Daniel Horton Rips Beilein

Submitted by MgoblueAF on January 12th, 2011 at 1:22 AM
Per FB, below are some interesting posts from Daniel Horton's FB page:

On MBB: "Man they are not a good team. Don't make excuses for that mess bro. Kansas got bored when Michigan went zone and let them back in the game. It's time for a change in bball too. The talent difference in recruiting is ridiculous. He been there 4 years.....why is his team still "young"?"

"I feel that....my problem is I hate when coaches think they can recruit the same way they did at smaller schools......by that I mean recruit 3 star high school guys and think your coaching and player development will make them great players. You can't do that at Michigan and expect to win. Amaker recruited on a national level and recruited big time players. Beilein has too much confidence in himself. Coach K goes and gets the best....always has. Even when he first started and they were bad. When I watch both football and bball the level of talent is frustrating. I shouldn't be the last Micky Ds all american Michigan has had.....I graduated high school damn near 10 years ago!!"

"And to prove my point when I tell people Bill Martin didn't give a shit about the bball program he gave this guy an extension to 2015 before he retired.....lmao. his record is waaaay worse than tommy amakers at the same point. You can't even tell they made the tourney two years ago. Amaker took over a program in worse shape and turned it around and made the job attractive. Beilein came in and didn't even try to keep amakers top 10 recruiting class michigan had except for Manny. You can't win if you don't have players....I don't care how good a coach you are. And UM deserves better!!"

Your thoughts..? Anyone remember his domestic assault case where he choked his gf and embarrassed our school?? I don't believe there's a lot of room for him to critique in any regard.

Comments

MgoblueAF

January 12th, 2011 at 2:12 AM ^

To his credit, Amaker holds a slight advantage in winning percentage after his 4th yr at Michigan (.524 vs .500). Also, that tenure included having to overcome NCAA violation repercussions.
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<br>Then again, his strongest season only featured an NIT Championship. I'll take a 2nd round birth in the REAL tourney any day..

UMfan21

January 12th, 2011 at 2:08 AM ^

I will take Beileins 3 star guys who develop over Amakers 4 star guys who plateau any day.
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<br>Horton was the best player at UofM since Fisher, but he regressed on the court and made poor decisions off the court. Hardly the player we need spouting off about the program, but I guess that's what the Internet gives us...
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<br>Beileins team is young because Manny was ready for the pros, Cronin had a career ending injury, Benzing couldn't qualify, Grady chose football, and others like LLp and Wright couldn't hack it. This is the 3rd youngest team in the nation right now! I think they are playing great and will be a force next year.

mgoblue52

January 12th, 2011 at 2:16 AM ^

I agree with you that Beilein had a poor recruiting class when he just had Novak and Douglass, but do you not see the potential of our young talent in D-Mo and Tim Hardaway?  Sure, Beilein won at other schools with a bunch of Pittsnogles and Somtrycz type players, but he's definitely stepped up the recruiting this class and the next class.  I used to be a skeptic of his recruiting, but I see potential in the future.

 

As for Daniel Horton, I'm sad to hear him say that.  There was always so much promise in those young talented Amaker clubs but they always seemed to underachieve.  Ask Daniel Horton how the 2004-2005 season felt after they won the NIT in 2004.  Those teams were so disappointing because they had the talent, but they had 2000000 turnovers a game.

EZMIKEP

January 12th, 2011 at 2:22 AM ^

The kids play hard. The scheme can frustrate other teams at times but overall this systems will never be consistent enough to win the Big 10 on a regular basis. Meaning I doubt other than a really good run by a bunch of seniors this team isn't ever going to stack up against the big 10. JB isn't going to attract that talent level ever and even though I like our coach and players, I wont be sad if it ends sooner rather than later. We used to be a basketball school and it shouldnt take 20 years to become one again. It especially hurts because we handed the keys to the Caddilac over to to Sparty the second Izzo walked in the door. Talk about timing.

aaamichfan

January 12th, 2011 at 2:50 AM ^

Because we needed guards in this class. There were three developmental bigs in the last class, but it might take another year of weights until they're ready. It is necessary to land an elite big in the next class, though. 

All in all, I think we need to let Beilein build a stable program. Now that we are devoting a necessary amount of resources to the BBall program, we will start to see rapid improvement.

Kennyvr1

January 12th, 2011 at 2:20 AM ^

Til she was unconscious and was definitely blowed when he wrote this but he's not far off. If they don't go to the tourney this year then he better get canned. Especially if RR goes after 3 years.

Loukdogg

January 12th, 2011 at 7:26 AM ^

With this team?  Come on, people were doubting they could win 10 games all year after Manny left. I am not sold on Belien because I agree that he needs to recruit at a higher level.  However, the results this year show progress and John Belien deserves another 2 years to see if this will work. 

Rich Rod is a a good coach but the complete failure on Defense and Special Teams doomed him. 

Leaders_and_Best

January 12th, 2011 at 2:22 AM ^

With the exception of Zach Novak, how many 6' 3 -6' 5" white boys from Indiana and illinois can you recuit before you forget that Big Ten teams are supposed to be big.

Also, I guess never missing a free throw gives you the right to yell at a coach

marlon

January 12th, 2011 at 2:22 AM ^

Daniel Horton has some very valid points.  The people that don't see this are in denial, which isn't surprising seeing as some fans have become content watching a basketball program that rarely does anything spectacular, but also never gets into trouble with the NCAA.  Being an elite team and not getting into hot water with the NCAA aren't mutually exclusive, but you'd never know that observing the decisions Michigan's made with it's basketball program.

If Michigan wants to return to NCAA basketball's elite, it must fire John Beilein and hire someone who can recruit, retain, and coach elite talent.  Until that is done, the basketball program isn't going to get much better.

j-turn14

January 12th, 2011 at 2:29 AM ^

do not see how one of the ten youngest teams in the country could possible improve over the course of the next couple seasons. It would certainly take someone in denial to find potential in a team that has led two of the top 5 teams in the country with fewer than five mins to go while having significantly less experienced players than said top 5 teams.

seattleblue

January 12th, 2011 at 2:27 AM ^

As a general rule, I don't like past players saying negative things about the current players and/ or coach. If this was on his personal facebook, it's a bit different but privacy isn't what it used to be and you should be aware.
<br>I like Beilein and think he will have success, but I do think his criticism of michigan's recruiting is probably valid. I was around the athletic dept in the early 00s and there was definitely an attitude and complacency held by coaches that michigans name should recruit by itself. It's pretty much the Michigan man belief applied to recruits- Michigan should only consider kids that only want to go Michigan. It seems ok, but true blue chips will have other equally attractive options and need to be actively recruited. I didnt have much visibility into football or basketball, but in other sports i saw coaches take middle of the pack kids instead of going after a blue chip that they might have to work harder to land.
<br>To win big games and compete in championships, you need to land top blue chips in every class and occasionally sell Michigan to them

aaamichfan

January 12th, 2011 at 2:30 AM ^

Now that we are building the new player development facility, recruiting will improve in the near future. We could use another athletic big, but otherwise I don't think we can make a final evaluation of Beilein for at least two more years.

I really like Bacari Alexander and Lavall Jordan so far though. If Amaker had them as assistants, he might still be the coach.

One thing I'll agree with Horton about is Bill Martin. He didn't give a shit about the basketball program.

MrWoodson

January 12th, 2011 at 2:31 AM ^

Yeah, sure, because Horton has been at the games and in the locker room and "all in" for the MBB team since he left Ann Arbor. He is right about one thing -- MBB was ignored internally for years -- but it earned that by handing us the embarrassing Ed Martin fiasco. Michigan more or less gave the MBB the death penalty for most of a decade after firing Steve Fisher.

When it hired John Beilein, Michigan took the first concrete step toward restoring the MBB program to full Michigan varsity status. Last year was a disappointment, but this year is looking like we are back on track. As we begin to win more consistently, we will land better recruiting classes. If asked to pick between Daniel Horton and John Beilein, no question my vote goes to Coach Beilein. I appreciate everything Daniel Horton has done for UM, but I'm all in for Coach Beilein (and disappointed Daniel Horton is not "all in" for his alma mater too).

enlightenedbum

January 12th, 2011 at 2:35 AM ^

We've got an impressive 4* PG in the fold, what looks to be a highly talented slasher type in Hardaway and a top 100 guy and a second guy right on the edge last I saw.  Horford has potential once he has a year or two in the weight room and can physcially stand up to the bigs on the other teams in the conference.  I like what's going on, the kids who were here last year are better than they were (especially Morris).  Alexander seems to have done a fine job with Morgan who is holding his own especially on the defensive end.

I don't get the complaints.  He pulled off a miracle and got us to the tournament two years ago.  Last year was certainly a disappointment, but this team could be a second miracle in three years if they pull off one big home upset (OSU tomorrow or MSU?).  They should definitely make the NIT and be set up for a big year next year.  The need for instant success is driving me nuts around here.

Bando Calrissian

January 12th, 2011 at 3:11 AM ^

Daniel Horton likely would have played in an NCAA tournament in 2002-3.  That win streak they put together was one of the most fun runs I've ever had as a Michigan fan.  It was great.

Amaker's early years really can't be judged too negatively being that he was hamstrung by the self-imposed sanctions.

MgoblueAF

January 12th, 2011 at 2:48 AM ^

In Beilein's defense, he took over a program that hadn't made the NCAA tourney legitimately since 1989.  The money scandals extended from Chris Webber to Louis Bullock to Maurice Taylor.  While Amaker pulled in a couple bigger names, his 0 tourney appearances revealed that he couldn't utilize his team's potential.  Being away from the national spotlight for so long, Beilein has attempted to do the behind-the-scenes things that will entice bigger name recruits to come here...without being paid:  changing the arena's lighting for HDTV optimalization, building a state-of-the-art practice facility, and encouraging DB to increase the MBB budget.  He did pick up two players in this year's Rivals 150 (including 4-star Carlton Brundidge) and would have landed Trey Zeigler if he wasn't trying to save his Dad's job at CMU.

steviebrownfor…

January 12th, 2011 at 2:50 AM ^

If you fire JB it will be impossible to find a replacement.  JB is rediculously well respected and is more qualified a coach than anyone else that would potentially be available.

Beilein created basketball at WVU, which is in the Big East.  The Big East is a basketball conference, and he is used to competing with teams like Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, Villanova, etc...

John Beilein has forgotten more about basketball than Horton will ever know.

Bando Calrissian

January 12th, 2011 at 2:51 AM ^

I think Horton has some points here, but at the same time...  Amaker reached his ceiling. Nice guy, did a little bit with a lot of talent, but the problem was that talent never went anywhere.

Horton regressed.  Lester Abram got hurt every time someone breathed on him.  Courtney Sims is perhaps the only tennis-player-turned-big-man ever, not to mention he's probably the only big man ever to actually get smaller as his career progressed.  Chris Hunter's traitorous knee.  Petway never quite grasping that there were two ends of the court.  The list goes on and on and on.  

So much talent, but they were never developed into much of anything.  And you could show up to Crisler early and see why the team struggled so much with fundamentals, because layup lines turned into one-up slam dunk contests and guys chucking the ball like footballs.  It was worthless.

Tommy Amaker was a nice guy put into a program that was at its nadir.  He refused to promote the program, shied away from radio and television, recruited well but never delivered once they got to campus.  Perfect guy to weather the storm of the post-Ellerbe era, but nothing more, and nothing less.

SFBlue

January 12th, 2011 at 3:02 AM ^

All due respect Amaker/Horton, there is little room for criticism given that their biggest contribution was an NIT title, and Beilein had made the NCAA tournament.

dmgoblue08

January 12th, 2011 at 3:12 AM ^

but I'll just focus on recruiting. first, the knock on stu and zach is weird considering beilein had 3 weeks to assemble a class and as juniors they are an assets to a middle of the pack big10 team. they are the only upper classmen.

beilein since that time has pulled in top 100 players in morris, smotz, and next year with brundige. both vogrich and hardaway jr., were both top 150 recruits, and 2011 burke and 2012 robinson III are both fringe top 100 players.

snoopblue

January 12th, 2011 at 3:17 AM ^

He makes some valid points, but not in the right way. It's not Beilein's fault, he is just doing what he knows. The blame belongs to..Lee Bollinger and Mary Sue Coleman and the ADs Goss and Martin. I feel like it's hard to find the balance between the University (academia, research, etc.) and Athletics, and the past two decades the University administration and president haven't cared much about athletics. Martin did a fantastic job at the end of his tenure with facilities and fundraising but I think they gave Amaker a lot of time and made a safe hire with Beilein. They could have scooped up a younger coach from the Michigan area who would have been very risky, but he could have awoken the echoes of Michigan Basketball from decades ago. I think Rich Rodriguez getting fired is David Brandon changing the way the Athletic Department works (RESULTS) and even though he did a poor job with the coaching search, I think he is the right man to get the basketball team back to relevance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGm0nOnu1uM

Look at what we were. It is sad watching that and thinking how low we sank. Michigan WAS college basketball. We'll be back, I've always thought Beilein would be the coach to set the foundation for the next guy (cough what amaker was supposed to do cough) to come in and win big. Beilein is getting up there in age, so I don't think this would end in a bad way.

Horton was just, uh, misguided in the way he went about it. I'm sure Dave Brandon has an open door policy on former Michigan athletes, especially in revenue sports.

matty blue

January 12th, 2011 at 6:13 AM ^

i'm to the point where i just want our ex-players (football and basketball) to just shut the fuck up and go away.

and daniel horton is talking shit?  did daniel horton develop by one percent in his entire time here?  no, no he did not.  and neither did any other player under amaker.  everyone - including horton - was still making the same dumbassed turnovers and dumb shots as seniors that they were as freshmen.  quick, name one player who got better under amaker...other than the 2- and 3-stars that horton bitches about.

maybe horton is looking in the mirror and hates the fact that beilein is taking guys that wouldn't have sniffed horton's aau teams and turning them into better, more complete players than he ever was.

Desmonlon Edwoodson

January 12th, 2011 at 7:04 AM ^

I am looking forward to CB coming in next year, bringing a Horton-like game.  With that said, Horton needs to shut his mouth.  Beilein knows he has to recruit better, and this has been addressed by retooling his staff.  Amaker was able to put a TON of talent on the floor...He just didn't have clue 1 what to do with it.  There were a ton of issues with those teams...injuries, suspensions, and scheduling...If Bill Martin and TA had put any kind of quality opponents on the non-conference schedule they would have had a lot more chances to succeed.

UM Indy

January 12th, 2011 at 7:34 AM ^

Needs to shut up. Has he taken a look at Darius Morris? Highly rated recruit who already is a star and will only get better. I was at the Kansas game, we played like crap and took the #3 team in the country to OT. I can honestly say I'm very comfortable with the basketball program right now and have full confidence in JB.

bronxblue

January 12th, 2011 at 8:19 AM ^

So a guy who was a disappointing player almost a decade ago is knocking the program that he no connection with. This is why the whole Michigan Man crap needs to end - Horton is one, and I'm embarrassed to hear him speak.

Bosch

January 12th, 2011 at 8:21 AM ^

1.  He defended Amaker.  Decent recruitier.  Horrible coach.

2.  He thinks Beilein should have done more to retain Legion.  Nothing more to say about that.

3.  Why are you Facebook friends with Daniel Horton?