December 14th, 2011 at 4:00 PM ^

They can't know for sure, but it seems likely that things aren't going to get any worse.  The NCAA doesn't hide the ball if you work with them.  They'll tell you if your self-imposed sanctions are appropriate. 


December 14th, 2011 at 4:01 PM ^

1) He doesn't know. In that case, if Ohio gets pounded by sanctions, Dunn suddenly could become available again, depending on timing.

2) He does know. There's still risk to Ohio here, though, if the NCAA floats what the punishment is going to be and there's huge backlash and NCAA changes its mind and stiffens the punishment. In that case, Urban looks stupid and recruits could bolt (as in 1 above).


December 14th, 2011 at 4:33 PM ^

If it turns out that Urban is wrong (which would be nice as it would show that the NCAA isn't acting improperly), then would we really want Dunn?  Dunn wants to play at OSU, and he should.  No matter what the outcome of all their violations, the kid should play where his heart led him...and if that be a festering pit, so be it.


December 14th, 2011 at 4:01 PM ^

I see it ALL THE TIME IN SALES. Guys say whatever they need to close the deal. It sickens me to my core as I don't and am honest with my customers.
<br>What happened at USC was nowhere near the level transgression we saw at Ohio an they got hammered. No way Ohio gets off easy.
<br>Option 1 - Urban is honest with Dunn and loses him to OSU.
<br>Option 2 - Urban tells Dunn what Dunn wants to hear so Urban keeps him.


December 14th, 2011 at 6:43 PM ^

USC took a defiant posture with the NCAA and thumbed its nose at them throughout the entire scandal. They were known to have one of the smallest compliance offices in the country, and they didn't see it fit to bulk it up in response to the scandal. They also hired Lane Kiffin, who was on Pete Carrol's staff when the violations occurred. The heavy sanctions they got hit with were probably intended to punish them as much for their indifference as for the violations themselves. 

While their initial response was pathetic, OSU hasn't been quite so arrogant in its dealings with the NCAA. Also, USC athletic director Mike Garrett was an NCAA outsider and had no established rapport with the bigwigs, whereas Gene Smith is a lifetime member of the NCAA's good ol' boy network. I have no reason to believe that they'll get hit any harder. It may not be fair, but it is what it is.


December 14th, 2011 at 4:03 PM ^

What'd you expect him to do?  Say OMigod they're going to bring the hammer!!!  This is what coaches do, they play down sanctions and say things will all be okay.  Kiffin pulled the same when recruiting to USC basically saying that they were going to win the appeal. 

Something more is going to happen to Ohio, it's just a matter of time and probably won't be what we want to happen, but PR-wise there's no way the NCAA can let them get away with a slap to the wrist.  USC, among other schools, would come out breathing fire.


December 14th, 2011 at 4:04 PM ^

Dunn doesn't seem very intelligent. Hes being lied to of course and he won't fit as well as he's been lead to believe in Meyers offense. I feel sorry for the kid really. Meyer is just trying to secure his top players at all cost.


December 14th, 2011 at 4:04 PM ^

I don't think he would lie about this to his recruits.  Especially since all of these most recent signees can easily withdraw after the sanctions do or don't come down.

The amazing thing to me is that Meyer is apparently confident that the NCAA has no problem with him spreading the good news.  It seems that this would be a huge image problem for the NCAA and they don't care.


December 14th, 2011 at 4:15 PM ^

  Come on.  Srsly?

  I'm sure people can find great examples of him stretching the truth, but here's a whopper he told upon his exit from UF:

"But what I didn't want to have happen, and I made this clear to Jeremy [Foley], if I am able to go coach, I want to coach at one place, the University of Florida. It would be a travesty, it would be ridiculous to all of a sudden come back and get the feeling back, get the health back, feel good again and then all of a sudden go throw some other colors on my shirt and go coach. I don't want to do that. I have too much love for this University and these players and for what we've built."


December 14th, 2011 at 4:39 PM ^

I didn't say that Meyer wouldn't lie.  I said he wouldn't lie about this because there was very little to gain and a lot to lose.

If he straight up lies to Dunn and sanctions come down, Dunn doesn't look back.  If he tells Dunn he doesn't know, and sanctions come down, he still has credibility with Dunn and can work to overcome the sanctions.

If he straight up lies and no sanctions come down, Dunn stays committed.  If he tells Dunn he doesn't know and no sanctions come down, Dunn commits.

Dunn isn't stupid enough to lie to a recruit for no reason.  If Dunn were still an early enrollee, I might be inclined to think Meyer is lying and doesn't actually know.  But since he is not, Meyer knows and is letting recruits and players know sounds infinitely more plausible.


December 14th, 2011 at 5:16 PM ^

  You admit that Meyer lies.  Yet, you think there is some reason that he wouldn't lie to someone about THIS, specifically.  He has considerable interest in doing everything possible to get Dunn to reaffirm his committment.


  There is no 'lose' in this scenario for Meyer.  If sanctions come down, Dunn is out regardless.  If Michigan believes that Dunn is off the table, and then Michigan gets another stud RB to fill his spot, then Meyer wins by virtue of not having to face Dunn at Michigan.


  If he gets Dunn to commit before sanctions are announced, and then Dunn enrolls early ... well, guess what, Dunn is stuck.  Meyer can't allow Dunn to visit UM because he knows that Dunn will probably commit.  And yes, per Fox, Meyer is pulling strings to get Dunn enrolled early.


  So, I find your assertion that Meyer wouldn't lie to Dunn about sanctions to be demonstrably false.


December 14th, 2011 at 5:40 PM ^

I agree. Make no mistake, he is a snake with big paycheck and will do anything to win. Including making empty promises to a kid that would be good for UM and bad for the fuckeyes.  He is baiting him.  Also, if Dunn does decide to stick with OSU, good luck to him.  I hope he learns his OSU degree will make him supervisor at a reputable fast food chain.


December 14th, 2011 at 4:05 PM ^

Probably a good guess, combined with a good sales pitch. He knows there will be something additional, if only an extra year or two of probation. Probably has a pretty good idea there won't be anything serious. Carroll had a ggos idea what was going to happen and jumped ship at USC.


December 14th, 2011 at 4:06 PM ^

It's all about money. Ohio brings it in and the NCAA wont do anything to really kill that. Add in Gee's former roommate leading the charge...yea I will believe any kind of punishment when I see it.

los barcos

December 14th, 2011 at 4:07 PM ^

I thought this exact same thing.  Assuming meyer isn’t lying and he knows whats coming, how the hell could the ncaa even pretend to do its job anymore?  If this were the case, osu would be so clearly in the ncaa’s pocket that they know ahead of time the consequences they are going to face.  That screams collusion.   On the other hand, if meyer is just flat out lying to the recruits, and he has no idea what the punishments will be, that just makes him look like an utter dirtbag. 


I don’t know. But this whole situation with osu vis a vis the ncaa is very upsetting.


December 14th, 2011 at 4:11 PM ^

Will not be punished for all of the reasons listed above.  That does not change the fact that Urban is the second coming of the vest (he'll recruit, he'll win, he'll lie, he'll cheat, etc.).  I'll take Hoke, Mattison, Borges all day.  Ohio is going to be a pain for a while (as they should be) but they won't be starting any kind of runs soon. 


P.S. No hard feelings about Dunn. I do hope he gets what he was promised. Oh and that he is 0-4 v. M.

State Street

December 14th, 2011 at 4:13 PM ^

Pay close attention to what Bri'onte says.  Urban just "told" him what was up.  He didn't say "Urban told me he spoke to the NCAA and we're looking good."  Sounds like he's just taking whatever Meyer is saying and taking it as gospel.  


December 14th, 2011 at 4:15 PM ^

he was saying that Dunn does not have to worry about the penalties, meaning they don't affect him. so under this hypothesis, there could be scholarship reductions but that would most likely affect future or walk on buckeyes or other players. there could be massive fines and coaching reductions, but those would only tangentially involve dunn. the only thing that would involve dunn directly would be a post season ban, which given the big ten lobbying to keep teams in bowl games and seems remote anyhow.

Ultimate Quizmaster

December 14th, 2011 at 4:16 PM ^

If I were an SEC coach not getting in on the dirtiness and defying on NCAA rules, this would be the catalyst to jump on the bandwagon.

Watch the domino effect ripple through Oregon, Texas, OU, more than it already has. Hell if I were Chip Kelly why not get another Lyles or whatever his name is to funnel me recruits.


December 14th, 2011 at 4:17 PM ^

It will be interesting to see Urban start spinning when he is wrong and Ohio gets hit hard.
<br>What will Dunn do then?
<br>The conversation will go like this:
<br>Dunn: Coach you said we would be ok, what happened?
<br>Meyer: We were told everything would be ok.
<br>Dunn: Looking back on it, I don't know how Ohio could come to this conclusion. Didn't Tressel lie multiple times to the NCAA, didn't a whole bunch of players violate NCAA rules and then didn't some of the same players violate more rules in the summer.
<br>Meyer: You have a point there. Let me check into it.


December 14th, 2011 at 4:20 PM ^

is there any way that we, as Michigan fans, are overblowing the severity of infractions? This one has dropped off the radar from a national standpoint, given the issues that have since broke in Miami and Penn State.

Was firing the iconic Vest and a few scholarship reductions enough to satisfy the NCAA gods? Is it because the money and benefits received was small compared to USC and Reggie Bush?

I just can get my head wrapped around the idea that they shouldn't get hammered given the scope of improper benefits and apparent LOIC, but it may be because of my myopic viewpoint.



December 14th, 2011 at 4:51 PM ^

From a toothless, subpoena-powerless NCAA perspective, I agree with you. But from a common sense perspective, we all know that there was a big blazing fire behind all that smoke ever since Tressel stepped on campus.  From the recruits (like Clarrett, Troy Smith and TP) who knew they had free run of the place to the shady business person/fan hangers-on, I'll never be convinced there wasn't a systemic problem during the Vest's regime that gave OSU a huge advantage over us.