HARBAUGH!
/s
He has Harbaugh, and he has this camp invite. But does he have some dork working for Rival's approval yet? Cuz if not, I think you are premature here.
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List of Elite 11 QBs in Michigan history.
Hm.
- 2001- Matt Gutierrez
- 2002- Clayton Richard
- 2006- Ryan Mallett
- 2009- Devin Gardner
- 2012- Shane Morris
- 2015- Alex Malzone
Scary, but on the brightside look at it this way:
- 2001- Matt Gutierrez - got injured couldn't regain job from Robot Henne
- 2002- Clayton Richard - could not beat out Robot Henne, left for greener pastures in baseball right?
- 2006- Ryan Mallett - Did well at...Arkansas
- 2009- Devin Gardner - Didn't get proper coaching.
- 2012- Shane Morris - Ibid.
- 2015- Alex Malzone - Yet to be seen, 1 Freshman spring game doesn't define a career.
Agree. Let's hope the quality of our coaching has changed. I expect it has; the proof will come in September.
or the QB class is really weak. No QB class are the same from year to year. You can have one shitty QB class in one year and have a strong QB class in another year.
A lot of variables that could account for their post-high school performances.
A lot of fans tend to look at rankings in a vacuum where they're all the same year to year when it's really not. The #1 QB in one class could be the #10 QB in a different class. It's all subjective and we'll know until NFL draft to see how they develop.
"No, it's our previous coaching..."
This is an oversimplification, and you're keeping it going. It's simply not true. Of the five players who have even had a chance to play at Michigan (so excluding Alex Malzone), two of those guys would have played their entire careers for Lloyd Carr. Carr had a very good track record of producing quarterbacks. Matt Gutierrez didn't fail to succeed because of injuries. Gutierrez suffered an injury and then lost his job to Henne, but he went on to start at Idaho State and hook up with the Patriots. Clayton Richard had a chance to be coached by Carr but eventually gave up football in favor of baseball, which was probably a good choice based on how far he has made it in baseball.
There are lots of reasons why quarterbacks "fail" to pan out, including those listed above. Plus the fact that Mallett is/was a bit full of himself and would likely have left whether Rodriguez was hired or not.
Now, you can blame poor coaching for Gardner and Morris, but maybe, just maybe, they weren't bound for success in the first place. People had questions about Morris coming out of high school (like, ahem, Trent Dilfer), and he still has two years remaining of quality quarterback coaching. If he doesn't get the job done at all under Harbaugh, then I think you can definitely scratch off your "crappy coaching" excuse.
Was it bad coaching, bad mechanics, bad system, something else with Gardner? We will never know, unless perhaps he nails it with the Steelers and we come to the conclusion that his talents were wasted at Michigan.
And Shane? Same thing goes, but, as you said, he has the opportunity under Harbaugh to help us better understand if is was the previous regime that didn't provide the right system/coaching for QB success, or if it was a poor assessment of talent by the staff and the recruiting analysts that had at one time made Shane a 5-star talent.
I will say, though, I'd rather have a QB that is recognized as a talent and invited to the Elite 11 than not. Maybe it's nothing but window dressing and it doesn't mean there are other QBs out there who won't be better, but it does make me more excited, as of now, for his arrival on campus.
He was invited. But he was not in the "elite 11".
He was in the Elite 11 competition but was not a finalist.
Michigan's finalists are Gutierrez, Richard, Mallett and Gardner.
One of the four played out their eligibility at Michigan.
Gutz transferred to Idaho State for his 5th year after Henne took his job when he got hurt opener week 2004, Clayton Richard was only at Michigan for two seasons before he went to play pro baseball and Mallett was advised by Carr to transfer out.
I've always felt Gutz was going to be great. IMO, he was the best QB on that team. But he threw out his arm trying to keep up with Henne and co. and never recovered.
He was an NFL QB and never played a down at the D1 level, right?
Richard is an MLB starter, he's definitely got the stuff, just never got the opportunity.
Mallett was victim or Carr/Rich Rod.
I will take all 3 of those guys with 4 years of Harbaugh over anything we've seen in recent memory except Denard with Rich Rod.
Those were 3 amazing talents.
I'd also take Gardner and Morris at a slightly lesser level with 4 years of Harbaugh and a REAL Michigan team around them and not this bullshit we've seen post-Lloyd Carr.
Too soon on Malzone.
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We broke them.
This is the most excited I have been during a off season in a long time. Harbaugh has brought tons of excitement to the fanbase and program.
Wonder if Trent Dilfer will give him more than a rep or two.
Are there exactly 11 QBs in the finals? Pretty cool.
I believe it is 18.
Should be elite 18.
I believe 18 players are invited, but 11 are chosen as the "elite 11". Shane Morris was chosen among the 18, but was not considered among the elite 11.
But what do I know, I support a team in the Big 10. Counting is hard.
but they should put in a subliminal 18 into the logo and then invite a really good basketball recruit and then some random guy from New York(ish) who is below average at everything. Maybe in a couple years rebrand to E1i9e.
I think they take 20+ QBs for the Elite 11 so it isn't that big a deal to get an invite. Still good for Peters. Pretty sure Henne was invited also but didn't go for some reason.
Its less than 20, and I bet its a pretty nice honor to the kids who get invited...
It won't define their careers, but its certainly a nice recognition.
I tend to agree that this is more an accolade than it is anything important. However, I don't think they give it to just anyone, and there are several very good quarterbacks left out each year.
We take top 20 QBs in our classes all the time. Many of them don't pan out. See the above list. It's a nice little accolade but it's not like it's top 5 or 5 stars or anything like that. How many QBs are consensus 4 or 5 stars anyways? Probably not many more then 20.
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Yeah, but some of those schools start juniors, sophomores, or even freshmen at quarterback. So taking that into account...
...yeah, it's still a pretty big deal.
Not sure I'd agree. Since the consensus is he did well both days and Harbaugh, I like his chances but I felt that way before this was announced. It's a nice honor for him though.
Trent Dilfer: very good college QB, high NFL draft pick, long-time veteran player, Super Bowl winner, professional football analyst.
Much like "getting chosen for the Elite 11," that's a pretty damn good resume, even if he's not Peyton Manning or Drew Brees or Dan Marino.
but he's a terreible analyst. Asking for his opinion about a football game is asking to be slowly choked by plattitudes and some bullshit about "leadership". He might have been a competent, replacement-level player who managed to luck into a super bowl, but he's not some magic QB whisperer or anything. He might be a terrible evaluator of talent.
Maybe he is a terrible evaluator of talent, but maybe a lot of people are that you respect. Tom Jackson might be a terrible evaluator of talent. So might Dan Marino. There are lots of analysts on television who might not be able to evaluate talent, but that's not necessarily their job. There are also great football players and coaches who wouldn't make good analysts, and there are great evaluators of talent who weren't good football players.
As far as this clip goes, I think you can understand what he's trying to say. It's funny and everything, but let's be honest - most football analysts and football players are not known for their mastery of the English language.
It's rare that you find someone who is good at playing, identifying talent, and commentating. Bill Belichick was not a stud football player, but obviously he can coach the hell out of the game of football. Charlie Weis didn't play college football, IIRC, but he went to the Super Bowl as an offensive coordinator. Maybe someone like Tony Dungy falls into that triple-threat category, although he did not have a stellar professional career. I would say Jimmy Johnson is a good talent evaluator and commentator, but I don't know how good of a player he was. Heck, our very own Jim Harbaugh is a superstar, but he would probably not make a great regular talking head on a show like NFL Countdown because he's so intense.
And aside from all of that, I don't know that Trent Dilfer's job is to identify the best football prospect. The Elite 11 is a contrived variation of the sport of football, in which all of the evaluation takes place on sunny spring/summer days, turf fields, wearing shorts and t-shirts, with no threat of a pass rush, etc. Dilfer identifies the guys who can comprehend things in a classroom and then look the prettiest in shorts and short sleeves, not the guys who go out on a football field in cold weather, rain, snow, with 320 lb. defensive tackles hitting them once or twice a series, etc.
We can watch the Home Run Derby and see someone bash a ton of batting practice baseballs out of the stadium. The guy who hits 28 home runs on that night might win the Derby, but when the season ends with him having 30 home runs and another dude bashing 51, then you realize, "Oh yeah, the Home Run Derby isn't actual baseball."
1) I don't respect Tom Jackson or Dan Marino as talent evaluators. I respect (or perhaps should say "think highly of") a very small number of pundits who do so. (Daniel Jeremiah, Bill Polian, Jon Gruden... and that's about it).
2) What the crap are you saying? The Elite 11 has absolutly NO value if not for identifying talent. If your defense of Dilfer is that he just seems bad because he's not trying, that's pure BS. Of course it's not 11-on-11 football, just like BP isn't baseball. Scouts still can learn alot about a player in BP, and can identify TALENT based on it: bat speed, swing, even things like how he prepares (is he trying to mash everything? Is he spraying the ball to all fields? is he trying to pull everything?).
3) I think that saying "you can't win if you lose" is a pretty dumb thing to say by anyone's standard.
Look, I agree Trent Dilfer's career is amazing, and can only be viewed as mediocre by comparing him to the impossible scale of elite of the elite. But I have never seen any indication that he can identify talent or do anything but spew nonsense when talking about football. Furthermore, the guy waves his super bowl ring around like it gives him carte blanche to act like he's some great football guru. The dude even acosted Ozzie Newsome at a super bowl reunion for having the audacity to let him leave in free agency.
1) I don't know who you respect as talent evaluators, nor do I really care. That's not the point. The point was that good game analysts =/= good talent evaluators =/= good players =/= good communicators. Each of those jobs requires different skills.
2) The Elite 11's "value" is in identifying the players whose skills translate best to Elite 11 drills, which do not include actual football. It's not about whether Dilfer is trying or not. It's about the fact that the Elite 11 itself - and the Rivals 5-star Challenge, The Opening, etc. - is a flawed tool for evaluating football players. The Home Run Derby does not identify baseball talent; it identifies people who can hit 75 mph fastballs a long way. The Longest Drive Competitions don't identify good golfers; they identify who can wind up and drive a ball 450 yards. The best way to find somebody who's good at football is by watching them play actual football.
3) "I think that saying 'you can't win if you lose' is a pretty dumb thing to say by anyone's standard." First of all, that's not what he said. Second, I can glean what he's trying to say, and you probably can, too. Third, if you were recorded at your job or in everyday life, you would probably have your fair share of bloopers, too. Shaquille O'Neal was a great athlete, but he tripped on camera. I just saw a recording of Neil Everett from ESPN saying some really stupid stuff. I've seen clips of Tom Hanks screwing up lines unintentionally. I'm guessing Winston Churchill probably fouled up a quip or two at some point, but he wasn't on TV for hours every week. That clip doesn't really show us anything about Dilfer except "he screwed up one time," which could be applied to all of us.
Peters will be good with the coaching he will get in A2.
To me, this whole thing has become a Trent Dilfer self-promoting event.