Nieme08

June 7th, 2010 at 2:06 PM ^

if he qualifies and goes to Florida State that would be a serious kick in the nuts... We can probably thank Mark Snyder for this one

Erik_in_Dayton

June 7th, 2010 at 2:08 PM ^

Sam Webb did not say that Dorsey would not play for U of M, as the article claims he did.  He said that he is not optimistic that Dorsey will make it. He guessed that FSU would be another possibility for Dorsey...This article takes Sam's hypothesizing and treats it as fact. 

WolvinLA2

June 7th, 2010 at 2:07 PM ^

I don't know why this is bad news.  If he's qualified to attend FSU, doesn't that make it more likely that he can come to UM?  If they said JUCO was the only other option, then we're probably out.  But he signed an LOI to us, and if he passes the NCAA Clearinghouse, the ball is in our court.  This doesn't sound like bad news to me.

Erik_in_Dayton

June 7th, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^

Sam Webb has said a couple of times now that it might be possible for Dorsey not to be admitted to Michigan for non-academic reasons, which confuses me if those reasons are the sames things that we all heard about when he first signed...Good point about the LOI.  Michigan would have to release him before he could go to FSU, correct? 

Magnus

June 7th, 2010 at 2:12 PM ^

The reason it could be bad news is that if he attends an FBS school, that means he's qualified by the Clearinghouse . . . but that Michigan's admissions department denied him entry to U of M.  That means that Michigan might have wasted time - and a scholarship reservation - for a kid that wouldn't ever play for Michigan.

I said this in a thread last week, but if we're going to recruit kids, then we should admit them.  The decision to allow him into the school should come BEFORE the letter of intent, not after.  Otherwise, Rodriguez is wasting his time and/or admissions is making Rodriguez play with one hand tied behind his back.

Magnus

June 7th, 2010 at 2:22 PM ^

The coaches really liked Witty, actually.  He just couldn't get it done to get admitted.  It's kind of insulting to say he was only recruited because of Denard, because Witty's actually a good football player. 

Now you might be able to say that about J.D. Pride, a good friend of Seantrel Henderson's . . .

Nieme08

June 7th, 2010 at 2:29 PM ^

you're right, I worded it incorrectly.  If i remember correctly they were considered to be a package deal though, and as much as they liked Witty (and I liked him too), we still benefited even though he didn't make it in. apologies 

bdwiese

June 7th, 2010 at 3:56 PM ^

He actually DID get it done but his test scores were flagged by UM admissions due to the jump in qualifying score and it was deemed he was "too much of a risk" to admit.  This was the first hard example of a certain "tightening" of academic standards that didn't exist in the Lloyd Carr era (Slocum anybody?).

So, somewhat similar to what has happened to Dorsey - UM coaches/AD convince admissions to allow them to offer a scholarship to a kid and allow the kid to sign a LOI, admissions set the criteria that need to be met (along with the Clearinghouse, obviously), kid meets the criteria and is qualified (according to Birkett), Michigan Admissions doesn't even wait for the process to finish before saying "you did what we asked you to do, but we changed our minds and no thanks".

What makes this one more troubling is all the nightmare PR Michigan and RRod had to go through and admissions still flips the script on a kid, despite fully knowing his background history when they agreed to allow him to sign a LOI and having the kid meet his obligations.  If he is qualified and goes to FSU, why would a Florida kid ever want to attempt to get into Michigan again?

Blue in Yarmouth

June 8th, 2010 at 8:14 AM ^

This has got to look bad to the future recruits. Add to it the fact that it has happened not once, but twice, and I think future recruits will see this as a BIG negative when being recruited by UM.

I am going to speak in generalities for a moment. Most (and I stress most) student athletes are not great academics. Most of the top tier athletes see their sports as their future and put most of their time and energy into that opposed to their studies. For this reason (and some others I'm sure) many of them scrape by through HS and only go to University so they can get into the professional ranks.

So you look at these top tier athletes, the ones everyone wants, and most (MOST) are of the variety that are scraping by in HS. They are sure to be qualified when it comes to the end of the year, but it will be close for many.

Why on earth would these guys even look twice at UM given the very recent history? I was one of these athletes in HS (though Hockey, not football). In Canada grades are essentially irrelevant because we play in the CHL and not university. However, my point is I was putting my money on becoming a pro athlete and therefore, let my studies go.

If I were in any of their positions (these top rated athletes with borderline grades) I wouldn't give UM the time of day regardless if they were my favorite school growing up or not. If these kids are qualified I can't see how UM admissions denying them admission is a good thing. I just can't fathom what they are thinking.

Again, I think this is going to cause many of these top rated recruits to look elsewhere in the future. I know I would in their circumstance.

Erik_in_Dayton

June 7th, 2010 at 2:16 PM ^

It seems downright bizarre to me to look at a kid's background, say he's okay to come if his grades are good enough, and then later say that his background makes him something less than Michigan material...I'm not saying, I should be clear, that this is what is happening, but that it seems like a possibility at all is strange. 

spacemanspiff231

June 7th, 2010 at 2:33 PM ^

....but it seems like you're implying that Rich Rod and the football program have something do with whether or not a player is admitted to the university.  That is untrue.  The admissions dept. has the final say on whether or not someone can be admitted to the university, and it is completely separate from anything having to do with the football program.  There is a fairly interesting take on it here:

http://gobluemichiganwolverine.blogspot.com/2010/06/mailbag-question-de…

bdwiese

June 7th, 2010 at 4:00 PM ^

I believe this is true...especially in cases where character issues or background history are involved (not saying I think Dorsey has character issues at all, FYI).

Admissions is 100 percent subjective once the minimum qualifications are met.

Magnus

June 7th, 2010 at 2:20 PM ^

These reports were surfacing prior to Dorsey's graduation, so they obviously weren't entirely based on his final transcripts.  Whatever's allegedly preventing him from getting into U of M must have something to do with test scores, personal conduct, or something else.

Wolv2004

June 7th, 2010 at 2:20 PM ^

...but I was admitted to UofM prior to my final transcript being available.  Shoot, I don't think any of my senior year grades were available when I received my acceptance letter.  It happened a decade ago, but if memory serves me correctly, I received my acceptance in November of my senior year.

MGoShoe

June 7th, 2010 at 2:47 PM ^

...accepted by a college or university really only has provisional acceptance pending submission and evaluation of final semester grades.  That fact is not even in the fine print of the acceptance letter.  It's one of the reasons why wait lists exist.

UMdad

June 7th, 2010 at 3:26 PM ^

I do remember that being in the acceptance letter, but I am sure it would take an absolute implosion to ever be excersized.  I have never heard of anyone having their status revoked because of tehir final semester grades.  I think wait lists are designed more for students who get accepted and then choose a different University (that never happens to UofM, of course).

MGoShoe

June 7th, 2010 at 3:35 PM ^

...are designed for both of these things.  And yes, these implosions do happen. 

A few months ago we went to a session for admitted students at the school my son will attend in the fall and the admissions director warned the kids that this clause is for real and that every year there are one or two students who fall off a cliff in their last semester. 

Tacopants

June 7th, 2010 at 4:11 PM ^

Depends on what you mean by absolute implosion.  Lots of stuff can happen between November/December and June.  Some kids get tremendous bouts of senioritis and their last semester grades drop like rocks.  There are other situations as well, but it is extremely, extremely rare.

WolvinLA2

June 7th, 2010 at 2:23 PM ^

Clearly any situation that doesn't have him playing for M this fall is bad news, but I meant that this isn't bad news in comparison to the previous thought that he wouldn't be eligible by the NCAA.  I would much rather for M to have the choice than not. 

I think a lot of kids don't have their grades wrapped up by LOI time, so that's probably not a good protocol you're suggesting.

WolvinLA2

June 7th, 2010 at 2:31 PM ^

But by that standard, we wouldn't have Justin Turner, Jeremy Gallon and who knows who else on our team because they weren't qualified yet in Feb.  And you'd still spend the year leading up to February recruiting players only to not send them an LOI come February.  It would be tough to maintain.

chitownblue2

June 7th, 2010 at 2:34 PM ^

BUT.

If this is true...

It means that Michigan's admissions is making their decision without his final semester grades, as his school is still in session. If that's the case, everything they know about him now, they knew about him back on signing day - in other words, they SHOULD have known on signing day that they wouldn't take him because, apparently, there isn't anything he can do this semester to change their minds, or they'd be waiting for his grades. If that's the case, they should have just said that.

MGoViso

June 7th, 2010 at 4:21 PM ^

I have no idea if U-M's admissions standards work like the NCAA Clearinghouse standards (except for being higher somehow), but the NCAA uses a "sliding scale" whereby you need a certain combination of GPA and scores. For (a pulled-out-of-my-ass) example, maybe a 2.0 and 14 ACT aren't good enough, but a 2.0 + 18 ACT or 3.0 + 14 ACT are.

bdwiese

June 7th, 2010 at 4:27 PM ^

two things:

1) this isn't grades related (that will be verified soon, but Birkett's statement backs up premium sites' statements) but is instead "something else".

2) there are only two programs in the country that hold their athletes to a higher standard than the NCAA clearinghouse standards and Michigan is not one of them:  Stanford and I believe NW.

So it looks like a major decision needs to be made - do we want to win games and be a football powerhouse again which requires at least some risk, or do we want to publically take a holier than thou approach while privately keeping the same admissions standards that all but 2 D1 programs do and as a result field decent but not great teams?