Comparing UM and OSU starting lineups (mods please delete)

Submitted by ldevon1 on September 11th, 2017 at 9:27 AM

Mods, please delete, this did not come out the way it was formatted. Yikes!                                   



(T) MASON COLE (4*)                                                                    JAMARCO JONES (4*)

(G) BEN BRADEN (4*)                                                                     MICHAEL JORDAN (4*)

(C) PATRICK KUGLER (4*)                                                              BILLY PRICE (4*)

(G) MIKE ONWENU (4*)                                                                  BRANDON BOWEN (4*)

(T) NOLAN ULIZIO (4*)                                                                    ISAIAH PRINCE (4*)

(TE) TY WHEATLEY (4*)                                                                  MARCUS BAUGH (4*)

(QB) WILTON SPEIGHT (3*)                                                            JT BARRETT (4*)

(RB) TY ISAAC (5*)                                                                           JK DOBBINS (4*)

CHRIS EVANS (4*)                                                                            MIKE WEBBER (4*)


(FB) KHALID HILL (3*)                                                                     N/A

(WR) TARIK BLACK (4*)                                                                  PARIS CAMPBELL (4*)

(WR) KEKOA CRAWFORD (4*)                                                       AUSTIN MACK (4*)

(WR) GRANT PERRY (3*)                                                                JOHNNIE DIXON (4*)



(DE) RASHAN GARY (5*)                                                              NICK BOSA (5*)

(N) BRYAN MONE (4*)                                                                   TRACY SPRINKLE (3*)

(DT) MAURICE HURST (4*)                                                           DRE’MONT JONES (4*)

(DE) CHASE WINOVICH (4*)                                                         SAM HUBBARD (4*)

(VIPER) KHALEKE HUDSON (3*)                                                  JAYLEN HOLMES (4*)

(LB) MIKE MCCRAY (4*)                                                                 DANTE BOOKER (4*)

(LB) DEVIN BUSH (4*)                                                                    CHRIS WORLEY (3*)

(S) TYREE KINNEL (4*)                                                                  DAMON WEBB (4*)

(S) JOSH METELLUS (3*)                                                              JORDAN FULLER (4*)

(CB) LAVERT HILL (4*)                                                                   DENZEL WARD (4*)

(CB) DAVID LONG (4*)                                                                   DAMON ARNETT (3*)    


We keep hearing the narrative that OSU has the best (most talented) starting lineup in America, but is it necessarily true? 





September 11th, 2017 at 9:33 AM ^

While not all 4*s are created alike - I'd be willing to bet, for instance, that OSU has a lot more of the "4* almost 5* top 100" kind of kids in their two-deep, whereas we have more of the "solid 4* top 300 kids" - but I don't think the talent gap is as big as some people think. 

Plus, and this is not something I say lightly, I think Harbaugh and his staff are better than Urban and his staff. Yes, Urban has won the big prize several times. But I'd still, right now, take Harbaugh and Co. over Urban and Co. 


September 11th, 2017 at 9:59 AM ^

"I'm not positive about Harbaugh vs Meyer"

Why not?  (Serious question.)  Meyer has more experience as a HC (been around longer), and has won the big prize in CFB.  He built BG and Utah, and inherited fully loaded programs at UF and OSU.  He's a great coach, no doubt.

Harbaugh has built programs that last everywhere he's been - with the exception of SF (whose owners are trash and destroyed everything he did).  And every place he's been was a tire fire when he arrived (yes, including Michigan).  He also took SF to within a breath of a Super Bowl win, and played in 3 NFC championship games in 4 years.

I'll put Harbaugh solidly on the same level of the HC hierarchy as both Meyer and Saban.


September 11th, 2017 at 10:48 AM ^

I think the "fire in the belly" might be going out.  Harbaugh is just getting started.  Their relative efforts in practice and pregame preparation are not the same - advantage Harbaugh.

We kid about Meyer getting sick again, but there is a grain of truth in that.  If OSU has a 3 loss season, he may be headed to retirement.


September 11th, 2017 at 11:01 AM ^

I always felt that he really started to have problems at Florida when his recruiting classes started making up the majority of the roster instead of Zook's guys. Well, that and the emergence of saban at bama.
I felt we would see the same with him at OSU. He has all these historic classes, yet after week 2 in year 5 (or is it 6?) At OSU his fan base is questioning his offensive philosophy and scheme and his ability as an in game coach.
I am not sure why this is, but I would guess it is because he recruits these stud athletes that maybe far more "me" guys than "team" guys. At this point, we all can agree he did do that at Florida.


September 11th, 2017 at 11:19 AM ^

I talk football with a very knowledgable OSU guy everyday at work.  This morning he was saying that OSU needed to run the ball for the rest of the year because he didn't like OSU's receivers.  He said that all receivers are crazy prima donnas, but that the OSU receivers this year were especially bad.     You "'me' guys" comment especially resonates after talking to this die hard OSU fan.       Football (sports) fans always think that our guys are morally, spiritually and intellectually superior to the other guys, and it has to be taken with a gain of homerism salt, but there might be something to it with Urban Meyer's "Circle of Trust."     Not sure why the same thing hasn't bitten Saban, but the "me guy" thing is a thing with Meyer.

The Mad Hatter

September 11th, 2017 at 12:12 PM ^

he attracts.  Remember when they lost to MSU a few years back and there were players talking shit (on camera!) about the coaches?  Neither Saban or Harbaugh would up with that shit.  They'd be riding pine for the rest of the year, even if it hurt the team's chances at victory.


September 11th, 2017 at 12:50 PM ^

Well, at least the "me guys" he has attracted at OSU are not thugs like at Florida. At least, they have not shown to be like that at OSU up until this point.
By the time he left Florida the players knew they can act like they were on the streets and Meyers would do nothing.
In fact, in the ESPN segment on Florida post Meyer, one player got mad that Muschamp disciplined guys and said he does not know what it takes to win, unlike Meyers who would not suspended guys.


September 11th, 2017 at 9:56 AM ^

They way I was reading the OSU meltdown threads it sounded like no matter the offensive coordinator they were still running Meyer's offense. Quite a few were calling for Urban to step away from the offensive oversight and let Wilson take a little more control. 

Not sure how much of that is true or overreaction to a loss.


September 11th, 2017 at 11:25 AM ^

Most if the meltdown threads I read were calling for 3 things, Meyer to give full, or most, control to Wilson, to bench jt, and fire the ass hate wr coach, who is better at coming with nicknames for his inept unit,and starting Twitter wars, than actually coaching.
There were some also questioning combs, the DB coach because the corners never turn back for the ball. This one is particularly funny because most of that fan base adamantly wanted him to stay, and not become the Cinci DC over the off season.

Perkis-Size Me

September 11th, 2017 at 11:27 AM ^

Not overly ridiculous to say that the staffs as a whole are equal, or comparable at worst. If we're going just Harbaugh vs. just Meyer, based on past results I go with Meyer. He has the hardware and Harbaugh doesn't. Sorry but it is what it is. NFL results don't mean anything because we're talking strictly about college here. 

But both staffs are incredibly talented. Brown is the best in the business (or top 3 anyway), and I'd happily take him over the frickin' deadbeat that is Greg Schiano. I'd be inclined to take Wilson over Drevno based on the chaos his offenses created at IU, but Wilson's offense (so far) hasn't looked too good against a good opponent. And there's a lot of experience across the board for positional coaches in both programs. A TON of NFL experience on Harbaugh's side, but Meyer's guys are no slouches either. Larry Johnson is really damn good at what he does. 

CRISPed in the DIAG

September 11th, 2017 at 12:07 PM ^

I hear you, but Harbaugh's pro/spead/manball hybrid jazz fusion seems more flexible.  Hell, Brown has already uncorked some nuance.  

We pretty much know what we're gonna get with OSU's offense right now. It's a power spread that's relying on JT to option people off to those dive plays up the middle where he rolls forward for a few yards. On the occasion they go vertical, their receivers drop balls (which I'm sure they'll catch against us). To the naked eye, they don't look any different than last November.  And their defense might be worse. 


September 11th, 2017 at 6:37 PM ^

you will see that he wins after assembling huge talent advantages. In situations were the talent is closer, his record is mediocre. Note OU and Clemson recently, and when his talent started waning at Florida. Good coach yes, even a better recruiter. But not a great coach.

All through JHs career, he has won with equal or lessor talent.


September 11th, 2017 at 9:34 AM ^

I think you also need to add in experience here and if the same picture emerges, then it's not all about talent. In addition, you may want to use the number rating from 247, to get more detailed (I'm not sure how a "high" 4* compares to a "low 4*", but I'm sure others do).

BTW, I'd assume Alabama has the most talented starting lineup in CFB.


September 11th, 2017 at 11:30 AM ^

247 has a roster talent ranking and bama us number one. I think OSU is two. But they don't go by starting lineup and only by the whole roster. OSU is so high because the last 2 classes have been historicly high for them, particularly last year's. However, alot of these guys are backups right now, especially in the back 7 which picked up several 5 stars and high 4 stars.


September 11th, 2017 at 12:48 PM ^

But to some extent shouldn't you go by the whole roster? Injuries being one reason depth matter. See also Jabrill Peppers, Grant Newsome, etc. Flexibility to run different personnel packages eg FBs, 5 wide, TEs, or going 3-3-5 isn't captured if you just look at 11 static guys in your base formation.


Also, with a depth of talent, you can have occasional five star misses or 4 stars who turn out to be awesome etc. The more talent you throw at a problem, the more likely someone really good will emerge. Which helps you avoid having say, throw out a 3* person who is just a guy as your starting RT. That's where depth of talent really matters because you reduce your chances of having a significant weakness if you stack each position with good athletes. 


September 11th, 2017 at 9:37 AM ^

nothing wrong with this post unless your ratings were wrong and in that case, just fix 'em.


as for bama having the 'most taltented starting lineup in CFB', i think jblaze meant to type 'NFL'.



September 11th, 2017 at 10:07 AM ^

He was more or less a 2 star. Guys like that tend to get a bump when they commit to a big program, so it's very unusual to see an actual 2 star committed. But his offer list, IIRC was pretty standard 2 star material.


September 11th, 2017 at 9:55 AM ^

Can't just look at the starting line-ups.  Need to look at depth as well.  A useful tool is 247's team talent rankings.  I believe they add up the composite rankings whenever the active rosters are released in the fall for each team.  UM is current number 7 with an ave player rating of 89.92.  OSU is number 2 with 92.18.  Of course Bama is number 1 93.33.  LSU is 6 with 90.60 and Auburn is 8 with 89.98. (higher ave, but they're under the scholly limit by a few so total points are down).  Forida is 18, Penn State 19, and Maryland, Nebraska, and MSU are all 28-30 respectively.  With ave in teh 85s for context.