Frank Chuck

September 15th, 2017 at 4:09 AM ^

In retrospect, there were a number signs that Brady was a special player when he was at Michigan. But a lot of idiots couldn't see past Henson's 5 starzzzzz.

Thus far, Speight hasn't lost us any games. If anything, he's won us a few.

@ the "Speight sucks" crowd.

Was it Speight's fault that Chesson allowed a DB to rip a ball out from him and intercept it late in the 4th quarter?

I hyperlinked the video. Go ahead and try to explain to mw how that well thrown ball which resulted in an interption is Speight's fault.

Was it Speight's fault that the reliable Darboh didn't hang on to a perfectly thrown ball which would've ended the Iowa game?

Btw, everyone wants to blame Speight for the pick 6 against Ohio State but I never see anyone mention that De'Veon Smith whiffed on a block in the endzone which allowed Raekwon McMillan to blitz untouched at Speight who felt the heat and was forced to get rid of the ball sooner than he wanted to.

And the anti-Speight morons won't bother to mention that Speight seems to have a knack for making the perfect pass when we absolutely have to have it.

Minnesota 2015 TD plus 2 point conversion.

Wisconins 2016 immediately comes to mind.

And there are exceedingly few better examples of clutch than converting a 4th and Goal from the 5 yard line in overtime of THE GAME while down 24-17 with a potential spot in the CFB Playoff hanging in the balance.

Speight isn't perfect. He isn't Sam Darnold. He isn't Deshaun Watson. He's not even Deshone Kizer (the QB Hoke passed on to take Speight). But Speight has some intangible things to him that can win us a National Championship.

For starters, his deep ball has been on point through 2 games this season. If we can cut down on the turnovers, we will be a complete team.

Frank Chuck

September 15th, 2017 at 4:18 AM ^

He made just as many plays to give us the lead (and tie the game in overtime) as he made mistakes. People focus on the mistakes but forget the positive plays.

No one talks about Speight leading us down the field on a long TD drive after the pick 6 to give us the lead before halftime.

If you want to be fair, talk about the good and the bad. Don't simply harp on the bad.

Fezzik

September 15th, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^

If you think a QB who makes as many plays as he makes mistakes is good then you're content with 3-5 losses per year.  If a QB throws 4 touchdowns and 4 interceptions in the same game you can focus on the positive plays while ingnoring the picks all you want.  But your starting QB must always make more good plays then poor plays.

PapabearBlue

September 15th, 2017 at 5:54 PM ^

If your QB has a 4:4 td/int output in any given game and that is literally the only data point you are looking at then you've almost certainly won the game with a score of possibly 24/0.

But that's not how football works because it's a team game. Even if your QB has 4td's and 4 pick sixes he's still just a wash at best. Then it comes down to your running game (ol and rb's) to score and your defense to stop the opposing teams.

Everyone says "well speight lost the game for us in 2016". Speight didn't fail to run in a touchdown, speight didn't fail to block a Dlineman, speight didn't give up touchdowns on defense. Speight made mistakes, big ones, but lots of other people made mistakes that would've otherwise won us the game too.

No one player costs or wins a game for you, no one bad call from a ref costs or wins a game from you. I'm all for bitching about the terrible reffing, but if our D doesn't give up a TD to ohio state, if the running game doesn't fail to get first downs, then we aren't even looking at 4th down in OT.

JonnyHintz

September 15th, 2017 at 4:28 AM ^

He addressed that game. There's also the fact that JT was short. 2 penalties for 6 yards. And let's not forget OSU getting away with murder multiple times against our WRs. Speight was far from perfect in that game, but he sure as hell didn't lose it for us.

1VaBlue1

September 15th, 2017 at 8:18 AM ^

Did you not read what was written, or did your blind hate get in the way?  Smith completely whiffed on McMillan in the end zone on the pick 6.  The fumble wa sa mistake - fair to call it out.  But do you also recognize the OT TD on 4th down?  Or the TD drive after the pick 6?  Or the fact that Speight was still injured, yet still the QB that gave us the best chance to win?

Didn't think so...  Haters gonna hate.

Fezzik

September 15th, 2017 at 12:48 PM ^

Smith doesn't whiff. He doesn't even attempt to block him because he'd already ran by McMillan before noticing him.  That is terrible. Still this play should not be an interception however.  The pressure came directly to Speights face and Smith was so far off it was obvious to Speight its soon to be 1 on 1.  Speight vs McMillan.  There is a full 6-7 yards between Speight and a guy coming directly at him.  If this was a blindside hit and his arm is hit during the pass this is a different story. That is not the case.  For a guy many claim has NFL pocket awareness it would of been nice on this play. Things to do when you see a unblocked blitzer coming at you 6 yards away...

1. Throw it away! For those who claim this would likely be intentional grounding, he could of literally spiked the ball right at eligible receiver Smith's feet in the endzone about 3 feet in front of him. Or he could of attempted to throw it away in the area of his other WRs.  I am not sure on all their routes but this would have been more difficult, but still doable.

2. You see the pressure coming...make a move! Speight has a sneaky first step when he dodging sacks from his drop back.  With a defender coming directly at your face this is not easy but Speight has done it multiple times before.

3. This is what most pocket passes do and what I think Speight was attemping.  You know the route. Throw the ball where the route is supposed to end up before he breaks and before you get hit.  When doing this it usually leads to an incomplete pass because of the guesitmation. However, Speight hesitated and didn't release the ball quick enough for this attempt.

4. Take a safety. Ignore number 4. Terrible life choice.

What happened that was not good on him...

He waited until the contact happened to throw the ball. Maybe he thought his drop was deep enough he could get away with it. Maybe he thought the blitzer was slower. I don't see a way that he did not see it coming when his facemake was pointing directly at a free blitzter from 6-7 yards away. When this is your decision you HAVE to step into your throw and take the hit. Speight stepped wide left with his front drive foot and twisted his body when releasing the ball to protect himself from the hit. This, even if his arm doesn't get hit, will decrease velocity and accuracy. 

If he threw the ball a half second sooner and stepped into his throw this play has a much different outcome.  Clearly Smith earned a big negative on this play but for those who act like this pick 6 was inevitable due to a missed block, get real. Not all QBs in this exact situation throw a pick 6.

Reader71

September 15th, 2017 at 10:54 PM ^

How would you apportion the blame for the interception, by percentage? 50% Smith, 50% Speight? I ask because if you think Speight gets more blame than someone who busted his protection, you'll find very few people who agree with you. If you wrote all of that just to argue that Speight is, say 10% at fault, you've wasted your time. Everyone knows he gets some blame. Most reasonable people just believe you can't really blame him when there's a free runner coming to hit him. It's not like he held on to the ball too long.

JonnyHintz

September 15th, 2017 at 3:06 PM ^

Hence, he was far from perfect. Still didn't lose the game for us. Michigan had a chance to chew the clock in the 4th quarter. Running game couldn't get a first down to end the game. Running game didn't even hit 100 yards that game. Ohio State DBs routinely got away with murder with the ball in the air. 3rd down on Michigan's last possession of 2OT is a prime example. Blatant PI goes uncalled, Michigan has to settle for a field goal instead of first and goal. Majority of this fan base and many fans nationwide will tell you Michigan stuffed JT on 4th down. He's short, and Michigan wins. Speight wasn't perfect that game. Nobody is saying he is. But he is FAR from the reason we lost that game. Was he PART of it, sure. But that's not what you're saying. You're putting it solely on him.

Firstbase

September 15th, 2017 at 7:23 AM ^

...is a maddening game at times. It's one of the few sports where you can dominate an opponent 90% of the game, and still lose because of an odd, unlikely play or two. (Or worse, a poor play call or two by the zebras.) That's why most of us are on the edge of our seats until the fat lady sings. 

Regarding Speight, I think he will settle in and be fine and quite serviceable. I also think he may still be internalizing about his injury last year and processing through that a bit. That may be causing him to hurry a few throws as well. 

Squash34

September 15th, 2017 at 8:39 AM ^

There is a very vocal portion of this fan base that will not settle for a qb that is not perfect. The man was 3rd team all big ten and was clutch in so many games, yet people act like he is absolutely garbage. They will not be happy without an AA qb, and still would probably nit pick the few bad plays an AA qb you'd make. I think this has affected him alot this year.

charblue.

September 15th, 2017 at 9:48 AM ^

and at Ohio State, if a few things go our way, and not because of Speight who was in recovery mode from his performance at Iowa where again plays not made and passes not completed were an impact but not the reason for those losses.

Quarterbacks are always the trigger and the target for blame when things don't work out. But I certainly put winning ahead of anything else regardless of individual performance. It's a team game. Yes, Speight isn't the best qb in college football.

He is the best one Michigan has at the moment, and why is that, because everyone else who is available to challenge him and win the job has failed to take his job. If you trust the coaches to make other team decisions, then you ought to be able to trust the head coach in making this choice, because he's the one deciding that. And he has done nothing but elevate this program to rightful football pre-eminece since his much sought-after arrival. He does nothing but make players and his team better. All the evidence supports that, from the competitive nature and Michigan values instilled in his players as they perform for themselves and us each week to the team's steady climb in the rankings. 

And he is the one addressing the very issues that the haters raise as reasons for replacing Speight even though the critics choice for replacement is an untested, inexperienced kid whom they haven't even seen play in a regular season game. Not that the kid won't be ready when when his name is called. Just not now.

And once you replace the starter with another guy, there is nowwhere to go with criticism about the position except to do damage to your team internally. Changing qbs should be done when warranted as in the Florida game, but not after last week's win over Cincinnati. Let's fix the mistakes and move on.

jabberwock

September 15th, 2017 at 7:46 AM ^

If you read my post as an attack on Speight then you need some thicker skin, you must be fun on political boards.

What does Tom Brady have to do with anything?

Yeah Speight makes some great ones along with some of his horrible ones, we call that being inconsistent.  I'd trade a couple great plays for a couple awful ones.

I also notice you that you agreed with me, giving the other team points is really the only no-no  rule that a decent QB has to live by.  

You said "If we can cut down on the turnovers, we will be a complete team."

Isn't that EXACTLY what I said about no giving the other team points?  Who's been the one involved in the turnovers so far this year? . . .
Get that fixed (& his footwork I'd say) and we can win a lot with Speight.  Keep some of this sloppy shit up, and we'll be looking at that 3rd place trophy again.

 

Fezzik

September 15th, 2017 at 11:49 AM ^

So you just want to completly ignore the fact the ball was a little late and behind Chesson? The ball should have been 2-3 yards closer to the sideline thus assuring the DB has no play on the ball.  This is a catchable ball.  But clealy it was catchable for the defense too.  His location forced Chesson to stop his route momentum and lean back to make a tough catch attempt instead of finishing his route. In regards to accuracy 2-3 yards behind a WR is not a small miss.

TrueBlue2003

September 15th, 2017 at 1:57 AM ^

get to throw behind NFL offensive lines to guys like Amari Cooper and Julio Jones.  Their numbers are inflated (just like their RB numbers). 

The reason we think those QBs weren't that good is because they've never sniffed a regular NFL job.  Hard to tell how good they actually were.

But agree that regardless of how easy it was for McCarron in 2012, he at least didn't screw it up and had great numbers. 

Coker's numbers were fairly mediocre for a P5 QB.  His title was certainly a gift from the defense and running game. Correction: getting to the title game was a gift, he actually played great and mostly won them that game.

Slightly more accurate than Wilton was really the only difference. And we were literally inches away from being undefeated...sigh.

This defense probably isn't going to be quite as good as last years, so we'd need a good step forward for him (which he certainly hasn't taken yet).

stephenrjking

September 15th, 2017 at 2:39 AM ^

"Bama QBs get to throw behind NFL offensive lines to guys like Amari Cooper and Julio Jones."

Indeed. Given that Michigan's offensive talent is not yet on that level, we need Speight to be even better, I would think. Or, at least, on par with those guys.

Thing is, I think he can. 

Oddly, I'm coming to the conclusion that Speight isn't the "conservative" pick for Harbaugh. He's the ceiling guy. It seems backwards, since O'Korn and Peters appear to have better physical tools, but playing either of those guys requires Harbaugh to field a much more limited offense. Limited reads, limited playbook. 

To do everything in the offense that Harbaugh/Drev/Pep want, they need the guy who knows the whole playbook. And that's Speight. 

Reaching the ceiling requires making the right reads and executing the throws. He already makes the right reads; he is inconsistent with the throws. But only one guy can make the Harbaughffense hum, and that's Speight, if he can hit those throws consistently.

If.

B-Nut-GoBlue

September 15th, 2017 at 3:36 AM ^

We don't know jack shit, we're fans. All we do know is Speight is the guy...and it may make sense that he is THE guy that knows the playbook and can read a defense. Not everyone can. Harbaugh and co. want a guy that can and has the tools to operate a complex system. SRK's hypothesis above makes complete sense by the aforementioned rationale.

jabberwock

September 15th, 2017 at 1:31 PM ^

You win the "Poster with the Bunchiest Panties Award"

Your hyoperbole is getting very tiresome.  Upward on this thread you claim that "people act like he's absolute garbage" and now people "think that Harbaugh is just flat out wrong."

Do they?  Why don't you show us examples of these pitchfork carrying troglodytes?

Go ahaed, copy and past all these horrible attrack on poor Wilton . . .
Don't forget to list everyone in this thread that has insisted that Okorn and Peters should be starting . . .

Waiting.

I think most people in this thread and the 17 other Speight threads have ackmoledged a few things.

1.  Speight is capable of some awesome playmaking.

2.  The entire team makes mistakes that contribute to losses.

3.  Speight has some very valuable QB skills (that are often praised.)

4.  Speight has been selected by this coaching staff to start at QB and they are better judges of this than anyone on this board.

Since these are all pretty much accepted as fact, that leaves the gray (& not so gray) areas where Speight has had problems with his footwork, his throwing, his ball handling, etc.  The reasons behind them and speculation of how soon (if at all) he'll be able to correct them.

Discussing these things doesn't make someone a hater, and you'd be taken a bit more seriously if you'd remember that before getting triggered.

1VaBlue1

September 15th, 2017 at 8:28 AM ^

Knowing the playbook is not the same as executing the plays.  O'Korn has no pocket presence - that has been proven everytime he enters a game.  Every time!  Without poise in the pocket, he'll never get through progressions or wait for routes downfield to develop.  We're told Peters doesn't have huddle presence, that he just hasn't asserted himself as the leader.  If the QB isn't the leader in the huddle, the offense will go nowhere.

Even with his known limitations, Speight seems the best value of the various tradeoffs.  Why can't we just stop pining for someone else and live with what we have for the time being?  There's no sense in anguishing over something we don't have.

RockinLoud

September 15th, 2017 at 9:58 AM ^

I still think part of the playbook isn't being used, particularly all the quick passes; whether they be slants, WR screens, etc. Someone on the "quick passes" thread the other day said it was because Speight couldn't get the ball out fast enough and the D would thus have time to react and disrupt the play (straight from Drevno if I recall correctly). I think they can compensate for that in other ways, especially with the talent we have at WR now, but I still hold that it's hurting the offense by not being able to have those plays at their disposal.

WNY in Savannah

September 15th, 2017 at 10:43 AM ^

I'll agree and add more. Michigan has huge receivers and even "huger" TE's that should be deadly in the red zone.  If you go up high to Gentry or Wheatly or Bunting or even Black or DPJ, there isn't much a defender can do about it.  I remember seeing Funchess catch a pass in the end zone with an OSU defensive back right there and exasperated because he was right there and still coudn't stop it.  But with Speight, Michigan doesn't do this.  Do they not trust any of those receivers/TEs to make the catch?  Or do they not trust Speight to make the throw.  Someone recently said that fades are basically out of the playbook with Speight at QB.  I don't know if that's true, but it's unfortunate if it is.

TESOE

September 15th, 2017 at 2:24 AM ^

Wilton doesn't start the rest of the year if he doesn't protect the ball.  I'd imagine he's been carrying a football all week.  If he was a RB... he wouldn't play this week period.  

He is our best shot at this point.  If other QBs were getting more snaps in practice there would be more buzz.  There is no controversy.

 

Squash34

September 15th, 2017 at 8:57 AM ^

And I'm betting most of those were caused by strips and not on the handoff. I also would not be surprised if he had 2 fumbles in one game last year, although I'm not going to take time to look into that lol.

pescadero

September 15th, 2017 at 8:10 AM ^

"It is also true that teams have won in college without transendent QBs. Alabama is an example."

 

Can we quit acting like Alabama title teams had poor QBs? They didn't win with scrubs.

 

Outside of Coker in 2015 - Alabama has had QBs BETTER than Speight for each of their title runs... and McCarron was basically an elite college QB the years they won titles.

 

2009: Greg McElroy - #17 QBR

2011: AJ McCarron - #8 QBR

2012: AJ McCarron - #3 QBR

2015: Jake Coker - #32 QBR

Squash34

September 15th, 2017 at 9:04 AM ^

Speight is very accurate when he has a clean pocket and is deadly when play action freezes the defense because the run game is effective. I bring these things up because, bama's qbs, particularly during McCarron's run, had offensive lines full of early round draft picks, along with a very good run game, and elite WR's. If you put Speight in that offense and he would have stats like the guys at bama.

Reader71

September 15th, 2017 at 10:03 AM ^

Why didn't you list Speight? 2016: Wilton Speight - #22 QBR I suspect the reason why is that he was ranked higher than Coker and very close to McElroy, meaning the commenter you responded to was right -- we can win with him, Bama has won with guys like him, and a modest improvement to, say McElroy levels, is a reasonable expectation. I also wonder what the raw QBRs say, rather than the rankings. I'm too lazy to look. But because you tried to obfuscate to make your point, I suspect Speight's raw QBR actually looks pretty good compared to the guys you listed. Also, Speight was a sophomore last year. These guys were all older.

Reader71

September 15th, 2017 at 10:16 AM ^

I lied. I had to look. Speight had better total QBR than McElroy and Coker. He was two points off 2011 McCarron. As a first year starter and a sophomore. Dirty little trick you tried to play. But you are right, 2012 McCarron was much better. 1-4 ain't bad. Of course, you're comparing a sophomore to a senior. Let's just wait and see how it pans out.

pescadero

September 15th, 2017 at 10:29 AM ^

"Why didn't you list Speight?"

 

Because I was pointing out that Alabama didn't win with garbage QBs....

 

They won with either good (McCarron) or average (McElroy & Coker) QBs.

 

Speight - like McElroy and Coker - is an average P5 QB.

 

You can win with an average P5 QB - but if you want to win NC's, you either need a really good QB... or everything else Alabama has.