The difference between Carr and Hoke

Submitted by jfox on September 11th, 2011 at 1:46 AM

Do you remember the waning seconds of the Orange bowl win against Alabama? Tom Brady threw a pass down in to Alabama territory with :30 or so in the 4th quarter with the game tied. Lloyd's call was to run the ball between the hash marks call a timeout and go for the win. The win came in overtime because of a botched pat. I was so frustrated that they wasted so much clock playing it safe.

With 2 time outs I thought Hoke was going to call a run play to get the ball to the middle of the field or the right hash and call timeout giving Gibbons a chance at the tying field goal. Hoke had them take a shot at the endzone when a fg would have tied it. I understand that Gibbons has not been good and that probably weighed heavily into the "bold" decision. I really appreciate the guts to go for it. Very reminiscent of a bold 4th & 1 decision 20 years ago by coach Moeller.

In the press conference Hoke said "You play to win."

I like it!

Go Blue!



September 11th, 2011 at 1:51 AM ^

My dad brought up the comparison between Lloyd and Brady. 

Lloyd would have called for a running play tonight up the middle to make for a better angle on a field goal.  He never would have tried for a shot in the end zone. 


September 11th, 2011 at 1:56 AM ^

We got a nice result but going for it there is still a dumb call.  ND just wasn't smart enough to tell their D to tackle receivers in the endzone before the ball gets there if there's ANY possibility of a completion. 


September 11th, 2011 at 2:03 AM ^

Completely disagree. When you have little business being in a position to begin with, coaches often feel it's more incentive to roll the dice and go for it all rather than sit on your good fortune.

As WH alluded to, Hoke is more Mo than Carr and I say thank god for that.



September 11th, 2011 at 1:18 PM ^

I don't understand what you're suggesting.  If ND had tackled our receivers in the endzone, where everyone in the stadium knew the ball was going, there's no way the refs would have let it go.  All the moreso because they'd made pass interference a point of emphasis all game. 

It's a fine call as long as you have faith that your QB can count down the seconds in his head and know when to get rid of it.  ND's own TD right before only took 6 seconds off the clock, and it was a longer throw.


September 11th, 2011 at 2:01 AM ^

In the after-glow of the game, I don't know if I'd make this distinction.  Carr coached the only NC I've been alive for.  He was a winner as well.   I'm not taking anything away from Coach Hoke, I think he is tremendous.  My 10 year old son was tearfully jumping with joy at the end of the game, and hugging everyone in the room.  I told him he has witnessed one of the greatest moments in Michigan football history and I believe that.  I have officially consumed all the Kool-aid I can keep down.   

We had break-downs just about everywhere you can have breakdowns on a football team tonight.  No one quit.  There was no quit in that team.  Kovacs, Denard, BWC, Woolfolk, Roundtree, everyone stepped up, everyone played as a team.  And while I don't think we'll win the NC this year or next year, we are believing again.  



September 11th, 2011 at 2:23 AM ^

But Lloyd Carr was signing autographs in the Nissan "Drive for the Heisman" tent across the way from the stadium, and he had a line at least 100 people long. You've gotta be a helluva coach to command that kind of following four years after retirement.


September 11th, 2011 at 9:16 AM ^

Carr's play style, game management and coordinators while not always popular did bring home a national championship and five big ten rings. Pretty sure he did that as the coach and representitive of the football team.


September 11th, 2011 at 11:26 AM ^

To be fair check out the budget for the coach and staff during the Carr years.  Dollar for dollar we got a hell of a return.  The didn't bitch and they didn't send out their reps to stir up other job offers to get attention and increases.



September 11th, 2011 at 2:25 AM ^

Not sure we know yet what Hoke would really do, clearly, he rightly, has zero trust in our kicking game is coaching accordingly.  In the presser he hinted that he might have taken a second shot at the endzone if that pass was incomplete.


September 11th, 2011 at 2:28 AM ^

TBH, I thought that was Sun Tzu kung fu.  If we don't score on that play he kicks the field goal.  HOWEVA, its good to keep the Luke Fickells of the world not knowing what to expect at the end of a close game.


September 11th, 2011 at 10:57 AM ^

Honestly if we had Rivas on the roster, who was pretty much automatic inside the 30, I'd be screaming for us to center the ball and kick.  

Given our level of kicking through, risking a shot into the endzone was worth it.

Bando Calrissian

September 11th, 2011 at 2:33 AM ^

Who gives a crap what we think Lloyd would have called in that situation?  We went for the win.  And won.  It worked out.  Lloyd isn't the coach anymore.  He won plenty doing things his way, and it looks like Brady Hoke is on his way to doing the same.

And if Denard put up a duck pass that got picked off, or got sacked, or ran out the clock trying to find a receiver, there'd be a gazillion threads right now second guessing it.

It worked, we won, let's just celebrate it.  Albeit without talking, because my voice doesn't work anymore.


September 11th, 2011 at 2:48 AM ^

I like coach Carr, he coached a number of great teams and they were so good because of his leadership and I'm thankful for the years he was coach. He did however lack in one area and that was to be aggressive when there was a chance at playing it safe. There was a fear that Hoke would be that same way. I am thoroughly enjoying the guts of the playcall tonight going for it all.

Bando Calrissian

September 11th, 2011 at 2:50 AM ^

Can you tell with all certainty what Lloyd would have done there?  Tell me.  Can you?

Lloyd only has a literal handful of Big 10 championship rings, a National Championship ring, and a boatload of coach of the year trophies and other various accolades.

What more do you people want from him?  Another opportunity to chip away at his legacy with a thread like this?


September 11th, 2011 at 2:56 AM ^

One of the reasons why Hoke defers so heavily to his assistants is because he could afford to hire two of the best coordinators in football. Carr (and Rodriguez, for that matter) did not have the budget to hire top-notch assistants, so they hired coaches who were (essentially) cronies and yes-men. Brandon gave Hoke a generous budget to hire assistants, so he got two coordinators with long, independent track records of success (though Borges followed him from SDSU). 

Having said that, it's definitely apparent from the last playcall that Hoke's crunch time philosophy is fundamentally different from that of Carr. Hoke cut his teeth under Carr and has tremendous respect for him, but the two men seem very different (which, all due respect to Coach Carr, is a good thing).


September 11th, 2011 at 3:03 AM ^

I liked the call and thought it was a risk worth taking given how dangerous they had been moving the ball (unless you went into OT assuming they would turn it over again)

What was more interesting was in the post game where Hoke seemed mildly suprised that there were 8 seconds left.

And followed that up by saying that even if they had not completed the play he might have gone for the win again with 2 seconds left.


September 11th, 2011 at 4:28 AM ^

Well Lloyd had Griese going deep to Streets to beat WSU and win the NC.... so he went for it when he had too....

that said, I love Hoke and feel that he is a great coach to lead Michigan in this new era... he has that swagger, twinkle in his eye, is always respectful and delegates to his coordinators rather than meddling with them... good coach... once the talent gets back to Michigan levels on Defense... we will be a top 10 program again


September 11th, 2011 at 8:26 AM ^

It was a ballsy call, but I'm not going to say it embodieed/defined a coaching style beyond that Al Broges/Hoke thought it was the right call in the situation.  To compare the coaching proclivities of Moeller, Carr, RR, and Hoke doesn't really point to much beyond the reality that coaching is very difficult and sometimes you have to make tough decisions.