December 9th, 2010 at 12:52 AM ^
I'm really starting to feel objectified.
Look at my words!
December 9th, 2010 at 1:28 AM ^
That ass was starting to make me wonder with furious anger! Looks very familiar! Howard, is that you? She's not coming back bro. Long gone!
December 9th, 2010 at 1:37 AM ^
I feel your pain.
December 9th, 2010 at 6:45 AM ^
we should start a support group.
December 9th, 2010 at 9:49 AM ^
Look at my words!
What words?
Oh. I see.
December 9th, 2010 at 1:47 AM ^
Nice to hear they have some confidence in their front 7. (How about that back 4?)
I'm looking forward to playing an SEC team. They usually take our speed & grit for granted.
A healthy Denard will be on the field with a platoon of "hungry" players pumped up about playing on New Year's Day. Should be a pretty good "dog" fight.
December 9th, 2010 at 4:40 AM ^
LOL, Miss state has the best D line we have seen? What is this kid smoking? I think 3 out of the 5 losses to top 8 teams and their D lines say otherwise..
Have fun pushing Lewan around
December 9th, 2010 at 6:28 AM ^
From what I saw in the Arkansas - MIss St. game that I was lucky to stumble into earlier in the season, the Miss St. defense skews aggressive. They did a good job of getting to Mallett, which they needed to, but they were leaving themselves open to being burned and, frankly, Denard has more weapons with which to burn them.
Best? I doubt it. But they will be getting pretty effective penetration if they play it as aggressive as they did against Arkansas. Though, seeing enough video of Roy Roundtree streaking through the secondary wide open may give them some cause to reconsider.
December 9th, 2010 at 6:49 AM ^
lolwut?
December 9th, 2010 at 7:27 AM ^
I am probably the only person on the board to have lived in both Ann Arbor (5th and Packard) and Starkville. I watched most of both teams games this year. As a Mississippi State season ticket holder, I saw all of their games except for the untelevised away games. I watched all of Michigan'snationally televised games.
Mississippi State has a good defensive front. Their defensive tackles are big and strong. They tend to push the pocket back on pass plays and to hold the line of scrimmage on run plays. They play many defensive tackles (Pernell McPhee, Josh Boyd, Fletcher Cox, James Carmon, and Jeff Howie) and all are pretty good. It will be hard for Michigan to run straight ahead.
Their defensive ends are a little undersized and can be pushed around some. For all of the penetration of the defensive tackles, Mississippi State didn't seem to have many sacks this year. The DE's didn't do a good job of getting to the QB. They miss Nick Bell who died of cancer this year. Michigan will have an easier time getting outside against this defense.
December 9th, 2010 at 9:43 AM ^
i agree, i imagine we are gonna get to the corner a lot on this team with our speed. Their blitzing will hurt them quite a bit with Denards scrambling.
December 9th, 2010 at 11:23 AM ^
I think the Alabama game is intructive. MState was able to hold Alabama to some 3 and outs to begin the game, but Alabama found a way to get players in space on the perimeter with swing passes, screens, etc. that they broke for long TD's. IIRC, Alabma had three TDs of about 80 yards when a DB was called on to tackle Juliio Jones or Mark Ingram in space and whiffed.
I think a healthy dose of bubble screens would loosen up the interior for Denard. MState is not a team that can keep up in a shoot out. The are slow and methodical with the ball.
December 9th, 2010 at 9:16 AM ^
I'm pretty sure Iowa has a better D-line, OSU probably had the best front 7. I'm sure Mississippi State has a solid front 7, but no way there's is better than a top tier Big Ten team.
December 9th, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
Define "better." Based on the assessment's of our proprietor and other posters, MSU's defense seems very aggressive and a little blitz-happy. Maybe pretty athletic, too. Does that make them "better" than other defenses (or front 7s)? Probably not. As Brian stated, this is a high variance scheme - live by the sword, die by the sword, so to speak. It's a big play defense - they make big plays and are more vulnerable to giving up big plays. I don't know if that makes them better, just different.
As for rushing performances, Auburn (228), Alabama (196), Arkansas (196), Florida (182), LSU (182), and Alcorn St (173) all had pretty successful days running the ball on MSU(NTMSU).
December 9th, 2010 at 11:26 AM ^
Since Michigan's biggest offensive failings seem to be in sustaining long drives without making mistakes, a high-variance defensive scheme sounds just fine to me thanks.
December 9th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^
but this thread is not about the overall team. This thread is about our front seven. I don't know if it's the best front seven you've seen this year but it's up there at the top. Our entire front seven is large and athletic. People are arguing that we are just a middle of the pack team, and that is correct because we are. Our front seven, however, is as good as anyone in the SEC. It's as good as LSU, Alabama, etc. Our defense was the second best in the SEC in conference play. That was because of our front seven and our defensive coordinator, because our secondary is not that great. The front seven also makes things easier on our secondary. Fletcher Cox, Pernell mcphee, Chris White, and kJ Wright will all get a chance to play on Sunday's most likely.
December 9th, 2010 at 12:58 PM ^
The front seven also makes things easier on our secondary.
I agree. Your front seven is good. It's probably at the end of the top tier in terms of front sevens that we've played this year, though. The real problem, however, that you guys (i.e. most of the Mississippi State fans who have commented here) don't seem to understand is that the key to stopping Michigan's run game is the secondary, not the front seven.
December 9th, 2010 at 1:44 PM ^
our front seven will be one of the best you've seen. People were saying we were middle of the pack, but the thread was about our front seven. That unit is as good as any in the SEC. That's all I'm saying. They aren't as fast as Robinson but you don't have to be as fast as someone to contain them. Our linebackers are really good at containing and keeping speed guys from turning the corner. If the key to stopping Denard is the secondary, then so be it. We've contained Newton and Mallet this year. We played bad against Bama though. I think we'll slow robinson down. He'll get his stats though. I was just saying that our front seven is legit. Very legit. If someone on here doesn't believe me, that's cool. You will see on New year's day. They are talented. That doesn't mean we win though.
December 9th, 2010 at 4:58 PM ^
I understand your point. Your front seven is good. They just aren't as good as some of you think they are or the weakness of the secondary really hurts your run defense (it's probably the later), or you wouldn't have given up the rushing numbers that you did this year, especially to a few not so good teams. The reason that the key to stopping Denard is the secondary is because this isn't relevant to stopping Denard:
Our linebackers are really good at containing and keeping speed guys from turning the corner.
Denard isn't a "turn the corner" guy. He's a "straight at the hole quick and blindingly fast" guy. If the hole is there he is in the second level before the front seven really has a chance. It puts all the pressure in the world on the secondary to come up and make the play. Newton and Denard aren't really the same type of player. Newton is a straight at you player, as well, but he's not nearly as fast (or quick) which mitigates the "it's all up to the secondary" issue somewhat because the front seven has more time to react. Truth be told, you also didn't really "contain" Newton. Auburn contained Newton. If you think the Newton you guys "contained" was the same Newton that existed later in the season, I don't think you watched many Auburn games. Basically, what I am saying, is that I wouldn't bank on the fact that you "contained" Newton or Mallett. They're not remotely the same players and don't have anywhere near the same skill set. It really just isn't a good comparison.
December 10th, 2010 at 12:22 PM ^
Based on the rushing defenses we have faced in 2010, 2 teams we have played have better rushing defense statistics than Mississippi State:
6. Ohio State: 373 rushing attempts against, 1132 total rushing yards gained by opponents, 3.03 average yards per play.
8. Iowa: 378 rushing attempts against, 1242 total rushing yards gained by opponents, 3.29 average yards per play.
19. Miss State: 410 rushing attempts against, 1460 total rushing yards gained by opponents, 3.56 average yards per play.
Here are some teams we have played who have similar stats as Miss. State:
20. Mich State: 407 rushing attempts against, 1463 total rushing yards gained by opponents, 3.59 average yards per play.
29. Wisconsin: 397 rushing attempts against, 1580 total rushing yards gained by opponents, 3.98 average yards per play.
42. Purdue: 459 rushing attempts against, 1655 total rushing yards gained by opponents, 3.61 average yards per play.
57. Notre Dame: 441 rushing attempts against, 1767 total rushing yards gained by opponents, 4.01 average yards per play.
Based on numbers alone, we have played similar D lines or better and have had mixed success over the course of the year. Make your conclusions.