Charles Woodson: It’s okay to hold the coaches accountable

Submitted by Michwolve21 on January 7th, 2019 at 11:45 PM

As Charles Woodson said: the coaches need to be held accountable as well. Warde Manuel also needs to be held accountable. I haven’t paid my PSD yet, I suggest others hold out as well. Don’t fool yourself, Warde will feel pressure if not many PSDs are coming in.

Comments

WestQuad

January 7th, 2019 at 11:59 PM ^

I don't have a problem with Dabo's Jesus talk, that's who he is, but you can see his brain short circuit as far as what to say and then he throws Jesus or "how bout them Tigers" in there.   My Northern sensibilities take him as a bumpkin, but he must be doing something right.  

old98blue

January 8th, 2019 at 12:11 AM ^

Just be careful in believing that, that's who Hugh freeze was too and Jimmy Swaggart and half the other televangelists that frequently visited hookers. I never fall for that act or the mr. Rogers sweater vest wearing Act of Jim Tressel I always feel like there's something behind that

stephenrjking

January 8th, 2019 at 12:16 AM ^

If you believe the worst about everyone because of the actions of a few of their number, you will be... wrong. A lot of the time. Not always, but very often. 

I have no idea what Dabo is "really" like. I cannot assume he's fake because Freeze was any more than I can assume he's legitimate because I know very sincere, good people who speak in that way.

Assuming we know because of what we encountered in someone else is, quite literally, prejudice. 

stephenrjking

January 8th, 2019 at 12:27 AM ^

Gary and Warde didn't say it, Jim Hackett (who was the AD at the time) did. 

It's interesting, because Michigan finished with a higher ranked class than Clemson that year. Happens a fair amount, actually.

Still, that all goes in to issue 2, regarding the possibility of a crooked program. As you say, cynicism about the entire state of the sport in this regard is warranted. I doubt Clemson is doing anything that is remarkably more corrupt than any other top level program, at least as far as recruiting goes (PEDs are an interesting question, as you really have to mess up to get caught and Clemson players have). But then, there's a question about whether or not a program that pays money to players is violating the moral standards Dabo's professions of faith would suggest he has. Some people may not think so. Some may. 

stephenrjking

January 8th, 2019 at 9:19 AM ^

You misapprehend my position. There are a number of people who consider giving money to players, over or under the table, to be a good thing. Including proprietors of this blog. 

My personal position is that if Dabo is aware that his program uses irregular recruiting practices, regardless of what one thinks of the NCAA regulations being flouted, he should resign. But I am not his authority. 

MGlobules

January 8th, 2019 at 10:55 AM ^

You're hitting on something important. The ethos IS that God loves a fallen man. . . who has climbed back up, even if many times. That we are ALL fallen men (it really often IS all about the men) and that God chooses surprising people to do His will. It's often a way of justifying having dubious people in charge, but it's absolutely part of the thinking.

I have heard this thinking espoused among Southern Baptists, and know whereof I speak. I married into such a family, and my wife has pointed out this thinking--which justifies hypocrisy--many times. It the reason that many Christian conservatives don't blink when you try to point out the ugliness of some leaders' behavior.

It's also not necessarily so unique. Other cultures do it in their own ways, but most groups have some rationale for justifying why their representatives' ugly should be discounted, some patterns that are pretty readily distinguished. We just tend to get an earful of Dabo's kind quite a lot in our public life.  

For the record--I don't give much of a damn if Dabo wants to spout cliched Christian rhetoric about God smiling on him and being blessed. But I damned sure do resent the fact that the sport is awash in money and drugs. The fact that this doesn't even get a mention from Herbstreit et al, well. . . the sport pays their bills. 

On a superficial level I also enjoyed seeing the Great Satan get pantsed! And I'm sure there was more than one devout Christian out there enjoying it, too. 

 

McBuck85

January 12th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^

This, X's about 15,275. I was raised evangelical in Appalachia, and though I'm now agnostic, I can spout Gospel with the best of 'em. Considering the multitude of verses in the Christian Bible, you can find one condoning or condemning pretty much anything, esp. when you bring Leviticus into the mix. 

Good for Dabo if he wants to offer up gratitude for his blessings; I wonder, though, what would happen if his fortunes reversed. Would he say that God is testing him (see: Job), or would he wonder if he had done something wrong and needed to change his ways; that is, God is punishing him? I'm always intrigued by people who are in an accident where others are killed but they survive and report, "God was looking over me that day." The clear implication is that God was indifferent about the ones who died.

BTW, I enjoy conversations like this on this board but as a Buckeye, if I'm not supposed to be here, let me know. I don't troll, but I also don't want to be visiting someone else's house if they'd really I not.

stephenrjking

January 8th, 2019 at 12:04 AM ^

There are three reasons not to like Dabo:

1. You think his program is dirty. A lot of programs are, but we have seen signs that his is one of them and people often focus on winning teams that are perceived to be dirty.

2. You dislike him because he wins a lot. We resent winners. I'm not saying that's bad; I resent Alabama a great deal, mostly because they win all the time. I disliked USC and Miami and Nebraska before them. 

3. He's a folksy southerner and a Christian, which a lot of people have a hard time dealing with.

I don't consider #3 to be a good reason. But even if #1 is incorrect, the perception is reasonable, and #2 is absolutely reasonable. I dislike a lot of guys in sports terms (that is, I don't actually hate them as humans, but for entertainment purposes they're a heel and I loathe them) for being good when my guys aren't. It's legit. 

dragonchild

January 8th, 2019 at 6:42 AM ^

This.  If you want to sleep at night with a Bible in one hand and a crucifix in the other, that's your deal, but walk your damn walk or you're desecrating your God swag and actively harming society besides.  Yet the Bible Belt is a huge cesspool of sports corruption, and Meyer wore God on his sleeve -- at least when he was recruiting Tebow.

JHumich

January 8th, 2019 at 8:14 AM ^

Wow--the assumption that faith cannot be real if public, and that it is therefore always purely from ulterior motive if you see it. Jesus was crucified because His faith in Himself was too public for the Jews. And the world is full of people whose public belief in Him gains them nothing but pain, in an earthly sense. Just Google Early Rain Covenant Church (Chinese church that gets rounded up and beaten weekly just for trying to gather) or Nigerian Christians (slaughtered at will, but not in a news-important area of the world, so we never hear about them).

The whole "Bible belt" thing is pretty tired and no longer accurate. Northern/urban ethnocentrism is annoying to me. Since I moved down south from metro Detroit, I've met way more people down here whose religion is ALL about the SEC and has very little to do with Jesus. There may be cultural memory of pseudo-Christian superficial ethics, but there's very little real Christianity down here.

Frauds are frauds. Hate their falsehood. But don't assume that everyone is fraudulent just because their faith is public. Do you think Jimmy's super public homage to the Pope makes him and Michigan fraudulent? The second and third hand accounts out of Clemson about Dabo's personal love, humility, and self-sacrifice--and his players' emulating the same--are pretty unanimous.

Maybe love, humility, and self-sacrifice have a small (?!) contribution to the amount of development we see in those players as well.

Ezeh-E

January 8th, 2019 at 8:31 AM ^

I took the point of the post your replying to to be "if you wear God on your sleeve, you should act like it" while pointing out many coaches who wear God on their sleeve while not acting like it. I don't see anything wrong with that. Now if you think Urban truly believes and lives his life according to what is espoused in the New Testament, I don't know what to tell you.

BILG

January 8th, 2019 at 6:47 AM ^

I agree with you when the Jesus talk is over the top and constantly in your face.  Then it comes off as overly sanctimonious and a red flag that something crooked is going on (ala Urban Meyer bible study groups at UF, with non other than Aaron Hernandez).

That said, Dabo hasn't hit my Jesus reference quota, (he's not definitively a fraud quite yet), as he isn't talking it up in the media all the time or declaring himself a martyr ala Meyer and Freeze.

When he enables a serial murderer or bangs hookers in the name of the good lord, then we can crucify him - pun intended.

BroadneckBlue21

January 8th, 2019 at 9:17 AM ^

#3: There is nothing wrong with being a Christian or a Southerner. The problem many have is when religion is used to exalt one's experiences over others (God let me win this NC). The Christian Southerner who believes their personal success derives from God's will are excruciatingly slapping their own religion in the face. Fer God sakes, God gave Adam and Eve free will. God doesn't value one man over another enough to give one man the ring. God let's humans decide their own fates. That's what's so fucking irritating about that kind of answer.

As for Dabo, I like the guy despite all those reasons--mostly because Clemson keeps pissing on Saban's lawn, marking his territory. His players seem to love him and play for each other. And they're confident they can win. So in the end, it may be that he sells that faith so much that it instills belief in his players, many of whom come from the South, where church is just part of life. 

McBuck85

January 12th, 2019 at 1:08 PM ^

Yeah, this, esp. re: the "God let me win this NC" talk. We see it play out with the brand of Christians (see: Joel Osteen) who say that God wants us to be happy and that includes financial well-being and so my greed isn't a sign of any dereliction of my Christian duty--it actually means I'm totally on God's good side! Never mind that Jesus said, "It is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Gospel of Matthew, with comparable versions in the Gospels of Mark and Luke).

McBuck85

January 12th, 2019 at 12:49 PM ^

Yeah, he's kind of the embodiment of the happy Southern Christian: smiles; not a ton of sour judgment (at least that he voices). I would only question him bringing his religious values into his conversation if players who didn't share that had reason to believe that they weren't quite as welcome to the table, or needed to be open to changing. 

denardogasm

January 8th, 2019 at 12:00 AM ^

What does this even mean?  What does being held accountable look like?  Getting fired?  That gets us nowhere.  Being blamed?  Everyone is blaming him that I've heard.  The end of the season was totally on the coaches and everyone and their mother is saying so.  So who's not holding him accountable?  You want Warde to come out and say Harbaugh sucked ass the last two games of the year?  I'm sure that would really help morale within the program.  Everyone knows it, and saying it specifically and in public doesn't achieve anything but make top level assistants less likely to want to come here.

Brandywine

January 8th, 2019 at 9:34 AM ^

It's true because there's no one at Michigan with any proven credibility. Harbaugh has to be that guy. Gene Smith can hold his coaches accountable, even Urban Meyer, because he's overseen success for years across coaching tenures. Barry Alvarez, ditto. We used to have Bo. It's a different model than Michigan right now and Harbaugh has to be that figure himself, build his own success and hopefully be that guy even after he leaves.

Tuebor

January 8th, 2019 at 12:13 AM ^

I don't want Harbaugh fired.

 

I want him to fire his overpaid underperforming offensive staff.  Pep Hamilton is literally the highest paid Offensive assistant or OC in the country.  

 

Look it up on usa today assistant salaries.

 

Screw waiting for his buddies to get a golden parachute.  Fire incompetent staffers.

Nervous Bird

January 8th, 2019 at 12:58 AM ^

If you think that Pep is underperforming because of the structure, playcalling of the offense, then you have not watched many Jim Harbaugh coached teams. I'm going share a little Harbaugh information for you. When at Stanford, Andrew Luck threw more touchdowns when Pep Hamilton was calling the plays (37), than the previous year when Harbaugh was calling the plays (32). In the NFL, Pep called plays for Luck to the result of 40 touchdown passes in a season. Harbaugh, in his first 3 years (at least NFC Championship Game) with the 49ers, had top 5 rushing attacks, and bottom 10 passing attacks. 

This body blow offense, this 40 runs and 25 passes a game offense, this time of possession offense is HARBAUGH'S!!! When Pep had total control of an offense they were more pass-oriented. Harbaugh's system is to run the ball, win the time of possession, wear down the opposing defense, and play staunch defense. HARBAUGH likes tight ends and full backs, who are definitely more suited to ball control. Firing Pep does NOTHING! It's not his offense! He does not have total playcalling control! 

Know who was hired! Jim Harbaugh, hard nosed, tough, eccentric, stubborn, Bo Schembechler disciple! Did you not see him at Stanford and San Francisco? We beg this guy to come home, then when he gets here we cry for him to change! If you guys wanted an exciting offense, you shouldn't have run RichRod out of town! Answer me this, how did that new exciting offense work out for Nick Saban? He won 6 titles as a run the ball, ball control offense, and a stingy defense. The first year he comes out throwing the ball, his defense gives up a lot of points for most of the year, and in the biggest game of the season, he gets his doors blown off! 

Harbaugh is Harbaugh, one bad game versus OSU is not going to send me running for the hills. 

A Lot of Milk

January 8th, 2019 at 1:17 AM ^

The title game wasn't about throwing the ball vs running, both teams were pass heavy all year. Tonight the difference was the quality of line play. Bama had no pressure all game and Lawrence carved them up. Tua constantly had to leave the pocket and made some bad decisions. Our oline is only going to get better, but I fear that the dline is gonna take a major step back next season

gbdub

January 8th, 2019 at 1:28 AM ^

Yeah, Clemson sure did tear ‘em up with their low tempo, run heavy, ball control offense, carefully protections their freshman QB and receivers from ever having to make a tough play... wait what?

Bama’s defense would have owned Michigan. Yeah, we have a Harbaugh offense, and we shouldn’t expect a slot-bug spread-to-pass, but Harbaugh either needs to improve himself or hand over the reins of play calling to someone else. What he’s doing now isn’t working very well and the constant clock management snafus are embarrassing to watch. 

It’s dumb to call for his head, or to imply that Warde ought to force his hand. But it’s perfectly reasonable to point out the the Harbaugh led Michigan offense is underperforming in ways that look structural, and ultimately on the head coach.