Debate proposition: Dantonio is the best coach in the B!G.

Submitted by wolverine1987 on November 4th, 2017 at 7:34 PM

I'm sure many negs are due this OP, but I just watched the MSU game and when I think of this:

-3-9

-lost best their WR and several contributors due to scandal

-are along with M, the youngest team in the nation

-have objectively, factually, worse talent than any of the league elite, including us

-are playing walk ons at key positions 

-had a terrible recruiting year yet are playing freshmen

-beat us at home and just beat PSU, another team with far superior talent to them...

I can't come to any other conclusion than the title of this post. I am all Harbaugh, and I think our future still is brighter than most in the league. I wouldn't want any other coach for Michigan. But damn IMO this is hard to refute. But I'm wide open to counter arguments. Have any?

Comments

Mgoczar

November 4th, 2017 at 7:37 PM ^

Absolutely no doubt about it.

I also think "quarters" defense is hard to beat. Why the hell aren't we playing that ? We'd be even more ferocious with that

Michigan_Mike

November 4th, 2017 at 7:49 PM ^

Yeah we are a good quarterback away from shredding that defense. In 2015 we were two overthrows away from a 3 score win. This year an offense that does anything at all probably wins that game. Those are our short comings not the schematic dominance of Michigan State. When the weather is good against teams that can spread to throw they get worked big time.

Michigan_Mike

November 4th, 2017 at 8:01 PM ^

No, but when the biggest weakness of your defense is the deep passing game bad weather plays into your hand. I don't see how that concept is hard to grasp.  The quarters defense has been consistently exploited by slot receivers running deep up the seam. The opposing team just needs to be able to execute that which is much more difficult in bad weather.

Mgoczar

November 4th, 2017 at 8:19 PM ^

Again

This is big10. Bad weather happens every year. I don't buy this bad weather crap. His Defense does well with low rated recruits and dares QB to throw which in college are rare songs a good gamble and his cbs hold the shit out of WRs. Also he finds a good QB. Stop with lewerke sucks stuff; he makes plays at critical time more so than not. That's the recipe for win

How can he field competent QBs (except last year) and we have been in Fing wilderness all these years. He plays to win. Style points don't count. Even I feel their OL holds ans line does unnecessary roughness they win with that without any repricussions. We need to win and actually upset good teams which we haven't done in forever. Last year we didn't really upset any teams.

Everyone should ask this of themselves: would you not have their record right now ? Losing to ND and beating PSU. I would

I really really hate MSU.

BoFlex

November 4th, 2017 at 7:58 PM ^

...and yet, it seems like Dantonio has no issue finding a "good quarterback" pretty much every season. Dantonio started with Hoyer who was a holdover from John L. Smith, and since then has pretty much moved seamlessly to Cousins, Cook, and now Lewerke.

3 years in and 8 scholarship QBs later, Harbaugh is still trying to find a stable presence in that position group.

Doc Mango Gibbs

November 4th, 2017 at 10:10 PM ^

He actually broke his leg 8 games into last season.  And I love how 3-9 was the most disastrous season in Michigan football history, but for MSU it's just excused as a slight bump in the road.  Your argument sucks. 

UncleLeo

November 4th, 2017 at 10:03 PM ^

First of all, Rudock was a stable presence. Speight was a stable presence. Peters will hopefully be a stable presence.... 

Second, where are you getting 8 scholarship QB's? Even if you include the two commits who aren't on campus (or actually signed) yet AND grad transfer Jake Rudock AND now tight end Zach Gentry, I only get 7.

BoFlex

November 4th, 2017 at 10:14 PM ^

Morris, Speight, O'Korn, Rudock, Gentry, Peters, McCaffery, and I'm assuming you forgot Malzone existed like the majority of the fanbase.

Rudock was fine, and probably the best of the bunch, but also keep in mind that Rudock didn't really "turn it on" until the last 4-5 games of the 2015 season with 845 of those yards coming against Rutgers and Indiana.

mastodon

November 4th, 2017 at 10:36 PM ^

if Harbaugh replaced Speight with Peters, Michigan would be controlling their own destiny for a BIG East title.  As of halftime of Minnesota game, Peters looks pretty legit.  Hindsight and all blah blah, but Harbaugh should have known enough.  Sitting on Peters cost Michigan a title shot.

mastodon

November 5th, 2017 at 7:10 AM ^

Meant his performance last week and up to that point.  JOK is not playing any more is he.  If Peters played against MSU, I think we win, and would be in the division driver's seat.  I love Harbaugh, but it's fair game to question why we endured increasingly pathetic QB play with Peters on the bench - acknowledge the small sample size, but again, he's starting now isn't he.

BassDude138

November 4th, 2017 at 7:55 PM ^

Arguably would be the best answer. Meyer has won National Championships. Yes Dantonio has had his number a bit in the B1G, but he isn't going to be able to coach MSU up to a level where they knock off a Bama or Clemson in the playoffs.

Not to discredit what they've accomplished since he's been there as they say you make your own luck, but it truly is unbelievable how that team always seem to have things go their way in big games. As a Michigan fan I feel like anything that could possibly go wrong, will. I just keep waiting for the team to be good enough to hold on despite that. MSU never seems to be great, yet somehow everything always falls into place and next thing you know they are in the driver seat.

MindlessChaos

November 5th, 2017 at 6:34 AM ^

Dantonio has never had the athletes Meyer has always had...  Dantonio only gets 1 elite athlete every couple of years...  OSU/Bama/Clemson have been getting classes full of them every year...   The difference is that everyone outside of Bama is unable to develop players consistently and they are all prone to overconfidence or being underprepared.  Saban and Dantonio bring a bit of the NFL into their program in regards to how they develop players and they have certain expectations which are higher than most places.  Basically this, Saban gets 5* recruits to come in and fight and claw to get better like they are all 3*s... They are hungry...Dantonio gets the actualy 2* and 3* with chips on their shoulder and then develops them excellently so they outperform the standard 4* and 5* B1G team...

However the similarity to Saban is why Bama is Kryptonite barring an offensive change at MSU...  Saban does what Dantonio does, with a much higher floor and ceiling for basically every player on his roster...  Every other "Elite" school can catch lightning in a bottle and ride that to a National Championship, But BAMA and MSU are consistently good (at the levels they are at) because their development of recruits and their mindset/attitudes.

BassDude138

November 4th, 2017 at 7:55 PM ^

Arguably would be the best answer. Meyer has won National Championships. Yes Dantonio has had his number a bit in the B1G, but he isn't going to be able to coach MSU up to a level where they knock off a Bama or Clemson in the playoffs.

Not to discredit what they've accomplished since he's been there as they say you make your own luck, but it truly is unbelievable how that team always seem to have things go their way in big games. As a Michigan fan I feel like anything that could possibly go wrong, will. I just keep waiting for the team to be good enough to hold on despite that. MSU never seems to be great, yet somehow everything always falls into place and next thing you know they are in the driver seat.

DrMantisToboggan

November 4th, 2017 at 8:22 PM ^

“Maybe” the best coach. Just like Dantonio and Harbaugh are “maybe” the best coach. Maybe is pretty clearly the operative word there. I think this thread is an overreaction, and I also think that Dantonio is a very fine coach. We are a week removed from them losing to a third tier BigTen team. I don’t think MSU’s win today proves anything about Dantonio’s standing that we didn’t already know.

Wolfman

November 4th, 2017 at 7:43 PM ^

in conference. Has much better talent than many think. L.J. is a good example. Probably best h.s. runner in nation as a sr., wanted by everyone in the country. But as a whole, agree, he plays with lesser talent. Does not treat his players like I would want as a HC. I would want my son to be punished if he pulled some shit, i.e., Bullough whose dad had to intervene to have him punished. But yes, yes, yes when it comes to game time. Had his kids prepared and if its close in last couple of minutes he is going to beat you. 

MindlessChaos

November 5th, 2017 at 6:58 AM ^

MSU kicked off Montez Sweat and Craig Evans despite them being on a fast-track to the NFL in the system... Several other players were basically shown the door due to their actions as well. Thiyo Lukusa preferred Ganga than complying with the rules.  Corely, Vance, and King were kicked off without having their day in court because of violating the team's standards. (despite them being 3 of them being contributers and basically future stars on the team)  Dantonio has gone seemingly light on a couple players but Bullough was not one of them. That was an incident outside the realm of the team, school, etc. and Bullough's family wanted him punished in football context. (It's still not public what exactly happened afaik) 

You could make a case Dantonio was light on Rucker or Glenn WInston or players like that. (Rucker had off the field punishment and such but was allowed to play right away)  Winston was given a second chance where some would not have given it. Normally Dantonio tries to give everyone a second chance but if you don't take advantage and shape up you get shipped off.