Clarification on the Transfer Thread

Submitted by Ziff72 on April 26th, 2010 at 11:00 PM

I didn't anticipate such a meltdown from what I thought was just an observation of the current regime. The thought was not a comparison to the previous regime and I just wanted to clarify my point if it was lost.

I love Barwis, but I don't believe it is some unbelievable change from before. I'm sure Gittelson ran a fine program, he was a pioneer in the business.

What I see are the main differences in the programs is that Lloyd allowed the kids more freedom in what they wanted to do and relied on their own personal pride and senior leadership to make sure they were staying in shape. Carr repeatedly said he wanted his kids to enjoy the college experience. Kids like Jake Long trained hard under Gittelson and became a #1 pick monster. I would say most players on the team took pride in their condition and wanted to play so they followed suit. How they went about it was much different but in the end, most of the kids were in fine shape under Lloyd and would have been in similar shape under RR.

My point was that under Lloyd it appeared that some of the kids that didn't quite pan out were allowed to kind of cruise on the scout teams and bottom of the depth charts.

Under RR it appears the kids are under tighter restrictions and are not allowed to coast into their final years while they pursue their degrees. I thought faced with the thought of little playing time more kids under RR would transfer out D. Oneil style than would happen under Lloyd, because of the tighter restrictions.

I thought this kind of "SEC Enviornment" would make us more competitive because we would have more scholarships open each year, but I was torn because of the negative backlash we might receive from it and I wasn't sure if I thought it was right or not to have this more professional approach.

So far it has gone better than I hoped, everyone looks to be in great shape or getting there and we haven't had much turnover.

Comments

MGoShoe

April 27th, 2010 at 5:56 AM ^

...continues to be a viable technology for aircraft. Not every model requires a jet engine.

Barwis and the current S&C program are cutting edge and produces athletes suited for RichRod's system, but the sins of the previous regime are wildly overstated by the detractors.

I prefer to look forward and believe that this debate is divisive and not particularly useful. We have a coach who has a system and a team that he has molded to fit that system.

No one on the outside expects this team to be any good. I do, as do many of you. Let's try hard to keep it together until Sep 4 when we begin to shock the college football world.

BTW, congrats to exmtroj for crossing the MGoPoints Mendoza line.

Pete the Numbat

April 26th, 2010 at 11:08 PM ^

gittleson didn't believe in free weights

his reasoning was....wait for it...bo told him to not get kids hurt lifting

yes, there are individuals who broke the norm, but our alumni weren't coming back to work out here at all...now they're flocking back, that says something about barwis

Ziff72

April 26th, 2010 at 11:15 PM ^

Dude I love Barwis, but how do you explain Jake Long, NC, numerous Big Ten titles, owning the SEC, Charles Woodson etc.. if are weight program was so backwards. Lloyd was that good of a strategist?? Everything gets overblown, things are closer to the middle than people want to believe.

mtzlblk

April 27th, 2010 at 4:04 PM ^

FWIW - It was well known that he at times was less than satisfied with the dedication and effort of many of his team mates. He didn't go whining in public about it, of course, but people close to the program will tell he was on another level than others on the team in terms of what he put into his training.

As for the history, I agree with the sentiment that there is nothing to be gained from this debate. No one is going to change their opinion and there is lots of evidence for both sides, let's just be happy that for a while the Carr/Gittleson combo worked and that we seem to have a new system with RR/Barwis that should get us back there.

jvick9006

April 26th, 2010 at 11:28 PM ^

Gittleson believed in barbell bench press. Barbells are considered free weights. Do you really know players didn't come back to work with Gittleson? Gittleson rarely interviewed when he was here and didn't even have a strength & conditioning page on the website. He never tried to "market" himself like Barwis does.

exmtroj

April 26th, 2010 at 11:16 PM ^

Under Barwis, it's not just about strength, though. He emphasizes speed and all-around fitness as opposed to brute strength. We could have used more of that against a certain FCS team a few years ago...

Geaux_Blue

April 26th, 2010 at 11:29 PM ^

Seems comments like this

What I see are the main differences in the programs is that Lloyd allowed the kids more freedom in what they wanted to do and relied on their own personal pride and senior leadership to make sure they were staying in shape. Carr repeatedly said he wanted his kids to enjoy the college experience. Kids like Jake Long trained hard under Gittelson and became a #1 pick monster. I would say most players on the team took pride in their condition and wanted to play so they followed suit. How they went about it was much different but in the end, most of the kids were in fine shape under Lloyd and would have been in similar shape under RR.

have a WHOLE lot of claims with little backing. Using anecdotes like Boren plowing does not lead you to be able to make things up across the team. how can you claim these things about the carr program?

Ziff72

April 27th, 2010 at 9:36 AM ^

You rip me for making false claims. Where did I say anything about Boren?? Pot hello kettle.

I'm using words spoken by Lloyd Carr, former players and insiders and making a conclusion based on the evidence.

If you remember after the 7-5 season in 05 Lloyd thought the team had gotten too fat and talked to the team about losing weight and set goals for his team. Leading into 06 we heard numerous stories about how the Seniors organized runs thru the golf course to help in losing weight and getting in better shape.

There have been numerous stories about things like this.

I don't understand why one thing always has to be better than the other. Sometimes things are different, but just as effective.

Ziff72

April 27th, 2010 at 9:44 AM ^

What I meant by "SEC Enviornment" was if a player isn't performing they find a way to let him know to get the fuck out so they are not wasting a scholarship on a scout team player. I don't think they train harder or have anymore speed.

Please see Brian's numerous posts on Alabama's oversigning. They have an unfair advantage on the field, but we have a moral advantage in that we like actually care about the kid and his education in the Big Ten. When we're 5-7 and getting our teeth kicked in by everyone in the media it gets me wavering off that ideal and I start to think I want to go Spurrier and start punching people in the face 77-0 and ask em how that tastes. Now we got idiot Biden piling on, I really hope RR can turn this thing and jam it in everyones ass.

Tater

April 26th, 2010 at 11:48 PM ^

So, if I understand this correctly, we are reprising a thread that resulted in a meltdown? Why on earth would anyone want to do that?

Just sayin.....