Completely OT - Is this the New AP Style Grammar?

Submitted by Blazefire on
Alright, I hate to get picky, but when you're a professional news source, you might want to pick up your Little Brown Handbook from 9TH GRADE JOURNALISM class, and read some basic English rules. From CNN.com: Nearly 1 in 4 people is Muslim. Really? A: The "to be" verb references people, which in itself is a reference to a large group of people. Are. Seriously, it's not that hard. Are. 2: You can't, and I mean CANNOT have nearly one. If you want to use that statistic, you must, and I mean must, multiply it. Nearly 3 in 10 would be much more appropriate, or, better still, X% of people. D: Numbers under 10, excepting some very rare circumstances, should really be written out. This is more flexible, given the nature of the internet, but still. AHHHHHG!
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Blazefire

October 8th, 2009 at 12:42 PM ^

No. If you wanted to use "is", you'd have to say, "nearly one person in four", which actually isn't bad. By using people, you've pluralized the subject. People are. A person is. You're referencing a statistic out of a much larger group of people. Nearly one in four people is the same as nearly 25 out of a hundred people, etc.

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Blazefire

October 8th, 2009 at 1:01 PM ^

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/numberofpeople That is a question direct to the Oxford English Dictionary people. "Although the expression 'a number' is strictly singular, the phrase 'a number of' is used with plural nouns (as what grammarians call a determiner). The verb should therefore be plural: 'A number of people are waiting for the bus'. This is not the case with 'the number', which is still singular: 'The number of people here has increased since this morning.'" A number is used with a plural noun, people, and therefore, are is correct. A number of people are. It doesn't matter if it's one or more people. The noun is people. As I said, the "to be" verb refers to the subject. People.

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noshesnot

October 8th, 2009 at 1:07 PM ^

Didn't click the link, but aren't they referring to the actual phrase "A number" and "The number"? Also, the English say that a team "are" instead of "is". For instance, "Michigan are really good this year" EDIT: Clicked the link, and yes, they are referring to those specific phrases. Not numerals.

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Blazefire

October 8th, 2009 at 1:14 PM ^

It doesn't matter. The subject of the sentence is "People". That's the noun there. A verb in a sentence ALWAYS refers to a noun. One is not a noun except when used intentionally as a noun, in place of You, Me, He, She, It, etc. One person went to the store. The noun is person, not one. One orange was rotten. The noun is orange, not one. One apple was rotten, and the other was fresh. The nouns are apple, and the unstated other apple. Not one. One must be at peace with the universe. In this case, one is the noun, but only because it stands in for another noun.

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Aamoldini

October 8th, 2009 at 2:06 PM ^

It should be one in four people is muslim: "In four people" is a prepositional phrase, and so, can be moved around in the sentence as long as it is next to what it is modifiying (i.e. the sentence avoids a misplaced modifier http://www.towson.edu/ows/moduleDangling.htm). Changing the sentence to : "One out of every four people is muslim" does not affect the specific point of grammar we are arguing about in any way. It simply includes some elliptical words that are omitted in the original. As it is written currently, the original could, without misconstruing the grammar, be interpreted as "One (person in this group) of four is Muslim. Therefore, the sentence can be rewritten as: "Out of every four people, one is muslim". The sentence does not change the subject or verb at all and, indeed, the entire prepositional phrase can be omitted. While omitting the prep. phrase would considerably change the meaning of the sentence, the grammar would not change at all. In short: prepositional phrases have no effect (with the exception of the stated "a number" vs. "the number" which specifically refers to the use of the word "number") on the singularity/plurality of verbs because the prep. phrases do not change the subject of the verb. So what the question boils down to is: Is it correct to say: "Out of every four people, one is muslim" or "Out of every four people, one are muslim" I leave you to decide...

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Blazefire

October 8th, 2009 at 2:15 PM ^

There you go. Some contradictory evidence. And I am impressed. That said, because you CAN move the phrase around without changing the meaning or altering the overall grammar of the sentence, you don't HAVE to, and they did not. As the sentence was written, the "to be" verb still couples with the subject "people". The sentence would indeed have to be moved around, and as was noted, can be, to make the subject one. In your example the subject of the sentence is the one Muslim person, which, as I noted previously, would indeed make "is" acceptable. In their sentence, "One out of every four people is Muslim", the subject noun is "people". It can be moved so that the One Muslim person is the subject, and the four person group becomes the entire sample, but they did not do this. I think the argument here becomes: If something can be done, but is not, is it grammatically acceptable to assume it? In which case, leeway of judgement provides accuracy in either direction.

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Sgt. Wolverine

October 8th, 2009 at 1:18 PM ^

Yes, but everybody knows the English have no idea how to speak English. Seriously, that's always confused me a little. They'll do it with bands, too -- U2 are playing London, not U2 is playing London. I've never been able to understand that habit. To me, a team or a band is singular. If I want to go plural, I'll use the mascot. Michigan is playing well; the Wolverines are playing well. I can't bring myself to say Michigan are playing well. It's almost painful.

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Blazefire

October 8th, 2009 at 1:30 PM ^

It's always dependent on the subject noun. You would never say "Michigan are playing well". Michigan is one team, and the subject of that sentence is "Michigan". You would, however, say, "Michigan's players are playing well." The subject there is players, plural. I'm having trouble envisioning the circumstances wherein 'U2 are playing' would be correct. Except under the possibility that a band, or, as you later reference, a team, are always referred to as a group of individuals. I don't believe that's the case though. It's simple, for this rule. If the subject noun for the "to be" verb (is, are, was, were, etc) is singular, then your verb should be singular. If the subject noun is plural, then your verb should be plural. The difficult lies, sometimes, in determining your subject. In this case, our subject was "people". People is more than one. As such, people are. Now, as mentioned in the rule, if the subject is the number of people, I.E. - "the number of people who are muslim is one out of every four", (again, in this case, are refers to people), then you would also use an is, because the subject then becomes the number. Not the people.

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Isaac Newton

October 8th, 2009 at 2:30 PM ^

Sorry, but I fail to see how "a number of people" and "1 in 4 people" are the same thing. I'm with Aamoldini below. "in 4 people" is a prepositional phrase. To make "people" the subject of the sentence, it can't be part of the prepositional phrase. And so, your prepositional phrase would not be "in 4 people" but "in 4." Your sentence sans the prepositional phrase then becomes "1 people is/are muslim." This clearly doesn't make sense.

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noshesnot

October 8th, 2009 at 12:42 PM ^

1 in 4 "is" is appropriate. The verb "to be" is (ha!) referencing the 1, which is obviously singular. Another way you could rephrase it is "1 person in 4 is..." If you take a journalism class in 9th grade, you'll also know that most journals and newspapers are written at an 8th grade reading level. It is much easier for someone to conceptually picture "1 in 4" than 25%, or in this case, something probably closer to 22, 23%. And yes, numbers under 10 should be written out. EDIT: too long of a rant, you beat me to it...

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Blazefire

October 8th, 2009 at 12:46 PM ^

One person in four can "is". In that case, you're subdividing the whole thing into individual groups of four, wherein one person (nearly one!) does something each time. People references a larger group. "Nearly one in four people in this group of 100, or exactly 23 people, are Muslim."

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Wide Open

October 8th, 2009 at 12:49 PM ^

I think of "nearly 1 in 4" simply as a fraction meaning "less than 25 percent" so it makes sense. A worse transgression is probably the use of single quotes around Barefoot Burglar in the absence of double quotes.

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Blue Lurker

October 8th, 2009 at 1:25 PM ^

There is always an explanation...outdated but an explanation http://www.wordcourt.com/archives.php?show=2005-12-28 "Professionals in a few realms -- for instance, linguistics and horticulture -- do use single quotation marks in specialized ways. Many newspapers use single quote marks instead of double ones in headlines. But that’s because headline type is big, and double quote marks take up extra space that might be better used for an extra letter or two. Merrill Perlman, the copy chief of The New York Times, told me the custom may even go 'back to days when type was hand-set and papers had limited numbers of characters in the larger headline fonts and sizes.' That is, papers risked running short of big quote marks unless they doled them out sparingly."

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noshesnot

October 8th, 2009 at 1:13 PM ^

Blazefire, did you think that your post would spin into this ridiculous discussion? I love MGoBlog. Kudos to you, sir, for making me think about other things than medicine. Michigan Men: Well-rounded since 1817

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Blazefire

October 8th, 2009 at 1:16 PM ^

I did not, mostly because I didn't think there was anything to argue here. The noun in the sentence to which "is" refers is people. People is plural. Therefore, the noun must be are. I'm telling you, I am a Communications major. I took more English classes than Carter's has drugs.

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noshesnot

October 8th, 2009 at 1:40 PM ^

I'm pretty sure I'm right, but I have no exact sources to back me up. However, if you google "1 in 4 people", you'll find that it is commonly followed by the word "is" by reputable sources like the BBC, LA Times, NY Times, etc. That's as good as I have. EDIT: Also, shouldn't you be able to rearrange a sentence and have it still make sense? For instance: 1 in 4 people is Muslim. In 4 people, 1 is Muslim. "Are" wouldn't be appropriate there, correct?

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