CC: What if Brandon survives?
Slow Friday, so I thought I would throw out this topic for some general discussion / speculation:
Up until now, I think that many of us have assumed that DB would be fired at some point soon. Perhaps not this week, but certainly in time for the new AD to fire Hoke and bring in a new head coach. And it is still a possibility that DB will, in fact, be fired by President Schlissel. But, the MGoBlue.com press release about DB working closely with CSG to address issues and the announced cut in studen ticket prices call that assumption into question. If DB was going to be fired, it seems as if Schliss wouldn't allow him to take this public role. So, we need to consider that he may survive.
Which leads to my question. If DB manages not to get canned, how does that realistically impact whether Hoke is retained? Let's assume for the moment that we finish the season at 7-6 (we beat Indiana, Northwestern and Maryland, but lose to our rivals, make some crappy bowl and muddle to a win). What happens?
My personal view: If Hoke loses to both rivals, he is gone, even if DB is making the decision. The fanbase discontent would be insane. DB, himself at the center of some of that discontent, would do what just about any political person would do, and try to place the blame on someone else while at the same time painting himself as part of the solution by firing Hoke and bringing in a big name coach.
For DB, if he plays it right, this could actually save him. Sure, many current students and alum hate the guy. And while some have principled reasons for doing so (ticket prices, commercialization, etc.), if we are being honest, many want him gone because the football team sucks. If Brandon were to go out and somehow convince a Harbaugh / Miles level coach to come here (while cutting ticket prices and stopping some of the noodle, skywriting, special K stuff that has annoyed some of the fansbase), I am pretty sure the Fire DB chants would quickly end, or be reduced to a small minority of the fanbase. So, I guess my short answer is that unless he beats MSU and/or OSU, Hoke is gone.
What say you, MGoBloggers?
October 17th, 2014 at 11:49 AM ^
can take to the bank it won't matter who the AD, no "A" list coach will be setting foot in Ann Arbor any time soon. They would have to be out of their minds to willingly enter the toxic atmosphere of Michigan Football. Speaking of any future Athletic Director, who in their right mind would willingly take on that job, and why? Not until the Michigan faithful come to the realization that Michigan is no longer a destination will they embrace the stone steppers required to return the football program to dominance.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 12:44 PM ^
when RR was fired? Fire Rodriguez and everyone would be happy happy. Well they're not, and it isn't because of Brandon and it isn't because of Hoke. It's because there are serious factions at play in the Michigan community that go beyond Brandon and Hoke. Interestingly these factions all generally want the same thing, a return to the glory days of the 1970s, they just differ about what exactly that means. And therein lies the rub, the 1970s aren't coming back, neither are the 1990s for that matter, there is just too much parity in college football.
You don't think there are waring factions that go beyond Brandon and Hoke? Then you haven't been paying attention to what's being written right here on MGOBLOG.
October 17th, 2014 at 1:01 PM ^
If Hoke could coach his way out of a brown, paper bag and Brandon wasn't constantly trying to fill one with the fans' money, then a majority of the fanbase would be happy right now. People are pissed because Hoke is a terrible coach and Brandon is a terrible AD - nothing more. The fanbase gave both of them a very fair chance, but they simply are not good at their respective, highly lucrative jobs.
October 17th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
It's mostly about the wins and losses. If Hoke had his team winning Big Ten titles,multiply,consecutively. all these other issues would basically be small potatoes. (Bernstein mentioned the lack of success of the football team in his dry forest quote.) Hoke would be the toast of Ann arbor, and Brandon, while still being annoying to many, would be an afterthought.
October 17th, 2014 at 2:29 PM ^
but the "Fire Brandon" faction say otherwise. Ticket prices, rawk music, Beyonce', that's what is upsetting them...not wins and losses.
October 17th, 2014 at 2:59 PM ^
Those are secondary issues that would be aired much, much less frequently if the football team were successful. OSU is guilty of those same sins but the fans accept it as long as they win 10 games a season.
(Are people actually upset about Beyoncé saying "Go Blue"? I was impressed they managed to pull that off. The crowd ate it up when it happened.)
October 17th, 2014 at 4:07 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 12:23 PM ^
What is the toxic atmosphere? Most of the fanbase would love anyone other than Brandon and would adore an A-list coach after all we've been through I think the new folks coming in will have a ton of fan support and reletively low early expectations. The facilities are great. The recruiting is in good shape. If I'm a mid-tier coach/AD, I see this as a great chance to come in and be the guy that got Michigan on track.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:27 PM ^
Last Saturday night, 113,000 fans turned out to see a 2-4 Michigan team, and though the team trailed for much of the game, the fans were overwhelmingly supportive. Toxic atmosphere?
October 17th, 2014 at 7:20 PM ^
113,000 tickets were sold before the season started. There is no way in Hades there were 113,000 people in that stadium. How many tickets will be sold next season? No one knows yet, but part of DB's performance is measured by lagging indicators.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^
So, fans thinking a vague semblance of improvement by Year 4 isn't asking too much = we think we're entitled to nothing less than Nick Saban-level coaching. OK.
I was underwhelmed, to be sure, when Hoke was hired, but I certainly wasn't repulsed. I thought he could be a Tressel- or Dantonio-type, old-school, zero-flash, just-work-hard-and-we'll-get-there kind of guy, and I wanted to give him his shot. He has failed. Quit acting like Michigan fans are somehow spoiled by demanding better than negative rushing performances and fifth-year senior QBs who are outplayed by other teams' sophomores.
October 17th, 2014 at 2:40 PM ^
I was saying that Hoke had to go. I still think that and unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat and goes undefeated the rest of the way I'll always believe that he put being best buds with the players ahead of winning. That, however, doesn't require me to pile on, nor does it mean I have to suspend objective judgement.
Hoke's a poor Head Coach, I agree with you, but the way you and the other's are treating him like an airline passenger with a fever, is beyond the pale and I will not be party to it. Moreover, I would strongly suggest that the way Rodriguez and now Hoke have been treated, you'll not soon see an "A" list coach. Would you like to be that person?
October 17th, 2014 at 3:30 PM ^
Has Hoke been treated badly, outside of internet message boards? I think the fanbase was largely behind him until this debacle of a season, and what fanbase wouldn't be calling for a firing of the head coach in this situation? The message boards are crazy, but that's the case in every fanbase of the major schools.
I agree that Rich Rod was treated horribly from people within the program, and I think that might play into a potential coach's thinking, but if the entire AD is reorganized, I don't think it's too much of a factor. It was 5-7 years ago. We've been humbled a little bit since then.
For what it's worth, I agree with you that people on here treat Hoke like dogshit when all he's done is work his ass off at his dream job for 4 years. It didn't work out, but that doesn't make him a bad guy. We owe him graditute for his service, and if I met him, I would shake his hand and say "Thanks, Coach, you are truly a Michigan Man."
October 17th, 2014 at 12:39 PM ^
Guess what with extreme passion comes extreme scrutiny.
This is one of the best fan bases around even if yes we occassionaly (re: frequently) bicker. If you want engagement, if you want butts in seats, if you want us to incessantly hit the F5 button then eventually you need a program that is in the upper echelons of the sport and not at below a MAC level. Not only that but you have leaders who are outright callous and indignant towards the fan base which helps in part pay their salaries and in entirety make Game Day a special experience.
We the fans need to be heard. We are genrally right. Hoke and Brandon need to get the Funk out of town.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:49 AM ^
Who exactly firmly established that? This is in danger of becoming a textbook example of the pitfalls of "group think".
October 17th, 2014 at 11:30 AM ^
If Brandon stays then it's proof that he is in fact Fred Jackson. Have you seen them in a room together? I bet not.
Ugh. Just realized how this sets up a Brandon in the filmroom joke.
Extra ugh. It's not a joke because it's true.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^
new coach is a Harbaugh, Miles, Mullen etc. type, what makes everyone think the firing Hoke transition will be any easier than the last one? If he goes 7-6 and we can't get a guy that everyone wants, we keep Hoke for another year.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:34 AM ^
The last transition did yield an 11-2 season with a Sugar Bowl win so there's that.
Brandon's handling of the last transition though, regardless of the Hoke hire, has a supporting role in the current struggles of the offense.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
I was thinking more of the hiring process than the on field results. Contstant rejection then eventually taking our sister to the prom is something we should avoid.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
Brandon's handling also has a supporting role in the defense not being in the bottom of division one.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:43 PM ^
We've traded a horrid defense for a horrid offense.
Are you so easily entertained.
October 17th, 2014 at 2:20 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^
For one, if Brandon stays, there's a zero percent chance that either Harbaugh is coming -- Brian has said that both on here as well as on a podcast. I can't imagine any high-profile head coach would sign underneath a micromanager like Brandon; especially one who's created such a toxic atmosphere around the program. So it's probably a coordinator of some sort at that point, which will be far from the slam dunk Michigan needs.
I think that, if he stays, we're going to be mediocre-to-bad for a long time. Like essentially everything else he has done at U-M, a Brandon-led coaching search would almost certainly be a total and absolute failure.
There's no justifying keeping him. Zero. And as a current student, I don't care if he's lowering prices next year -- far too little, far too late.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
cos(pi/2)
October 17th, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
I can imagine one. John Beilein. If he wanted, he could leave in a heartbeat. If he wanted, he wouldn't have came out and supported DB.
But as you say, no high profile coach will ever come if DB is here. Because that is what Brian said.
October 17th, 2014 at 2:17 PM ^
For one, John Beilein wasn't hired by Dave Brandon.
Harbaugh has notoriously gone toe-to-toe with the 49's front office time and time again about control -- but he'll totally be down to leave his current gig to work for AD who requires that his coaches allow him to sit in on film study.
Brian has been doing this longer and is a lot more connected than you or I. When he breaks down games or gives his opinions on something, then take it for what you want. But he's not going to say something like this if there's isn't truth behind it. From today's UV:
Yes, it is incredibly frustrating that the wheels are turning so slowly here—this is a situation in which Michigan is likely to be searching for the most important employee in the department in six weeks, with an ideal candidate probably available. If Michigan can't take its shot at Harbaugh because Brandon's not quite on the cart you'll hear the million-strong facepalm across the state.
October 17th, 2014 at 3:24 PM ^
Which is an opinion piece by Brian, correct?
October 17th, 2014 at 8:06 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 3:10 PM ^
hate to reference more of a pop culture type thing, but even after watching 4th and loud this season (AFL - LA Kiss) the coach they hired I guess is in the HOF for Arena Football as a coach. He's under a micromanaging (owner, in this case) and freaks out every single episode (drives ratings as well I guess). But just seems like another illustration that if you really want a great coach, with DB being here and the knowm micormanaging commodity he is... probably won't be able to pull a top-tier guy, regardless of the size of the check.
Can you imagine Bo having the then AD sit and watch film with him? Vince Lombardi? Not a chance.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^
. . . attendance goes Down.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:32 AM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 11:51 AM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 11:52 AM ^
So when Brandon blamed the trainers and medical staff for the Morris incident, while publicly holding Hoke blameless, he was really throwing Hoke under the bus to save himself?
October 17th, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^
there is no way that Brandon's line-in-the-sand is keeping Hoke. If firing Hoke keeps his job, Hoke is gone.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^
Whaaaaat? Wait a minute.
Makes no sense -- I have fired people that I've hired. I have responsibility to my other employees and to keep a person because it makes you look bad is crazy. Keeping them on makes you look worse.
Brandon does have some business sense -- I don't care what everyone says, he has a bit of pocket change to prove it. Also as we currently are witnessing he may also be a survivalist -- Hoke is an anchor that he will cut if necessary.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^
This is spot on. There are many very successful businessmen/politicians who have made hiring mistakes. They go on to correct those mistakes. I'm not saying that a new AD couldn't make a good hire but I don't see why DB cannot. Again, the "no high profile coach will coach under DB" is hogwash and used to further other agendas.
October 17th, 2014 at 3:34 PM ^
October 18th, 2014 at 1:00 AM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 11:33 AM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 11:33 AM ^
You can't let a AD on the hot seat make a coaching decision.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:35 PM ^
For the same reason you can't let a coach on the hot seat coach a game?
October 17th, 2014 at 2:22 PM ^
...yes...the same reason.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^
Use silver next time.