Corwin Brown - honest debate about coaching ability (no race this time)

Submitted by myrtlebeachmai… on February 3rd, 2011 at 11:19 PM

Ok, he's a great recruiter, but I think we've got that covered.

The race/demographic question is more than answered in the other post.

I want someone to tell me what I'm missing regarding his coaching abilty.  Who has he developed that makes him stand out?

NY Jets as DB coach 2004-2007 - their DB/S's have only improved since he left

ND - He was better IMO running the DC position (because of the recruiting/tying positions/people together) as he did in 2007.  He only took over DBs in 2008, and I don't remember ANY great secondary play from ND in that timeframe.  Shoot, of anything I remember  of us having success at all against them was due to taking advantage of their poor backfields.  I don't remember a single DB's name from ND (except for DB's named Rye, White, Wheat - they were all toast).  2009 he's back to multi-tasking with Asst HC, DC, and DB roles. 

Am I missing something?  If we're truly looking for a DB coach, is he even close to the best guy?  If we were short on the recruiting front AND needed the DB spot, sign him up, but I think it's no big miss otherwise.

 

Comments

GustaveFerbert

February 3rd, 2011 at 11:36 PM ^

try this

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=m_kYiT6ev_IC&pg=PA184&lpg=PA184&dq=michael+taylor+michigan&source=bl&ots=d9eGtNI8G9&sig=M7MJfuGQnTlln0G0OX7ZrIZ-c1Q&hl=en&ei=en9LTfmvOMP78AbUh4HADg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=michael%20taylor%20michigan&f=false

 

And if that does not work, google Michael Taylor and Michigan football and find the link to Jim C's book.  The chapter is called Michael Taylor where have you gone...Interesting that he admits he quit in a practice and threw interceptions on purpose.

 

 

Tater

February 4th, 2011 at 12:22 AM ^

And the next year, as a senior, he played while injured (lingering effects of torn proximal biceps and triceps tendons) in the OSU game and won on sheer willpower.  I think that gets him a pass for a bad error in judgment during practice one day as a junior.

Shit happens, players grow.  I'm not going to use that as an excuse to trash an ex-player for speaking his mind.  All of the bullshit that has happened the last few years has been dishonest and behind the scenes.  MT's opinion was delivered honestly and in the open.  If I have a choice, I'll take the latter.  

I don't know enough to agree or disagree with his opinion, but I'm not going to change what I think about his career in retrospect because I disagree with his present opinion.  That would be sooooo RCMB....

jmblue

February 3rd, 2011 at 11:40 PM ^

He's the total package - a Michigan Man* and black!  (Black Michigan Men are immune to charges of cronyism.)

 

*(We'll forget about everything he told recruits when he was at ND.)

 

the_white_tiger

February 4th, 2011 at 12:03 AM ^

I think you're closest to being correct in regards to this debate, people are overlooking the fact that he negatively recruited Michigan pretty badly when he was at Notre Dame. Maybe he wasn't contacted (allegedly) because he did that. Maybe he wasn't contacted because he's currently an assistant to a position coach. Maybe he wasn't contacted because Hoke and Mattison thought they had a better candidate already. I'm going to hazard a guess that the lack of contact between Hoke and Brown was not due to the fact he was black, and personally, I think hiring a black assistant coach over a white one because apparently his skin color helps him recruit better is racist and wrong.

BRCE

February 4th, 2011 at 1:58 AM ^

"People are overlooking the fact that he negatively recruited Michigan pretty badly when he was at Notre Dame."

He coached for a rival. Aggressive, successful recruiters don't say nice things about their rivals to recruits. It's business.

If we are THAT petty, and THAT stuck-up to blackball someone on those grounds, it should not be a mystery why Michigan athletics is in the shape that it is today.

 

SWFLWolverine

February 4th, 2011 at 9:05 AM ^

When are we going to deal with/accept the fact that actions have consequences? He did what he had to do for his job at ND. Great, if its true he was telling recruits that he would have gone to ND if he could have, then he was doing what he had to do. How about he give Brian Kelly that call and leave Hoke alone? If his goal was to eventually come back and coach at Michigan, then perhaps he should have considered that before trashing Michigan to recruits. It is possible to sell what ND has to offer without trashing another school. The "hustler" attitude that its acceptible for people to do what they got to do to get theirs before someone else beats them to it is sad. Its what this board rails against SEC schools for. For us to say we can overlook past indiscretions which demonstrate a lack of character because he is a great recruiter really lowers the bar for Michigan. We may as well accept that we are no better than tOSU or SEC schools and get out of our ivory towers. How do you think Brown will be able to recruit against ND when their recruiters tell prospects their own coaches would rather have player at ND than Michigan. Perhaps when Hoke states that he wants coaches with high character and players with high character, he means it; just because some of us here are willing to lower our standards doesn't mean Hoke is. Isn't that what being a "LEADER" is all about/

Blue In NC

February 4th, 2011 at 10:12 AM ^

+100 if I could.  Why can't people accept that sometimes their actions, while explainable and maybe justifiable in one situation, could have adverse consequences in the future.  Own up to it.  Then to have someone complain about not getting the job.  Ugh.  

Not saying Corwin is a bad guy - he might be a great guy and certainly seems to be a great recruiter.  But this blog has documented that his actual coaching at times was very questionable. 

LB

February 3rd, 2011 at 11:45 PM ^

We only know that Taylor said he was.

Every time I hear Taylor I am reminded of this, from Michigan: Where Have You Gone - Pg 186.

"The week of the Ohio State game, I did something I had never done before: I didn't care what I did out  there in practice." he said. "At some point I had had enough. I thought: 'If they are not going to play me, why should I bust my butt? Why go through the hassle if your're not gong to play because someone doesn't like you? I figured I wasn't going to play, so I threw interceptions on purpose."

That was how he helped his teammates prepare for tsiO. What is he helping with now?

Hah, I type too slow! Thanks for the link,

MichiganStudent

February 4th, 2011 at 12:15 AM ^

I think a lot of it is Brian. The thing is, if you ask me, its really not that big of a deal. In a perfect world we would probably have half black and half white coaches, but I don't think its as big of a deal that some people are making it out to be. To me, its a non-issue that is being sensationalized because people like to bitch and moan about something at all times. 

Blue In NC

February 4th, 2011 at 10:39 AM ^

Hey, I hope that Hoke does a great job and at least based on the first few weeks, things do look more promising.  But take a step back and you must concede that (1) the hiring process was close to a disaster that left most here very frustrated (including Brian), (2) Hoke was an uninspiring hire given the long delay with a somewhat middling track record as a coach.  I am not sure what Brian was wrong about?  Even if he was wrong, we all know he is a fan and yes, writes with emotion and feeling sometimes.

Given that backdrop and yes, the past frustration with 3 years of anti-RR sentiment, it's easy to see why Brian would scrutinize the hire and the assistant hirings.  The reality is that Hoke is not young and hired two significantly older (and yes white) coordinators.  It's also reality that a large % of players are AA and one school of thought is that you need some AA coaches on your staff.  Not saying it's right or wrong but it's one of the reasons that many thought Ty Willingham and Bobby Williams might do well in recruiting as head coaches.  One reality is that another important factor is actual coaching technique and player management.  These coaches may excel at that but it's hard to judge in the offseason. Yes, we should all wait to judge the coaches on actual results rather than superficial initial impressions.  But should Brian simply say nothing until the season preview?

I am not overly concerned about the issue as the staff does have two AA coaches, not counting the recruiting coordinator.  Initial impressions can easily be overcome if the coaches do a good job, recruit well and relate well to the players.  The reality is that Hoke seems to be going with people he knows and can trust and I can't really criticize him for that, especially given the current state of the program.  Obviously with the age of some of the coaches, there will be some turnover in the next 5 or so years and things may change once the program is more settled.  While I am not necessarily "inspired" with some of the choices, they are solid choices so it's hard to criticize those decisions too much.

M-Wolverine

February 4th, 2011 at 11:35 AM ^

But I have always said "The Process" is open for criticism. It's not how I would have done it. But it may have been honestly, if naively done. (He might have been looking to the Bowl as a justification to keep Rich, and not getting that still seemed to struggle with an all day "firing"). Should it have been decides in December, in any case? Certainly up for debate.

As to point #2, I won't concede. Frankly, the program seems more energized than it has for more than 3 years. It was certainly uninspiring to SOME, but that some have taken the position that it's everybody.

What has Brian been wrong on? That for one, obvious, undebatable one. "0.0". Also about year two turnarounds, turnovers being random and righting themselves, yards showing offensive dominance against good competition, and Rich leading us to the promise land, for starters. Denard leaving immediately, Huge turnover, and the recruiting class being an 8 man disaster more recently. He was right about GERG, but not at a lot of other prognostications.

For those of us not suffering from apparent clinical depression over it, the time for emotion was a month ago almost. See many a poster who wasn't thrilled with it, but aren't still have passive-aggressive diarrhea of the mouth. It's not his initial reaction, but the continued shots (often not in fact...) that seem over the top. At least he's stopped with the "donut" comments (which rank probably up there with any "hillbilly" comments for the previous coach, but Brian doesn't seem to see the double standard).

Brian can say stuff, but it's be nice if it was based on fact, more than emotion. And if it seemed more like he was still a fan of Michigan, and not just a fan of "Michigan with a spread offense". Because it seems he's washed his hands of his fandom pre-2008, and doesn't care or like it post 2010. And he picked 3 really "interesting" years to tie his ship to.

BRCE

February 4th, 2011 at 2:27 AM ^

You are absolutely correct about that. There is not much of a difference in the qualifications of the position coaches on those staffs nor the age/racial makeup.

The real issue (along with people who just follow what Brian says), is Michigan fans are weirdly obsessed with assistant coaches. I read a lot of message boards out there and no fanbase seems as concerned with it as we are, for better and for worse. The deifying of Barwis, for example, was a unique phenomenon that I don't think could have happened anywhere else.