Debate proposition: Dantonio is the best coach in the B!G.
I'm sure many negs are due this OP, but I just watched the MSU game and when I think of this:
-3-9
-lost best their WR and several contributors due to scandal
-are along with M, the youngest team in the nation
-have objectively, factually, worse talent than any of the league elite, including us
-are playing walk ons at key positions
-had a terrible recruiting year yet are playing freshmen
-beat us at home and just beat PSU, another team with far superior talent to them...
I can't come to any other conclusion than the title of this post. I am all Harbaugh, and I think our future still is brighter than most in the league. I wouldn't want any other coach for Michigan. But damn IMO this is hard to refute. But I'm wide open to counter arguments. Have any?
November 5th, 2017 at 11:44 AM ^
Except for PSU, OSU hasn't beeten anyone with a pulse.
November 5th, 2017 at 11:45 AM ^
Except for PSU, OSU hasn't beeten anyone with a pulse.
November 5th, 2017 at 6:39 PM ^
I would argue that PSU had far more luck in that game than OSU. By yardage totals, Ohio State completely dominated Penn State.
November 5th, 2017 at 9:31 AM ^
November 5th, 2017 at 11:35 AM ^
People continue to but too much emphasis on recruiting rankings put together by journalists. l think the biggest misconception about Michigan State is they don't have as much talent as other top teams.
November 5th, 2017 at 11:53 AM ^
isn't it weird some of the most marquee B1G wins he's had have come during downpours?
November 5th, 2017 at 12:05 PM ^
Bo always used to defend his three yards in a cloud of dust running offense on the BIG Ten's weather conditions.
November 5th, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^
Bo always used to defend his three yards in a cloud of dust running offense on the BIG Ten's weather conditions.
November 5th, 2017 at 2:04 PM ^
November 5th, 2017 at 6:32 PM ^
November 5th, 2017 at 7:41 PM ^
November 5th, 2017 at 8:37 PM ^
People are emo as hell about the youngest team in America not being one of the top two teams in the B1G this year. It's really easy to forget that Dantonio went 6-7 in year 3.
November 6th, 2017 at 12:52 AM ^
Michigan State is pretty young as well. According to Phil Steele's 2017 Experience Chart, they are actually the 2nd least experience team (129/130) in the country when factoring eligibility and returning production. Michigan came in at 127th out of 130th.
From a talent standpoint, MSU is objectively less talented, and is starting a handful of walk-ons to plug the holes from all their offseason transgressions.
Every metric says that MSU should have been heading towards another 3-5 win season, and yet here they sit at 7-2 with two ranked wins against Michigan and Penn State.
November 6th, 2017 at 1:28 AM ^
Stuff happens when young teams play, and that's amplified by awful weather and a backup QB. I'm not stressing even the slightest bit about the MSU game. Was it a bummer? Sure. Is it any kind of indication of Dantonio's superiority over Harbaugh? Nah. They've played 3 times and have had 2 extremely close games and one non-blowout but still comfortable win. That's what happens between good teams with good coaches.
November 6th, 2017 at 1:11 PM ^
But you are only looking at UM vs MSU games. Look at what Dantonio has done in the other 11 games on the schedule and it is great. In the last 8 years he is 3-3 against OSU and has won 3 big ten championships.
November 7th, 2017 at 2:54 PM ^
I'm confused by the point you're making. Is it that Dantonio is great? I agree, he's an outstanding coach. He was also 6-7 in his third year as HC at MSU. If we're looking at his "last 8 years," then we're comparing the time in which his program was already established to the time that Harbaugh is just getting started at Michigan. For Dantonio:
- Year 1: 7-6 with losses to Michigan and OSU
- Year 2: 9-4 with a blowout loss to OSU and a win over the worst Michigan team in modern history.
- Year 3: 6-7 with no OSU game and an overtime victory against possibly the second worst Michigan team in modern history.
Dantonio is an outstanding coach, but he didn't get there overnight. He had demonstrably worse success than Harbaugh at this stage in his MSU career.
November 8th, 2017 at 12:23 PM ^
This is not a realistic comparision. The rebuilding job Dantonio faced at MSU was much more challenging that the one Harbaugh was dealt when accepting the job here.
November 8th, 2017 at 12:41 PM ^
This is true, and Harbaugh won 10 games his first two seasons before experiencing a similar, though maybe (hopefully?) smaller dip.
November 6th, 2017 at 1:06 PM ^
Because it can't be supported by any actual metrics or data or more importantly on field results...
Dantonio is playing for his 4th big ten title in 8 years on saturday. He is also playing for a winning record against OSU in that same time period. When was the last time Michigan as a program did that?
November 7th, 2017 at 2:42 PM ^
Why the f you keep bringing up the last 8 years and the Michigan program history. This isn't about the last god damn 8 years. It's about JH vs. MD.
Compare JH's last 8 years of coaching against MD's last 8 years of coaching. I'd take JH all day.
November 7th, 2017 at 3:06 PM ^
Really convenient to compare his "last 8 years" rather than his first three years, eh? That comparison would look pretty favorable to JH.
November 7th, 2017 at 3:35 PM ^
Bingo!
November 7th, 2017 at 10:05 PM ^
Dantonio won the B1G in year 4, so lets see what happens next year.
November 8th, 2017 at 11:49 AM ^
I am all for this take!
November 8th, 2017 at 1:32 PM ^
1st 3 years was a long time ago. Aren't both of these coaches probably better today than they were a decade ago? I think they are both great not good coaches. Dantonio took over a dumpster fire at a program that doesn't have the same resources as Michigan does, he built that program from nothing. Harbaugh took over a falteriing program, that was stacked with NFL players though and that has as much resources as any in the country.
It's comparing apples to oranges.
Here's a difference between the 2 right now, Dantonio has had his system in place for over a decade, Harbaugh for not quite 3 years, Dantonio simply has a more mature program right now.
Where are these programs headed? Well, I think both are headed forward and in all honesty, the game with MSU next year will probably be for the defacto Big Ten Title as I think us and them will be the 2 favorites next season. Both extremely young. and both return most of thier key pieces. Lewerke is the wild card to me, kid looks like he could be a Heisman candidate next season, if he continues to progress MSU could be scary good next season. We need Peters to develop to be at least half as good as Lewerke.
November 7th, 2017 at 3:45 PM ^
MD does a good job of getting the most out of his players, last year being an outlier. He seems to be very good at game prep and instills a mindset of preparedness that yields some lucky ball bounces consistently.
November 5th, 2017 at 9:19 PM ^
In other words, DISCUSS?
November 7th, 2017 at 9:21 PM ^
I think he is because he gets the most out of his players. He is a very effective recruiter because he is an excellent evaluator of talent. He also does a good job of keeping his team focused throughout a season and he enjoys the loyalty of his assistants, another sign of a good coach, he wears well on people.
All of the things I cited explain his success at MSU. I have no answer for his 3-9 season last year but he clearly righted the ship quickly and may win another conference championship with an extremely young team that bodes well for the next couple of seasons.
Urban Meyer has the most impressive resume because of his national titles but I think it can be said of Dantonio that he can beat you with his guys and he could also beat you with your guys, he is just better.
November 7th, 2017 at 10:43 PM ^
I lol'd when I read this, he is inconsistent and doesn't run a clean program.