The Death Penalty in College Football
Given what we've seen from OSU, and also with today's news about The "U", college football fans are faced with a major question; Should the death penalty ever be used in college football? Given the complete devastation that it caused for SMU, will it ever be used again?
August 18th, 2011 at 3:44 AM ^
hey, don't knock it... wasn't the Casey Anthony lawyer a Miami alum?
August 17th, 2011 at 12:53 PM ^
I can't speak for anybody else, but I read the entire article. It's very damning, in no small part because of all of the corroborating evidence. There are credit card bills, financial statements, and numerous corroborating witnesses. There are also photographs.
August 17th, 2011 at 1:15 PM ^
I think the Yahoo Sports site on the U scandal is up to a small book. There's the main article, an article on each and every player/coach they can corroborate, plus additional follow-on articles, like "Why Miami is Trouble" that the Michigan/Miami grad may want to read:
Most damning, however, is the Miami administration allowing Nevin Shapiro into its world and then never kicking him out.
Just this year Ohio State was able to avoid a lack of institutional control charge by arguing only then-head coach Jim Tressel knew of violations within the program....
Even by the loose standards the NCAA allows, it doesn’t seem plausible Miami could make that claim with Nevin Shapiro. This wasn’t the case of just one action or one relationship with a coach, Shapiro says he dealt with seven different football and basketball coaches, regularly took them out to dinner and strip clubs and even loaned one $5,000.
...Shapiro had been honored by the school on the field during games and taken in action from the Canes sideline. He had access to practices. He twice led the team onto the field and once flew to a road game on the team charter.
When Miami was looking for a replacement for head coach Larry Coker after the 2006 season, Shapiro met with Shalala and offered not to just coach the team for free, but to personally pay $1 million a year for the nation’s best offensive and defensive coordinators.
August 17th, 2011 at 7:45 AM ^
This Fall: Miami vs. osu---- Loser gets the death penalty!
August 17th, 2011 at 8:43 AM ^
While these violations are egregious if true, the NCAA won't call for the death penalty, even if worse crimes end up surfacing.
It's unfortunate, because I see these types of scandals increasing in frequency in the current climate of out-of-control boosters and win-at-all-costs coaches. At the end of the day, these transgressors have no reason to believe that the NCAA will actually come back with any punishment that approaches the severity of the crime. Until a program gets hammered again in the manner of an SMU, you'll see these scenarios continue to play out every season.
August 17th, 2011 at 8:57 AM ^
The NCAA President Mark Emmert was just on Mike and Mike and he made it sound like the Death Penalty wasn't off the board as a penalty. He sounds pretty serious about cleaning up these problems as evidenced by the meeting last week with college presidents. They are going to summarize his comments after the break.
August 17th, 2011 at 11:48 AM ^
Or there won't be an NCAA in the not too distant future. If they don't hand out any sanctions after the Auburn, Ohio State and Miami scandals, they'll lose any credibility they have left.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:06 AM ^
Absolutely, positively not.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:06 AM ^
Accidental double post
August 17th, 2011 at 9:08 AM ^
Was listening to Bill King this morning, and a caller brought up an interesting point. He asked Bill if there was any way the NFL could get involved such that players involved in the execution of major violations would suffer pro-active penalties via the NFL. In other words, creating an NFL environment where college players expecting to go to the next level would think twice before committing college violations.
Bill was adamant that it would never happen. That the NFL is only interested in talent that can take teams to the Superbowl, irrespective of player character or previous troubles. And barring some kind of legal requirement, the NFL will always stay out of NCAA business.
p.s. He used Pac Man Jones as an example.....
August 17th, 2011 at 9:23 AM ^
I wouldn't set foot in Sun Life Stadium on September 17th.
August 17th, 2011 at 10:05 AM ^
August 17th, 2011 at 10:47 AM ^
The Allegation Denial Bowl (Sponsored by Chico's Bail Bonds)
August 17th, 2011 at 12:18 PM ^
The Poisoned Honey Bowl
Dirt vs. Soil
Freshwater Cheaters vs. Saltwater Cheaters
The Smoking Gun Bowl
August 17th, 2011 at 12:30 PM ^
Loser gets to divide by zero in the center of their campus.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:33 AM ^
Whether it's with Miami or the next school, eventually the NCAA will get tired of the same rules being broken across college football and one school will be hit with the hammer. With the amount of schools that are thumbing their nose at the system, whether it be recruiting violations or gifts given to athletes of the teams, the punishments will increase in severity until the death penalty is the only option left. I could also see someone in the ncaa realizing this and saying that they want to stop it/severely slow it down before they waste the next 5 to 10 years dealing with individual cases, and they will proceed to give the death penalty to the next school or just give it to Miami.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:46 AM ^
Bilas is saying the NCAA as a whole is broken
http://twitter.com/JayBilas/statuses/103812537098842112
""Deterrence" doesn't work. Penalties don't stop this. We've had death penalty, TV ban, firing all along. Need a principle-based structure."
August 17th, 2011 at 10:52 AM ^
Right that the system is broken, wrong that penalties won't work. The thing with punishment like the death penalty is that it only works as a deterrent if you're willing to use it, and do from time to time.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:45 AM ^
I think if they do issue the death penalty down in Miami it won't hurt them as bad as it did SMU. There are too many good players in Florida for them not to recover.
August 17th, 2011 at 10:06 AM ^
Texas isn't exactly devoid of talent either.
August 17th, 2011 at 11:12 AM ^
While it might not set Miami back 20 ish years as it did SMU it would still cause problems.
First with the scholarship losses that SMU had that drastically cuts down your roster and you need to spend a while getting back up to a decent two deep.
Second you probably would not be able to pull in a top rate coach right away and might have to live with what you can get.
Third FSU and Florida would absolutely gain an advantage in recruiting in Florida while Miami is hurt and if FSU/Florida can pull of some championships in that time period its just a bigger recruiting pitch for them.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:48 AM ^
I think this new incident in Miami may also cause the NCAA to hit OSU with steeper penalties, because now they are looking at a similar situation, and they will want to stop the bleeding.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:53 AM ^
I would hope you're right, but lately, and really for a long time, the NCAA has been mending broken limbs with masking tape and stopping bleeding with wetnaps.
August 17th, 2011 at 11:16 AM ^
I am actually worried this might make OSU get off easier.
After a while of denying OSU basically admitted the lying and problems to try and gain favor with the NCAA. Given the fact that they might not view the problem as one thing (so far no other official NOA mentioning stuff beyond the tats and TP/JT) and the fact that its more of a public perception that the NCAA needs to come down hard to avoid this in the future and not look pathetic they might just hammer Miami hard since that is the most recent program in the public's sights (and from the sound of it worse transgressions that OSU).
I don't know if OSU will get hit harder, but as long as they don't get off easier than what it seemed they would get everything should be fine.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:54 AM ^
From http://blog.allcanes.com/the-beast-yahoo-drops-shapiro-bomb
"Back to UM at 6am tomorrow, where I half expect Coach Golden to be dressed as a clown and fired out of a cannon onto the practice field. It will be an absolute circus and it’s completely deserved. This is arguably the biggest scandal in college sports since SMU and that’s not just my take – that’s the stance of every national writer I’ve read this evening."
Seems like he has it in perspective. Rivals has the Canes 2012 class at #5 ATM. Wonder how that's going to shake out. You have to think they are going to make OSU's recruiting headaches seem pleasant.
August 17th, 2011 at 10:16 AM ^
I can see a massive cut in scholies, and no tv or bowls for a decade. Just a guess though.
August 17th, 2011 at 11:18 AM ^
If I were Miami, I would probably take the SMU death penalty package over a decade long TV/Bowl ban with massive scholarship reductions.
I think in today's environment, there is no shortage of hungry assistant coaches/MAC-esque/FCS/D2 coaches who would leap at the chance to coach even a crippled Miami post death penalty.
I think you can probably recruit lots of kids post death penatly fairly easily. Those recruits have the guaranteed option of playing early. Couple that with the fact that it's located in Miami, and I bet they recover in a few years.
Meanwhile, a TV/Bowl ban with lots of schollies gone would kill a program for lots of recruits. They might as well commit to a place like FIU and have a glimmer of hope to make a bowl.
August 17th, 2011 at 11:21 AM ^
Over on the right bar of the Robinson story. It contains detailed accounts, with photos, audio and bulleted lists of specific instances of improper benefits. This is impressive work by Yahoo!
August 17th, 2011 at 11:20 AM ^
simple solution...death penalty that is the only thing good enough for Miami. I dont care that they were not on probation at the time but they were put on probation for the exact same thing hence they obviously have not learned there lesson.
It needs to be used now, and it needs to be used quickly to stop all these scandals, I dont agree with Bilas all the time but he has it correct that the NCAA cannot be the prosecutor, jury, and judge.
The system is broken it needs radical fixes or they may as well just pay the godamn players and we can have 2 professional leagues.
August 17th, 2011 at 12:24 PM ^
Death Penalty = lose in $ for the NCAA.
TV Ban = lose in $ for NCAA.
Major University corruption = NCAA doesnt see a fucking thing.
August 17th, 2011 at 12:12 PM ^
After ex-Miami AD and infractions committee chairman Paul Dee's statements regarding the USC case, the NCAA is backed into a corner here. They will have to give YTM the death penalty to avoid the appearance of hypocrisy.
Of course, one would think that they would give THE Ohio State University a severe penalty to avoid the appearance of hypocrisy, too, but they have been successful at keeping the conflict of interest low-profile.
August 17th, 2011 at 12:21 PM ^
Except in the blogosphere. #superiormorality
August 17th, 2011 at 12:55 PM ^
i agree we'll never see another death penalty. And probably not a TV ban. Nowadays, it's simply too unfair to the cheaters' opponents. Can you imagine FSU-Miami not being on TV?
In this case, USC-like penalties are not enough.
August 17th, 2011 at 1:07 PM ^
Just thinking outside the box a little, how feasible do you guys think this punishment could be: Force the offender to move X number of home games to away games.
The intent would be to take the revenue away from the offender. It might be a little bit of a logistical mess trying to make availability in the stadiums for the opponents, but a neutral site could always be a possibility.
I'm thinking there must be some other creative ways to hit them in the pocketbooks. NCAA doesn't seem willing to do a TV blackout, but you could at least physically move the games.
August 18th, 2011 at 12:53 AM ^
I keep hearing this as a solution from various sources. I think its a fine idea, but it would have to be levied at least a year in advance to avoid all hell breaking loose. I've booked flights and lodging for me and my son for the two games we're attending and I would be appropriately outraged if those games were moved elsewhere before the season started.
August 18th, 2011 at 4:12 AM ^
Let's not forget that the SMU case wasn't just about SMU.
The 80's were an incredibly dirty time in college football and there were a ton of shady programs coming from out of nowhere to suddenly become powers (SMU, Miami and Florida State being the most notable). The SWC in particular was widely known as the most corrupt conference in the nation, it's probable that in 70's and 80's every team in the league was cheating. SMU made the mistake of getting caught twice and they deserved what they got. But make no mistake, they were being made an example of. Now, in an era where Alabama, USC, North Carolina, Ohio State, Auburn and Oregon have all been hit with allegations over the past few years, they might be willing to make an example again. I don't think the death penalty is in play, but they'll do everything but including bowl and TV bans that will keep the U down for a decade plus
August 18th, 2011 at 6:47 AM ^
Scholarship losses + postseason ban should do it. TV ban is not lucrative money-wise and not realistic in this day and age
August 18th, 2011 at 4:12 AM ^
Let's not forget that the SMU case wasn't just about SMU.
The 80's were an incredibly dirty time in college football and there were a ton of shady programs coming from out of nowhere to suddenly become powers (SMU, Miami and Florida State being the most notable). The SWC in particular was widely known as the most corrupt conference in the nation, it's probable that in 70's and 80's every team in the league was cheating. SMU made the mistake of getting caught twice and they deserved what they got. But make no mistake, they were being made an example of.
Now, in an era where Alabama, USC, North Carolina, Ohio State, Auburn and Oregon have all been hit with allegations over the past few years, they might be willing to make an example again. I don't think the death penalty is in play, but they'll do everything but including bowl and TV bans that will keep the U down for a decade plus
August 18th, 2011 at 1:23 PM ^
People tend to compare SMU and Miami like SMU wasn't a major program the time they got hit... when they got hit they were competing for national championships and the SWC was at all time high. I seriously don't believe Miami won't get the Death penalty for the one and only reason that they wouldn't survive it. Two years with out Miami football would absolutely hinder the ACC and talk of Expansion might even grow MORE rampid with teams from the BiG 10, SEC, and Big East trying to Pouch ACC teams... Miami deserves the death penalty if these allegations are at least a third true and by all indictations and all these nervous interviews former players, coaches, and agents are giving its prolly not even the whole story...
Its a shame to see such an Iconic brand like the "U" tarnished... but it they never cheated they prolly wouldn't have become a brand to begin with...
August 18th, 2011 at 1:32 PM ^
This Is the Best news in the world for Central Florida and South Florida... I know they grinning in the chairs... ALL THOSE RECRUITS!!!!!!