Can Michigan's basketball team win it all?
I know next to nothing about the game of basketball. I know a foul when I see one, and I can see a travel in real time, but I am clueless when it comes to strategy. That being said, I get the sense that Beilein's system will never yield a championship contender. His teams may play disciplined defense and rain three balls from half court, but they seem to lack the size, muscle, and finesse that elite college teams possess.
Can a Beilein-coached team win the NCAA championship? If not, should Dave Brandon be looking at coaches that could return Michigan basketball to prominence?
October 20th, 2010 at 2:19 AM ^
O boy, haha.
October 20th, 2010 at 2:24 AM ^
It's not as if I didn't realize this is a contentious topic. But, obviously, Michigan's basketball program used to be nearly on par with its football program in terms of achievement. I see no reason to lower expectations because of the 15+ year downturn.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:21 AM ^
Well if you look at the achievements of both teams over the last 2 years, you'll see that the bball team has actually been more successful than the football team during that time.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go gouge my eyes out with an olive fork.
October 20th, 2010 at 9:04 AM ^
fancy.
October 20th, 2010 at 9:39 AM ^
Yeah I guess so. I chose it more because I figured that'd be the most painful way to do it -- ripping them out with my hands just wouldn't be painful enough to fully distract me.
October 20th, 2010 at 10:16 AM ^
A rusty spork.
<br>
<br>(Spoon might be more painful, but it's just not as much fun to say as "spork")
October 20th, 2010 at 1:04 PM ^
eye with those little plastic swords they sometimes put in fancy drinks and the other with the tooth-pick anchored umbrella they put in fruity (as in fruit flavored) drinks. No reason you shuoldn't gouge with style.
October 20th, 2010 at 1:55 PM ^
it didn't happen.
October 20th, 2010 at 2:24 AM ^
I am clueless
You could've stopped there.
October 20th, 2010 at 2:28 AM ^
I shouldn't have just stopped at "I know next to nothing about the game of basketball." :-)
October 20th, 2010 at 9:26 AM ^
So nobody is allowed to ask a question about a subject that they don't know about?
Remeber this next time you go to have your car repaired, visit the doctor, dentist, call a general contractor. Not everyone on here pretends to know it all!
October 20th, 2010 at 2:36 AM ^
No, you should have.
Seriosuly though, I think the basketball team will be better than most expect and has a chance at an NIT bid if they play well enough together and the freshman (especially Tim Hardaway Jr, and Evan) contribute enough, even early in the season.
October 20th, 2010 at 2:45 AM ^
That is one heck of a long sentence.
October 20th, 2010 at 2:52 AM ^
Since you're clearly new to this website, let me assist you.
1. Hitting the "reply" button next to each post will allow you to respond directly to a particular comment.
2. Saying that this team has "a chance at an NIT bid" while claiming that I should have stopped at the first sentence of my post concedes the point I was somewhat subtly making via inquisitory means. Try not to repeat this mistake in the future.
October 20th, 2010 at 2:59 AM ^
So sorry about the mistake. I will not repeat in the future.
October 20th, 2010 at 3:05 AM ^
Yeah, you're better off posting rumors about Brian leaving MGoBlog.
October 20th, 2010 at 6:55 AM ^
this guy not banned after the thread about Brian? If ever one was deserved and stuff...
October 20th, 2010 at 8:11 AM ^
Totally different!
October 20th, 2010 at 8:20 AM ^
I see what...HE did there!
October 20th, 2010 at 8:42 AM ^
He's got Rampage009 loaded up and ready to go. As a side benefit, he'll have a license to kill.
October 20th, 2010 at 6:03 PM ^
have the same flare as em0 did with the name changes, but at least hes making it easy on himself...
October 20th, 2010 at 2:56 AM ^
October 20th, 2010 at 9:40 AM ^
You beat me to making that subtle correction
October 20th, 2010 at 10:34 AM ^
That's how I read it on first glance.
October 20th, 2010 at 2:59 AM ^
I was originally skeptical after watching Amaker recruits account for 2/3 of the points last year with Beilein only recruiting 2-stars like Stu Douglass and Zack Novak. However, I have been encouraged lately by the caliber of player that he is recruiting and I like the fact that our lineup, while young, will at least have some size this year. Regardless of system, Zack Novak should not be the PF in any offense!
Given Beilein's knowledge of the X's and O'x of basketball and the improvement in his recruiting, I will withold judgment. I think an NIT bid is a fair goal this year. So, I'm cautiously optimistic.
October 20th, 2010 at 3:01 AM ^
Who will have more wins - Michigan football or basketball? I think that is more of a debatable question than will we make the tournament or not.
October 20th, 2010 at 7:22 AM ^
You mean to tell me you get banned and you create another account with the exact same user name. You sir are certainly no em0.
October 20th, 2010 at 3:17 AM ^
Coach Alexander likes to mention on Twitter that this offense is not just about raining 3s, it's a similar offense to what the Cavs and some other NBA teams run.
Aside from that, yes Beilein's philosophy could win it all. Look at what Butler did last year. Beilein's teams just need a little hot streak and they could easily rattle off the necessary wins to win the tournament. I think it would be less likely that he wins a Big Ten championship actually.
And, given the age of our roster (only 2 juniors and no seniors) I dont' expect anything champion quality for a couple more years.
October 20th, 2010 at 3:27 AM ^
Butler was pretty talented...don't sell them short.
October 20th, 2010 at 9:38 AM ^
And, given the age of our roster (only 2 juniors and no seniors) I dont' expect anything champion quality for a couple more years.
Inexperience will hurt this year. Next year we should return 5 starters and about 8 guys who have seen significant minutes; experience should be a strength.
October 20th, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
Experience with people who played is a lot better with our football team too. But likewise, they may have played, but they'll still be very young. The basketball team is 2 years away from a chance at being legitimately good.
October 20th, 2010 at 5:40 PM ^
Was preseason ranked 10 last year (I guess we were 15 so that's no guarantee of success) with a first-round talent in Gordon Hayward plus two other talented players in Matt Howard and Shelvin Mack (both Hayward and Mack played for Team USA in the Under-19 World Championships); this definitely was no average team. They never fell out of the Top 25 all year.
There are similarities between the styles of play that both coaches preach and you can never say never, but I would argue that Butler didn't get to the Final Four because they were just a "hot" team. The Butler team last year rebounded better than a typical Beilein team (coming out of a zone to rebound is tough). They also play a high pressure man defense as opposed to a Beilein 1-3-1 zone. And they shot one more three pointer than we did (761 vs. 760) but at a 34% clip compared to our 29%. Not saying those things (with exception made for the 3 point accuracy) guarantee or even influence the rate of success but they do say something about the differences in style.
October 20th, 2010 at 5:50 AM ^
October 20th, 2010 at 10:07 AM ^
What would be "suspicious" about getting "lottery pick type guys?"
October 20th, 2010 at 1:20 PM ^
October 20th, 2010 at 2:57 PM ^
October 20th, 2010 at 6:19 AM ^
This team will make the tournament. It'd be better if Zeig was here, but whatever.
October 20th, 2010 at 7:02 AM ^
This team is basically starting over. I have no faith in beileins recruiting.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:02 AM ^
That's because you just don't pay attention.
1st class: Douglass, Novak, and Cronin
2nd class: Vogrich(borderline top 100 guy), Morris(top 100 guy),, McLimas, Morgan
3rd class: Hardaway(borderline top 100 guy), Smotrycz(top 100 guy), , Horford, Christian
4th class: Brundige(top 100 guy), Burke(1op 100 guy)
Notice a trend in the above? Michigan's recruiting is improving and all this with Crisler being terrible and being the only school(well along with Iowa) to not have their own practice facility. Beilein is a good recruiter and a good coach. To suggest otherwise based on one disappointing season is asinine at best.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:55 AM ^
I hope you keep a copy of this post handy for reuse. In every basketball thread on this site, someone inevitably makes an ignorant comment about Beilein's recruiting. The steady improvement in the recrutiing classes needs to be pointed out each time.
October 20th, 2010 at 9:09 AM ^
While I agree with everything that you said, I think most people can reasonably agree that Vogrich may have been slightly over rated coming out of high school and shouldn't really be counted as a + for Beilein's recruiting prowess. Sure, the guy can hit an open jump shot. However, he is a liability on defense (granted he played well in spurts), and he cannot create anything offensively. He is an athletic nightmare in a game where athleticism rules. Not a good combo.
Maybe I am just being pessimistic, but I don't see him being anything more than an average ball player in the Big Ten. I know he will get stronger/more physically imposing as he gets older. I just don't see him gaining enough to be a dangerous ball player.
October 20th, 2010 at 12:59 PM ^
October 20th, 2010 at 2:15 PM ^
"most people can reasonably agree"? No.
Most reasonable people know that he was a freshman last year who hardly saw the court and that no one knows how good he can or will be at this point in time.
October 20th, 2010 at 9:09 AM ^
I don't want to be an old man before we are really good again--but there's some progress. Compare it to the 80s and 90s, however, and you might want to shed a few hot salties. We routinely pulled in the McDonald's All Americans, the best classes in the conference.
Given that you have to write off this year, I think Beilein has two-and-a-half, three years, before the likes of Brandon render some stay/go judgement.
October 20th, 2010 at 9:58 AM ^
Beilein enters, leads our return to the Dance for the first time in a decade. His reward from fans: the impatience that results from increased expectations. Sometimes ya can't win for winning...
While I don't understand some of his personnel decisions, Beilein is a fantastic in-game coach. He has brought in good recruits. In the most important eyes of the athletic department, he has run a squeeky clean program that is slowly reversing Michigan basketball's tarnished image. His job is very safe.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:54 AM ^
Beilein and staff also just missed on a number of very talented, athletic, high-major wings: Casey Prather, Trey Zeigler (who chose to play for his dad), and most recently Dom Pointer. Given better facilities and hopefully more consistent recent success, I think Beilein's recruiting will be a real strength.
Also, the trend of attracting players with NBA lineages is interesting (Tim Hardaway Jr., Jordan Dumars, Jon Horford, Glen Robinson III; you could also sort of include Bartelstein in this list). Primarily, I think it's a strong indication that guys who are very familiar with basketball at the highest level tend to like the sort of system that Beilein runs. Also, more speculatively, I think it's going to lead to quite a bit of national exposure when this team starts winning, and that can only help the recruiting process.
October 20th, 2010 at 9:11 AM ^
horsey.
October 20th, 2010 at 10:25 AM ^
Primarily, I think it's a strong indication that guys who are very familiar with basketball at the highest level tend to like the sort of system that Beilein runs.
Moreso I think they recognize Beilein's ability to develop players. This is his strength as a recruiter; come to Michigan, play hard, get better. The flipside is that 1-and-done bluechippers don't think their game needs improvement, so they'll unlikely stopover at Michigan on their way to the NBA. I don't think Beilein's the type, e.g., John Calipari, to wine-and-dine those guys anyway. And yes, you can win national championships without them.