Moms?
Weather patterns?
Caviar?
Tropico
Unverified voracity!?
I'm kind of a big deal. But seriously I would guess big ten expansion.
Or Morgan Trent.
Considering how much talk their has been about it lately I would guess that.
What's more refreshing, Mentos or Sprees?
I’m going to go all in with a York Peppermint Patty.
Listening to the interview now on the podcast.
"probable" "likely" "reasonable" in terms of making the assumption that Brandon Minor's comments following 2008 concerning players not buying in were in part about Morgan Trent.
Sorry, Brian, I don't see how that's really a fair or iron-clad basis to make the argument that Trent was "lazy."
It wasn't but that started to indicate that he was not all in and a result of him not being in happened to be him not putting in all the work that was necessary to be a starting player for Michigan. There were other things that contributed to that perception, including badmouthing RR. Everything together makes up the basis that you are referring to.
I hope that Brian also included the likes of Tim Jamison, Terrance Taylor, Will Johnson, Austin Panter, Brandon Harrison, John Thompson, Mike Massey, and other players in that list of players who didn't buy in. Trent's not the only one who had a subpar year. Otherwise, that's bordering on pure and dangerous speculation.
Unfortunately, Magnus, I think this is just the current person to be "addressed."
Give it time.
Why can't it just be about the here and now, and the football? The rest of this is noise, and sickening.
It would be irresponsible to place all of the players you mentioned into the same category as Trent. All of the players were stuck in a coaching change that they had no control over, but the majority continued to work hard for themselves, their team, and their school. Mr. Trent just quit, and that is on him. Maybe some of the players you listed didn't buy in, but they also didn't give in. Mr. Trent also made public less then honorable remarks about the school that gave him a tremendous education for free (along with great athletic opportunities) and offered up hearsay rumors as fact.
"Mr. Trent just quit, and that is on him."
That's the point - how do you know this? How does Brian know this? I didn't see him dogging it on the field. The entire defense played badly. It's not like Harrison, Taylor, and Johnson (among others) tore it up on the field.
Basically, many people are saying "Oh, Trent doesn't like Rodriguez. Therefore, he quit on the team." Those two things aren't necessarily connected. Just to provide an opposite viewpoint, I submit that Trent had excellent numbers at the NFL Combine in the shuttles, the bench press, etc. I'd say that points to preparing pretty hard in the S&C program. Of course, putting up good numbers at the Combine doesn't mean he was totally committed to the football program. But it's certainly evidence that he might not have quit on the team.
He put the time into strength training for selfish reasons?
...but maybe Braylon Edwards only made big plays for selfish reasons.
Maybe Jake Long only knocked people on their asses for selfish reasons.
Maybe those guys were motivated by the chance to be millionnaires someday.
No matter the rationale, they were still making the team better by doing those things. I know Morgan Trent wasn't on the same level as those two, but his workout habits could very well have helped the team. Who's to say that Michigan wouldn't have been worse off without Trent on the field in 2008. Maybe we would have gone 2-10. Maybe 6-6. Who knows?
I base my "he just quit" opinion on his on field performances. He under performed at UofM but then miraculously over performed at the NFL combines and in NFL games? It's possible, but more likely then not that he was dogging it at UofM. Your opinion is weighted in no more fact then mine.
...is that I'm not making wild, potentially harmful accusations like "Trent quit on the team." My point is that we don't know.
Ryan Mundy turned into a better player at WVU than at Michigan (and latched onto the Steelers practice squad, I believe). Does that mean he was dogging it at Michigan? Terrance Taylor underperformed his senior year, too. Are you willing to say that he quit on the team?
Again, Trent's steady improvement dropped off when Rodriguez hired a new defensive coordinator/cornerbacks coach who was immediately fired. I'm not saying that was entirely to blame, but that can't be entirely removed from the equation, either.
I don't think my accusation is very wild or anymore harmful then you comparing the other players you mentioned to Mr. Trent. It would seem they handled the coaching change with more maturity. Call it quitting, saving himself for the NFL, or trying to avoid injury but I watched the games and his effort level was not consistant. I don't think he took every play off, but it looked like he did take some off.
Athletes usually develop into better players the longer that they are in college programs. It would only be natural for Mundy to be better in his last year at WVU then his previous at UofM. It could also be a system thing, but I admit I don't follow WVU football enough to speak to it. I am not sure Terrance Taylor underperformed as senior as much as he didn't meet fans expactations. Trent, Mundy, and Taylor are all different players who handled adversity differently. It would no more responsible for me to compare them all as identical situations then when you made your earlier comparison.
Okay, my comments must have gone over your head, so I'll try to clarify:
I was NOT saying that the other players quit. I said that if Trent "quit on the team" (not my words) just because the defense was bad as a whole, then why is Trent the only one being called out as a quitter? Personally, I'm not sold on the idea that ANY of them quit.
You will be hard pressed to find a football player who doesn't take an occasional play off. Yep, even the best players don't give 100% effort on every play. Football is a tiring game, as I'm sure you don't need to be told. If you watch any given player for an entire game, I can almost guarantee that you'll see him loaf on at least a play or two.
"I am not sure Terrance Taylor underperformed as senior as much as he didn't meet fans expactations."
This is a fair assessment. Maybe Taylor's 2008 performance was the best he could do under the circumstances . . . so why can't you say the same thing for Morgan Trent? You seem certain that Morgan Trent "quit" on the team and "underperformed", but Taylor simply "didn't meet fans expectations." It seems as though you're cherry picking your criticisms.
Gibson was the cornerbacks coach and has been since his arrival here. If you're going to blame Trent's lack of production on a coach, name the correct coach.
I don't know how to tell you this . . . but you're wrong. Tall coached the defensive linemen, Hopson coached the linebackers, Gibson coached the safeties, and Shafer coached the cornerbacks in 2008.
...but you're incorrect. I met with Coach Shafer and attended many practices. Shafer coached safeties and Gibson coached corners. Midway through the season, Shafer took over the entire secondary.
"Midway through the season, Shafer took over the entire secondary."
So what you're saying . . . is that Shafer was the cornerbacks coach.
Thanks for the affirmation.
Hey, the guys at Rivals have said that Shafer coached cornerbacks. I'm inclined to believe people whose job it is to know these things.
...ever coached before? Can they go watch practice and tell by who's conducting drills who's coaching which position?
If you're more inclined to believe media members over qualified coaches who have a) met with the Michigan coaches b) coached that position themselves and c) have watched them conduct drills in practice, I'm more inclined to find you less credible. Would you like people here to take the word of the rivals guys over your own?
Me, I take the word of coaches over the word of journalists when it comes to coaching.
"Have the guys at Rivals ever coached before?"
I don't know. Probably not.
"Can they go watch practice and tell by who's conducting drills who's coaching which position?"
I sure would hope so. It's not that hard to figure out. I'm guessing my most people on this board could figure, Hey, Bruce Tall is spending all his time with Will Campbell and Mike Martin. He must be the defensive line coach!
"Would you like people here to take the word of the rivals guys over your own?"
On something like this, yes. If we were talking about reading defenses or pass rush technique, maybe not. If we're talking about which coach coached which position, then yeah, I'd expect people to trust "journalists" whose livelihood depends on knowing these things.
So you're on record as trusting journalists over coaches when it comes to coaching. Just so everyone's clear.
Do you take journalists' words over lawyers when it comes to the law? Their words over your doctor's when it comes to your health? Just wondering how far this goes.
Oh, by the way, methinks coaches' livelihood depends on coaching knowledge a little more than journalists' livelihood does on coaching knowledge.
No, you're convoluting my point.
I think journalists who spend their lives immersed in Michigan football and who observe practices frequently know who coaches what position. This has nothing to do with "coaching knowledge." It doesn't take a football whiz like Bill Walsh to figure out, "Hey, Scott Shafer works with Morgan Trent all the time, and Morgan Trent is a cornerback, so Scott Shafer must be the cornerbacks coach!"
Oh, by the way, methinks that the moderators at Rivals have spent more time around Michigan football than you have. I'm not doubting that you watched them practice or met with Shafer or whatever, but that's their job. If I remember correctly, you're an ex-football coach who works as a bartender or something. (I'm not insulting bartending - I'm just saying that your full-time job isn't comprised of documenting Michigan football.)
Oh, by the way, methinks that the moderators at Rivals have spent more time around Michigan football than you have.
I can glean more from one practice than they can from an entire year's worth of watching drills (which is all they'll ever get, btw, they'll get kicked out once small group, large group, and team sessions begin).
I don't know what you do for a living, Magnus, but I'd be willing to be you could watch a colleague for one day and know more about what he/she is doing than a journalist covering him/her.
Please, both of you stop arguing. Nobody cares.
Look, I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt. I wish there was something I could do about it, but there's not. I trust people who cover Michigan football as their full-time jobs rather than a message board poster who met Scott Shafer once. I'm sorry that your ego has been destroyed by this so much, but I think you'll live.
There's really nothing else to say.
It's about you coming on here and being so high and mighty about not trashing Lloyd Carr and Morgan Trent, and then you hypocritically and erroneously trashing another coach.
Please get off your high horse, Mr. I-have-23000-mgopoints-so-I-can-afford-to-be-a-douche-bag.
Dude . . . you said yourself that Scott Shafer was the cornerbacks coach. I don't even know what you're arguing about anymore.
But nice ad hominem attack. You must be very proud.
This post:
Look, I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt. ...I'm sorry that your ego has been destroyed by this so much, but I think you'll live.
Followed later by this post:
But nice ad hominem attack.
. . . and the substance of your argument dwindles to zero. Good talk.
Skinny, narrow little yellow boxes...
And to think, all's I said was "Brian's on the radio now..."
...that you can't see the point tally anymore.
And to think, all's I said was "Brian's on the radio now..."
The ways of MGoBoard are many and mysterious.
If I remember correctly, you're an ex-football coach who works as a bartender or something. (I'm not insulting bartending - I'm just saying that your full-time job isn't comprised of documenting Michigan football.)
You're lying to yourself if you maintain that statement wasn't written in order to be disparaging.
That was absolutely not meant to be disparaging. It was meant to point out that the guys at Rivals have a full-time job of documenting Michigan football; steve sharik's job does not entail that type of connection with the program, at least not that I know of.
But I do think you'd have to agree you could see how that statement could be taken that way, not that it really matters, though. And quite honestly I don't know why I chose to single out that part for scrutiny.
In conclusion: Can't we all just get along?!
I dont fucking understand why it isnt just that Tent didnt like the new system, didntn get along with RR, and that was it? There is 0 evidence of any validity, nothing beyond mere retrospective rationalizing, to say that Trent quit or was lazy. Many players on many teams, including for UM under Carr, had bad attitudes, didn't get along with coaches, but did not quit and were not lazy. All this speculation about Trent as an athlete correlating to Trent as he got along with RR is just bullshit, and is especially irresponsible to spread by someone with influence in the fanbase the program like Brian has. He is only polarizing the base even more.
Spain?
Bears?
What he would do for a klondike bar?
Holy crap! Is he talking about the greek financial bailout and the Dow????
Inquiring minds want to know!
And nobody can spare a brother a link?