Brief History of M FB Recruiting vs OSU
This will be the first time in the last TWELVE recruiting cycles that Michigan had the highest rated class* in the Big Ten.
*composite ranking of all the major services
OSU has had the highest rated class in the Big Ten the last EIGHT years straight years! (and 10 of the last 11 years!) What an incredible accomplishment, and it helps explain their recent dominance in the rivalry. Here are the last 13 composite national rankings for Mich and OSU (with B10 rank in parentheses):
Year Mich OSU
2007 11 (1) 72 (!)
2008 11 (2) 10 (1)
2009 10 (2) 5 (1)
2010 17 (2) 18 (3)
2011 30 (5) 6 (1)
2012 6 (2) 5 (1)
2013 4 (2) 2 (1)
2014 20 (2) 3 (1)
2015 37 (5) 7 (1)
2016 8 (2) 4 (1)
2017 5 (2) 2 (1)
2018 22 (3) 2 (1)
2019 8 (1) 12 (3)
And that 2007 class should have an asterisk because it got decimated by attrition due to the RR transition and turmoil. The 2019 class can (knock on wood) expect stability and success in the years to come!
December 22nd, 2018 at 12:39 PM ^
Times, they are a changin’
December 22nd, 2018 at 12:39 PM ^
So what you're saying is... there's a chance???
December 22nd, 2018 at 12:43 PM ^
It's crazy how amazing Meyer's recruiting classes were
December 22nd, 2018 at 12:50 PM ^
I think too much emphasis is being put on the way OSU recruits. If you recall, OSU was beating M's ass before Meyer took over. (even before Rodriguez/Hoke)
Those pre-Meyer beatings didn't have 5 star players running all over the field except at a few vital positions such as QB.
The re-emphasizing of the Game under Tressel is still present to this day. Michigan has to do something to match that intensity.
If we assume OSU falls back to the Tressel era norm, then I think we can expect Harbaugh to win a decent clip, but I don't expect a run remotely similar to the 90s. Harbaugh hasn't really shown that he knows what to do with regards to dealing with OSU. There were glimpses in 2016 and 2017, but this year was a massive set back.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:30 PM ^
Agreed. But for the mgopompous asses you're a troll.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:57 PM ^
no, dayton. you are a troll. big difference.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:41 PM ^
58-50*-6
keep trying, you are almost caught up bucks!
December 22nd, 2018 at 4:32 PM ^
Stop with the all time record, dear God
December 22nd, 2018 at 4:53 PM ^
Believe me, I will stop if Ohio State ever catches up with us. In the meantime, you will have to deal with it!
In other words, I may never stop. ?
Should I be surprised that you don’t like to hear a historical fact that favors Michigan?
December 22nd, 2018 at 5:11 PM ^
I'm tired of seeing it go up and up and up in their favor every year while our fans bring it up as if it means something. I used to do it too, up until about 2014 then it just got sad and pathetic.
December 22nd, 2018 at 6:09 PM ^
Got it, so I am supposed to stop since you arbitrarily decided that it became pathetic in 2014. 58 is still greater than 50. Sorry that that fact offends you given recent events, but your arbitrary decision has no authority over facts, so I will keep putting it out there. Deal with it and go blue!
December 22nd, 2018 at 6:51 PM ^
The problem with that all time record was the large part of that lead was attained in the horse and buggy days and every time someone of us brings it up there's an immediate reference to the UM faithful "living in the past" because our obsolete football program hasn't done squat in decades. You just trigger backlash from ALL fan bases with it
December 22nd, 2018 at 7:02 PM ^
I am well aware of that. That is a fair point, and I know that that influences peoples’ takes on both sides. However, those games were played, and the record stands. I am proud of that record, even with the context that you are providing. Michigan football history is something to be proud of and, dare I say, promoted on a Michigan blog.
December 22nd, 2018 at 7:12 PM ^
I'm proud of it also but we just need to start winning again to stop all of this BS. Don't know about you, but I live in Ohio and I'm sick of listening to these inbreds everyday and reality is I can't argue with them until we finally start to do something about it. This year's game was just a total embarrassment at best
December 22nd, 2018 at 8:08 PM ^
I live in Indy, so it’s not quite as pervasive here. However, I hear it far too often for my liking as well. Too many osu people are not ashamed to cheat or lie to win. I agree with your gist, and, like all other Michigan fans, I agree that we need to win the game again (like we have the majority of the time ?)
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:21 PM ^
I know you're being down-voted, but I agree with this. There is no doubt that OSU brings more intensity to the rivalry than Michigan. We were at The Game last month, and I've never seen so much intensity and fervor at Michigan Stadium. There are a lot of reasons for this...most of which sound like #MichiganArrogance at its best. But the reality is that only about 50% of Michigan students come from in-state. That means 50% did not "grow up" on the rivalry. Plus, Michigan is split between Michigan and MSU allegiance. Ohio is largely a "company" state...and two-thirds of the OSU student body is from Ohio and thus "grew up" on the rivalry.
December 22nd, 2018 at 4:36 PM ^
Exactly. People think all that needs to change is recruiting rankings versus theirs. They were kicking our ass after 2001 under Tressel with pretty much even classes, one year we would be higher then them and vice versa. MSU and Dantonio beat them twice both times both teams were top ten teams. Purdue regularly gives them fits. Obviously they're going to put the most emphasis on us, but to think all we need to win is better players is foolish, considering how many times we won in the 90s with the lower ranked team.
December 22nd, 2018 at 12:44 PM ^
Not to be a downer, but OSU had a smaller class because they have fewer players leaving. That's basically the only reason ours is more highly rated. We have a great class, don't get me wrong, but this isn't exactly a case where OSU is falling behind on talent.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:02 PM ^
A previous post on the board already addressed this issue and comparing our top recruits to that of OSU this year (I believe it looked at the top 14 or so). In that aspect we also have a higher rating. So we have more recruits and better top end recruits as well.
December 22nd, 2018 at 8:09 PM ^
Was that before or after they landed Harrison?
I think their top end is slightly better than our top end, but the combination of 4 and 5 star recruits is relatively equal.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:02 PM ^
the top 16 of our class has a slightly higher average than the top 16 of their class
basically, the tops ends are close, and we took added 3-stars because we have room to take them
December 22nd, 2018 at 7:08 PM ^
Yeah, not understanding the purpose of thread because like you mentioned they have a smaller class with a higher average/player. They're 3rd in average/player behind Alabama and Georgia on the 247 Composite. I was reading Eleven Warriors and they said they can only take 18 this year. All that means is that they're returning a ton on talent from those monster 2017 & 2018 classes. Whoopee
December 22nd, 2018 at 12:47 PM ^
The most interesting part of these trends, which I've looked into before, is every time UM has a really strong string of classes in the 5-8 range, OSU seems to one up them with classes in the 3-5 range. Number 5 seems to be more our less our ceiling whereas OSU's seems to be #2 (just behind Bama typically).
OSU has had an insane run from '11 - '18 averaging just over the #3 class nationally for almost a decade. The reality is that only Bama could compete with that and UM just couldn't. The good news is it's likely even if Day is a good coach & recruiter that it's likely he reverts back to the more traditional norm for OSU of the bottom half of the top 10 (versus the top half). That UM can compete with, which means we are more likely to get a few wins in the series.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:01 PM ^
The rankings during the Rich Rod and Hoke eras were ridiculously overrated. Not sure what this data really shows
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:12 PM ^
The top players that made Hokes best two classes top six classes were nearly all busts or disappointments. The people who say Harbaugh inherited great talent from Hoke and base that on those two recruiting classes need to go back and look at the top 100 types in those classes. The Hoke guys Jim sent to the league were almost all mid to low 4 stars and 3 stars, not the highest rated guys Hoke signed.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:45 PM ^
I can't believe how many high rated underachieving guys came in the '12 & '13 classes (Bosch, Kugler, Dawson, LTT, Fox, Kalis, Pipkins, RJS, Richardson, Green, Morris), especially on offensive and even more so on the offensive line. Missing on all those o-lineman, plus Morris & Green really set back the offense.
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:00 PM ^
I really think that Hoke was incompetent at judging offensive talent, so he just snatched up the highest ranked guys he could get - guys who coaches who knew how to evaluate talent didn’t have high on their boards.
The fact that Harbaugh is going after a lot of the same guys as Alabama, OSU, and Georgia means that he knows how to spot talent. Hoke was pulling guys who would never sniff the offensive two deep at those places.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:02 PM ^
I don't think UM is going to outrecruit OSU many times but they have to stay close. UM needs to have at least top 10 classes to have a chance at toppling OSU.
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:28 PM ^
Urban recruited more nationally than any other OSU coach. Watch the Texas high school finals on FoxSports today and you’ll understand why Urban only recruited elites from the Midwest and then left the area
December 22nd, 2018 at 7:17 PM ^
I unfortunately have to live with these a-holes in Ohio and have seen many OSU-Urban interviews and remember one of his first comments when he was hired was about "recruiting speed" first and foremost.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:16 PM ^
Sorry this is off-topic.
Just read the ESPN article regarding Aubrey Soloman.
I can't post the exact quote on mgoblog and don't know how on this format as of yet.
Anyway, he said they were going to try for a waiver for immediate eligibility. He said something like "I think we have a good case, too."
First of all, who is "we"? The other tranfers?
Secondly, any idea as to what he's talking about?
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:21 PM ^
1) I think "we" very likely means, "Team Aubrey Solomon"--aka him, his mom, maybe some other person in his orbit that helps make decisions like that--maybe a former HS coach, his dad or stepdad, etc.
2) Rumor somewhere else said that he was looking into applying for a hardship waiver because apparently during workouts or drills or something, somebody on the staff called him fat in order to motivate him to work harder. Whether or not that's the reason or whehter or not he has something additional or different, I do not know. But if his primary argument is in fact, "they hurt my feelings by calling me fat during drills/weightlifting" then man, I just don't know what to say. Gotta have tougher skin than that.
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:22 PM ^
Dang, beat me to it.
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:40 PM ^
Welcome to the new age.
You are an elite 5 star D1 athlete over 6 feet tall, 250+ lbs, that can run a sub 4.5 40. You can rip the head off just about anybody on this blog without even trying.
But somebody calls you a name once and all of a sudden your very safety is threatened and you are under "hardship".
So you have to transfer right away. Coincidently to a school with a P5 football program that happens to need somebody at your position.
Sounds a little bit convenient to me.
OK, allow them to transfer right away for their "safety", but it has to be to Northern Michigan or Emory or Davidson. See what happens then.
December 22nd, 2018 at 3:55 PM ^
Thanks LKLIII, MgoHillbilly and M-dog.
I had the feeling there is an undercurrent of a little mutiny within the ranks.
We'll find out soon enough.
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:21 PM ^
Was supposedly mocked for being fat. I'm sad that a fellow Georgian is showing such thin skin if true. I didn't believe he could have gotten so worked up over the BBQ thing, but if this is the case, he's too sensitive for football and I wouldn't want that attitude around the team anyway. Good luck to him.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:17 PM ^
OSU recruiting was not stellar until Meyer. It was always good, but not Alabama-level until Meyer, even under Tressel.
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:14 PM ^
Here are the Tressel and Cooper rankings (from the Michigan / OSU recruiting diary post):
Recruiting Class Rankings Under Cooper:
1988: OSU #? Michigan #?
1989: OSU #? Michigan #?
1990: OSU Top 10 Michigan Top 10
1991: OSU Not Top 10 Michigan #1
1992: OSU #6 Michigan #7
1993: OSU Not Top 10 Michigan #2
1994: OSU #2 Michigan #3
1995: OSU Not Top 10 Michigan Not Top 10
1996: OSU #1 Michigan #9
1997: OSU Not Top 10 Michigan #5
1998: OSU Not Top 10 Michigan #1
1999: OSU #4 Michigan #8
2000: OSU #9 Michigan #27
AVG: OSU #7.9 Michigan #7.6
Recruiting Class Rankings Under Tressel:
2001: OSU #6 Michigan #3
2002: OSU #4 Michigan #14
2003: OSU #46 Michigan #5
2004: OSU #55 Michigan #6
2005: OSU #74 Michigan #5
2006: OSU #25 Michigan #10
2007: OSU #72 Michigan #11
2008: OSU #10 Michigan #11
2009: OSU #5 Michigan #10
2010: OSU #18 Michigan #17
2011: OSU #6 Michigan #30
AVG: OSU #29.2 Michigan #11.1
(Recruiting class rankings sources: Athlon's for '90, '91; Lemming for '92-'99; 24/7 for 2000-2018.) (Top 10 is calculated as #10, Not Top 10 is generously calculated as #11.)
There is some suspicion about the huge outlying OSU 2003-2007 rankings. If you use Rivals for those instead, it looks a little more reasonable:
Recruiting Class Rankings Under Tressel:
2001: OSU #6 Michigan #3
2002: OSU #4 Michigan #14
2003: OSU #41 Michigan #5
2004: OSU #16 Michigan #6
2005: OSU #12 Michigan #5
2006: OSU #12 Michigan #10
2007: OSU #15 Michigan #11
2008: OSU #10 Michigan #11
2009: OSU #5 Michigan #10
2010: OSU #18 Michigan #17
2011: OSU #6 Michigan #30
AVG: OSU #13.2 Michigan #11.1
It's a myth that Ohio State was out-recruiting Michigan before Meyer, despite their Ohio location advantage, alleged bagmen, low academic standards, what have you.
Meyer recruiting was insane. Only Alabama was better over his tenure. But he was a legend w/ two NC's before he ever even got to Ohio State. Elite 5 star recruits were spurning the south and flocking north to play for Urban Meyer, not for Ohio State.
If things return to "normal" under Day as they appear to be doing, we're golden.
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:41 PM ^
In other words the last time UM was beating OSU with any consistency they were signing top 5 classes. Also the rivals rankings for OSU are the correct ones.
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:44 PM ^
The 247 ones are strange. The Rivals ones look right.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:21 PM ^
Will be refreshing for Harbaugh's benchmark to no longer be out performing the best coach in the history of the sport.
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:10 PM ^
Did Saban retire or something?
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:23 PM ^
Guys...we are higher only based on the number of recruits. Their average rating was #2 in the country only behind Alabama.
We were 18th if you look at the average rating of the incoming recruits
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:35 PM ^
You know what? I don’t give a shit what the reasons are at this point.
Michigan just accomplished something for the first time since 2000-and-fucking-7.
Be happy about that.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:42 PM ^
Dude-we had a class of 27 and they had 14. Tell me what we accomplished?
Jesus facts bother people.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:45 PM ^
I see this argument all the time, mostly from folks with the smaller class with the higher average. I guess there is something validity to it, but only really matters if EVERY SINGLE ONE of the lower-rated players accomplishes nothing and gets processed. If our top 14 and their top 14 (which are about the same in terms of stars) all pan out, then we have X additional players who COULD be a sleeper 5* and give us a massive advantage.
December 22nd, 2018 at 1:50 PM ^
Personally i would rather have a small class higher rated (great players) than a big class of average players but thats just me
December 22nd, 2018 at 2:00 PM ^
somebody factored in their class size and our top guys matching their 1-16 or whatever class size they had. we were higher by a smidge, so there is that.
December 22nd, 2018 at 4:26 PM ^
The difference between us and them is ELITE depth.
The core of their roster is 4 star recruits, so removing the bottom our recruiting class in a vain attempt to claim superiority is intellectually dishonest and not helpful.
December 22nd, 2018 at 7:11 PM ^
relax casanova. we were talking about a single class, and mgrowold's question/issue was whether or not we had a better class than they did this year. his contention was that ohio's was worse only b/c theirs was smaller. somebody on this board did an analysis of ohio's class (i'll make up the number, i think it was a total of about 16 guys) and our top 16, and ours graded out higher on average. see, no intellectual dishonesty, just a simple, very limited comparison.