Can we stop down playing this rivalry please?

Submitted by UMxWolverines on October 8th, 2017 at 12:01 AM
Good call this morning Desmond. How many times do we need to lose to inferior MSU teams for us to take this seriously? Even most of John L's teams played us down to the wire. I'm sick of us playing down to MSU and we even looked uninspired out there. Meanwhile MSU is jacked up and played smart, ran the ball, and hung on to the ball. What is the problem here?

Comments

uncle leo

October 8th, 2017 at 12:03 AM ^

That our head coach, who is a god for some reason to people on here, has his teams woefully ill-prepared for their rivals, who always look inspired and wanting it a lot more.

Not to mention pitiful gameplans.

Albatross

October 8th, 2017 at 1:01 AM ^

Our coach spends way too much time trying to figure out how get away with more satellite camps and try to find donors to pay for team and family trips to Europe. While MSU and OSU are working on ways to kick our asses.

truferblue22

October 8th, 2017 at 7:42 AM ^

lmao...dude. he's a "god" to some people because, oh idk, he turned around a sinking ship in absolutely no time?? This roster is nothing but 1st and 2nd year players, we're getting every last ounce out of them, and we're on our second QB. There is not a single coach in America who would come to Michigan that would have done a better job to this point. 

Brodie

October 8th, 2017 at 12:35 PM ^

You're talking as though MSU statistically dominated us instead of beating us by less than a score with an incredibly even stat line where we came out ahead in every category other than turnovers.

You're right that Michigan State is also young, one team has to lose a game... what happened to be us because we got into an early hole and therefore had to pass in the rain, which is a strategically dubious move even when you don't have a backup quarterback on the field.

It sucks, but come the fuck on. The Bo Schembechler era of teams never sucking or ever having disappointing seasons because they just recruit 100 five stars is over and never coming back.

RedRum

October 8th, 2017 at 5:09 PM ^

We lost by four points with a shot to win. Last year we won by over a touchdown. The year before they beat us on a time expiring touchdown. We are not getting crushed by sparty. I am well satisfied with our trajectory. Go Blue, beat Indiana

RedRum

October 8th, 2017 at 5:09 PM ^

We lost by four points with a shot to win. Last year we won by over a touchdown. The year before they beat us on a time expiring touchdown. We are not getting crushed by sparty. I am well satisfied with our trajectory. Go Blue, beat Indiana

AMazinBlue

October 8th, 2017 at 12:06 AM ^

Dantonio owns this program right now.  He makes 2 and 3* guys play like 5* and has beaten this program 8 of the last 10 times.  

Mike Hart cursed this program with his BIG FUCKING MOUTH.  But I think I'm still more mad that Michigan ever hired Brady Hoke.  He is a bad defensive coach and a terrible head coach and his poor recruiting has hurt this program for the last three years.

Ahriman

October 8th, 2017 at 1:11 AM ^

MSU won the 2015 game on a miracle. They won this game by 4 points and Michigan had a chance to win, despite 5!!!!! turnovers, incredibly shitty weather, and playing the backup QB. That's not on the head coach. Dantonio is currently in his 11th season, Harbaugh is in his 3rd and when you look at the offensive line & QB situation he inherited, he's actually done pretty well.

The offense is terrible, no denying it. And the offensive play calls haven't been very good either. But at the end of the day, Michigan isn't going to a playoff and won't win a national championship until there is a very good offensive line and a pretty good QB.

Plus, the WR corp has been a pretty big weakness. If McDoom catches that ball, this game might end differently. And if McKeon doesn't fumble at the end of the 2nd half, the game could've been won on a field goal.

Not denying Dantonio is a good coach, but a lot of people are conflating what happened during the Hoke & Rodriguez years with now. Anyone who understands football knows Michigan is light years ahead of where it was with them and how MSU punked those teams. Plus, look at what he's done against Ohio, beat them 2011, 2013, & 2015 and lost last year by 1 point

http://michigan-football.com/ncaa/f/micstate.htm.

BeatIt

October 8th, 2017 at 6:29 AM ^

With 10 seconds left at mid field don't you tell your punter if there is a bad snap just fall on the ball?at best Sparty has the ball at the UM 40 with 5 seconds left needing a touch down. Shouldn't top 5 coaches have foresight in those situations? Isn't that why they get the big bucks. Same goes for Meyer rushing the FG unit out to kick a long FG up by 3 against psu last year.

Perkis-Size Me

October 8th, 2017 at 12:14 AM ^

You’re still blaming Hart? Really? You going to blame Carr for Harbaugh’s vanilla play-calling too?

And blaming Hoke at this point is just fucking lazy and wrong. This is Harbaugh’s third year. He has his guys in the program now and still can’t get shit going. James Franklin beat OSU and won a conference title in his third year. We’ll be lucky to make the Outback Bowl this year.

DairyQueen

October 8th, 2017 at 7:26 AM ^

100%.

That draw play on 3rd down was some "Borges-level" i-know-that-you-know-that-i-know-that-you-know-what-i'm-going-to-do...so I'm gonna do the opposite.

Good teams keep it simple.

Purdue had some real artistic plays going, but good teams don't win on gimmicks alone, they need execution, discipline, and then some deception.

Post-Fisch offense not looking so hot. Harbaugh said Fisch has "head-coach" written all over him.

Seems accurate. Rudock and pre-Iowa-injury Speight were efficiency beasts.

Really curious to see how Peters looks....

MindlessChaos

October 8th, 2017 at 2:44 AM ^

Mattison/Hoke? Actually did good jobs with your defensive schemes. I don't know about player development though.  Those Mattison Blitzes actually covered up some of the lack of talent development...   Your AD shouldnt have gone cheap on the Hoke offense and used basically a tandem coaching sitaution where you had an elite OC making a ton of $$...

 

UM recruited at a high level most of the time.... (according the recruiting rankings) but the issue is transitioning that to the field.  Coach D and staff were/are? top notch talent evaluators to the extent they cant really get many "under the radar" types anymore because local schools now pay attention to whomever MSU offers. (players like Dennard would probably never make it to Campus at MSU with current conditions) 

 

What UM has struggled with (and what every top recruiting program but Bama has struggled with) is that there is a certain "softness"  to this higher level recruits. (Do note, MSU has had its fair share of trouble with some of the higher rated ones like McDowell, Cox, etc.) I am not sure if this has to do with players not being redshirted or simply because the game comes easier to them they don't quite go through the trial by fire correctly...

Anyway, under RichRod they were extremely soft, especially on defense. IIRC Carr did leave the cupboard bear. Hoke was less soft, but the big improvement was in defensive schemes.. They took similar players with just a tad bit of hardening and made them competitive via scheming. 

 

Under Harbaugh your staff has greatly improved. However, the "softness" has not gone away much. This year it's especially obvious but it was similar every year... It makes you vulnerable tto being beaten despite any "talent" advantages. (This is the flaw every top recuiting program except Bama... Bama has both the maturirty/development factor MSU has AND the benefit of getting a crap ton of top athletes to work with... its bascially unfair.)

UM felt vulnerable to me every year under Harbaugh so far. (I was mad our offensive incompetence in 2015 made it close and it was annoying in 2016 because I knew you were very beatable but we sucked so badly xD ) 

Overall, I am not sure what UM can do to improve this besides go the OSU model. (Get a scheme that can beat Bama/other types more consistently...  It's college, you just need to be able to hold on long enough so that you can execute your scheme offensively)  I can say that originally there was some concern regarding Harbaugh and being able to recruit at a high level and have some good creativity  off the field while having a high $$ staff on it, but I am no longer quit that concerned... That should be a red flag...   I don't even know how many high level recruits you guys brought in but at the end of the day they are more hype than substance ATM. (Peppers had some significant drawbacks defensively... you guys loved him to death, but there was a reason MSU was running right at him to pick up yards where we had done poorly vs others running the ball...) 

lawlright

October 8th, 2017 at 12:06 AM ^

OSU is no longer our rival. OSU is a class above us and have been for 20 years, no Michigan is not an elite football program.

MSU is Michigan's biggest rivalry and until Michigan accepts that they will continue to lose 3/5 to Sparty.

GomezBlue

October 8th, 2017 at 1:07 AM ^

We lost because MSU wants it more.  We pretend OSU is our main rival, but MSU knows it is us and waits for this game every year.  They have owned us.  You can say it's only because our coaches were bad, but that's not the case anymore.  THEY HAVE OWNED US!  We need to understand that or it will be the same year after year.  THEY HAVE OWNED US!!!!!!!!

MindlessChaos

October 8th, 2017 at 2:56 AM ^

Before last year, our "main" rival in the B1G over the past several years was OSU... UM was good and all, but OSU is where the game mattered more.  This year its more baby steps because we really are very far from a good team... We are rebuilding and just lost 8 presumed starters, like 10-13 overall and several truely Elite Prospects (especially on our Oline and Dline)  

Realistically the Attrition has really hurt. (Sometimes you get a small thought in the back of your head wishing we could $EC it up and keep everyone, but having higher standards does have a cost) 

 

You guys probably forgot who Craig Evans and Montez Sweat(?) are, but they were on path to be huge dominating forces for us... and on a fast track to the NFL.. Craig had some grade/ drug?  issues and Sweat had something as well. Thiyo Lukusa literally choose drugs over football. (Which he now reversed... finding a place where he could do both...) Either way that hurt our depth (especially last year on the DL) and this year on the OL and DL.  

Thankfully (for us) it looks like the Defense is in a decent place and we can rebuild the depth, but who knows about the OL....

 

(Not trying to take anything away from you guys... but frankly our Oline has been horrible runblocking and UM just did as well as the others basically... Probably a bit more strength and speed getting into the backfield but  we had trouble running against Iowa and the other teams to a degree xD ) 

MindlessChaos

October 8th, 2017 at 2:56 AM ^

Before last year, our "main" rival in the B1G over the past several years was OSU... UM was good and all, but OSU is where the game mattered more.  This year its more baby steps because we really are very far from a good team... We are rebuilding and just lost 8 presumed starters, like 10-13 overall and several truely Elite Prospects (especially on our Oline and Dline)  

Realistically the Attrition has really hurt. (Sometimes you get a small thought in the back of your head wishing we could $EC it up and keep everyone, but having higher standards does have a cost) 

 

You guys probably forgot who Craig Evans and Montez Sweat(?) are, but they were on path to be huge dominating forces for us... and on a fast track to the NFL.. Craig had some grade/ drug?  issues and Sweat had something as well. Thiyo Lukusa literally choose drugs over football. (Which he now reversed... finding a place where he could do both...) Either way that hurt our depth (especially last year on the DL) and this year on the OL and DL.  

Thankfully (for us) it looks like the Defense is in a decent place and we can rebuild the depth, but who knows about the OL....

 

(Not trying to take anything away from you guys... but frankly our Oline has been horrible runblocking and UM just did as well as the others basically... Probably a bit more strength and speed getting into the backfield but  we had trouble running against Iowa and the other teams to a degree xD ) 

MindlessChaos

October 8th, 2017 at 2:56 AM ^

Before last year, our "main" rival in the B1G over the past several years was OSU... UM was good and all, but OSU is where the game mattered more.  This year its more baby steps because we really are very far from a good team... We are rebuilding and just lost 8 presumed starters, like 10-13 overall and several truely Elite Prospects (especially on our Oline and Dline)  

Realistically the Attrition has really hurt. (Sometimes you get a small thought in the back of your head wishing we could $EC it up and keep everyone, but having higher standards does have a cost) 

 

You guys probably forgot who Craig Evans and Montez Sweat(?) are, but they were on path to be huge dominating forces for us... and on a fast track to the NFL.. Craig had some grade/ drug?  issues and Sweat had something as well. Thiyo Lukusa literally choose drugs over football. (Which he now reversed... finding a place where he could do both...) Either way that hurt our depth (especially last year on the DL) and this year on the OL and DL.  

Thankfully (for us) it looks like the Defense is in a decent place and we can rebuild the depth, but who knows about the OL....

 

(Not trying to take anything away from you guys... but frankly our Oline has been horrible runblocking and UM just did as well as the others basically... Probably a bit more strength and speed getting into the backfield but  we had trouble running against Iowa and the other teams to a degree xD )