Is Beilein recruiting any Kevin Pittsnogle-esque players, or have any that redshirted?

Submitted by InRichRodWeTrust on March 12th, 2010 at 11:04 PM

I remember watching his teams at other schools and he always had a post player that was really good at three point shooting.



March 13th, 2010 at 10:16 PM ^

Well, it's splitting hairs a bit but their games are different. Although Pittsnogle operated mostly on the perimeter, I wouldn't exactly classify him as a wing. By "wing," I mean a guy who can actually put the ball on the floor and dish, in addition to being able to shoot. Smotrycz can do this.


March 12th, 2010 at 11:20 PM ^

Was Pittsnogle a Pittsnogle type player when he was being recruited?

I don't know the background, but if he wasn't that lends a lot of credibility to the "let's let our coach with the proven track record do his fucking job" crowd.


March 13th, 2010 at 12:36 AM ^

More important than a post who can shoot threes is a big man to add size down low. We've been a bit unlucky in that regard, losing Cronin to injury and Benzig to NCAA qualification issues. Hopefully, Horford comes on (and add some bulk) followed by Amir Williams the year following. Smotrycz, Hardaway, Horford and (oh please commit) Ziegler will make for a great new nucleus.


March 13th, 2010 at 9:01 AM ^

is the obvious answer (as posted by others) but he may still be a bit of a project. I don't expect him to really contribute until he is a junior. From what I've heard is that he was really dominated in practice for the 1st half of the year and has now begun to catch on. He needs to get some weight on his frame. One good thing going for him is that since he did one year at an academy and he redshirted, he turns 20 in a month. So he will be an old freshman and even better a really old senior. He should be able to continue to grow into his body and contribute later.

Blue boy johnson

March 13th, 2010 at 10:03 AM ^

Ben Cronin, 7' 265 would have been the closest thing Pittsnogle 6'11" 255, unfortunately his career appears to be over. Guys with Pittsnogle's height and weight who like to shoot 3's, are pretty rare, especially on the college level.

Blue boy johnson

March 13th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^

I don't think so, at least not in college. Same with Bill Laimbeer, there was no 3 point line when Big Bill played for ND and I don't think Digger would have let him shoot them anyway.

Bob Lanier would have been fun to watch, I'm sure he would have extended his range, had there been a 3 point line. Make Tom Boerwinkle, Clifford Ray and those guys come out and guard him, opening things up for Jimmy Walker(Jalen's Dad) and Dave Bing

Blue boy johnson

March 13th, 2010 at 1:13 PM ^

I think he would and will, but again anybody like that is going to be highly recruited and the competition for his services fierce.

To me Duke and Coach K basically play the same style as Michigan but with more talented players. Duke has "struggled" in recent years because their teams have no inside presence.

Plumlee is a good example of that type of recruit and he is very interested in Michigan, but we are going to have to beat out Duke for his services. Finishing 2nd in recruiting doesn't get you shit.


March 13th, 2010 at 11:28 AM ^

McLimans and Smotrycz are both, I believe, slated for the "4", which, in Beilein's offense, is generally a guy with "post" height, but an outside stroke - Pittsnogle is sort of the definitiono what Beilein looks for from that position.

Neither McLimans nor Smotrycz are thought to be good post players (neither, of course, was Pittsnogle), but are supposed to be good shooters.

If you're in search of post offense, the only person we really have next year will be Morgan - who has a solid offensive game within 10 feet. We'll definitely miss Sims' range from the 5 spot, but Morgan isn't an offensive cripple, if he's healthy. Horford seems to be universally slated for "physical development" time.


March 13th, 2010 at 11:46 AM ^

Yeah, I'd agree that he played similar to what Beilein looks for out of the position, but I'd say that Sims' range was somewhat less than ideal for what Beilein is looking for (he's not that great a three-point shooter). Also, Sims is actually a very effective post-player on offense, unfortunately, it's trapped in the body of an NBA small forward.


March 13th, 2010 at 10:14 PM ^

Does anybody really expect Belien to hit some sort of historic heghts while at Michigan?

Seriously, he had ONE magical run to the Elite Eight with a team that caught fire. He is at or near 55 years old. His career is very much otherwise undistinguished.

Many here have pointed out how Belien needs Hizz Playazz to fit The System and until and unless he gets them, well, this season is an example of what will happen.

Folks, Michigan basketball is a different (read: Big Ten) monster than what Belien was able to do in the Big East (well, really, he wasn't able to do much there, was he?).

In short, we are who we thought we were (if we were realistic): not much, and with a coach who is, you know, kinda pretty good, a good teacher of the game, but not a great recruiter. And he is staring up at the Midget of Iron Mountain, with no real way to overcome what is going on in Lansing.

I don't see why Michigan fans expect anything other than what happened last year with Belein. A nice season, losing one third of the games, and maybe some kind of run in the NCAA tourney where if everything goes right, you might make it to the final eight once every decade.


March 13th, 2010 at 10:31 PM ^

First of all, the Big East is frequently a stronger league than the Big Ten, so I don't understand why you'd belittle what he did there (at a school with virtually no natural advantages).

Second, if you look at his year-by-year Big East records, you'll see an upward progression each year except the last - when he faced a wholesale rebuilding job (and was picked to finish next-to-last), but still salvaged a 9-7 record. He most likely would have had them in conference contention had he stayed.

Third, the guy never recruited the kind of players at WVU that he is now. That was the main reason he came here, for access to more local talent. The team he fielded last year was far from ideal for his system. It had two former blue-chip recruits, sure, but after that, a bunch of undersized role players who mostly couldn't shoot. Look at the guys we have signed this year and are in on for this year and next. This is better caliber of player than Beilein has ever signed. If he can achieve success with second-rate guys, I'm excited to see what he can do with a team full of top 100 players (and actual depth, so we won't have to keep trotting out guys who shoot 29% from 3 for 35 minutes a game). We will hopefully never again start a 6'4" power forward, for starters.


March 13th, 2010 at 10:45 PM ^

You guys who champion Rodriguez and Belein act as if they are martyrs.

If both were so freaking great, the mess both are currently in wouldn't exist. Sorry, but great coaches win and win period, and don't have fans making excuse after excuse for them.

Unfortunately, that is what Michigan fans are reduced to these days: praying that The System will save us ONCE our system coaches get Their Playazz to enable them to fully install The System and win one national championship after another.

Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

And as for Belien with a roster "full of top 100 players," the current recruiting class features the #45 ranked shooting guard and yeah, the #17 ranked power forward whose other offers (according to Scout) are from Rice, UCF, and Oregon State.

Look, I know it's not cool here, or on Scout (the soulmate of this board since MgoGheyPoints were implemented) to criticize anything Michigan, but this basketball program is going to be mired in mediocrity for the rest of the lifetime of anyone who is near 50 years old or older.

And the football team is not destined for greatness anytime soon either.


March 13th, 2010 at 11:57 PM ^

I have almost nothing good to say about RR. I think he recklessly approached his position and caused great harm. Maybe he can turn it around, maybe not.

The situation is different with Beilein. His system, frankly, did work. The players, however, did not. How many times did wide open players miss wide open threes? The OSU game wouldn't have been close if Stu didn't suddenly remember how to hit a shot. How much better would the team have been with a center like Cronin or Benzig? I don't pity the guy, but the team being a disappointment falls on the players as much as the coach.

Last year, we had one big recruit - Morris - who will be a star.
Next year, we have the #50 player in the nation, but need Zeigler and a big. It is very likely to happen. We'll then have a top 10-15 class. Top recruits are seriously considering UofM where they hadn't for years. Beilein is a good coach, but the team (in its entirety) was a big disappointment. He understands that he needs slightly different players in the Big Ten and that his "system" isn't gospel. He'll be fine. The team will be fine.


March 14th, 2010 at 8:40 AM ^

But define "fine."

If by "fine" you mean around .500 in league play and an average of one trip to the NCAA Tournament every three years, well there you go.

For three years now I've read, on this and other Michigan boards, people continuously excuse what has gone on in basketball and football. Everyone from the media to assistant coaches to secret cabals of evil saboteurs to fans who don't "support the team" have been blamed.

And none more blamed or ripped than the players.

At what point does the head coach become the focus of the current status of the teams?

And who is this "big" that is "very likely to happen"? I also appreciate your enthusiasm for landing Ziegler--but dont share it. And what if he doesn't sign on with Belein? What then?

I don't know. I didn't expect much out of the Belein hire and so far that's what is happening. Any way you slice it, next year doesn't look good either. It just seems like more excuses are going to have to be invented.


March 14th, 2010 at 2:37 PM ^

They are totally different situations.

RR took over a program that was very good, but not at the level we all demand for Michigan football. He ruined a decades long bowl streak. He gave us the worst records that anyone alive can remember. He brought piped-in music. He brought NCAA violations. And yes, most on this board have defended him as though he were Jesus. Fair criticism is always met with negative points. Excuses have been the rule ("he doesn't have his players", "he has his players but they're too young", "people are out to get him", etc.). At this point, however, many are beginning to see reality and understand that RR wins this year or is fired.

Beilein took over a bball program mired in mediocrity. Ellerbe and Amaker were terrible coaches. Big time recruits no longer even considered the program. If you looked at the Rivals Top Whatever, none of the top players had UofM as a possibility. Now, we are getting looks from top players. Beilein, at first, felt he could succeed in the Big Ten without a big man. After his first season, he admitted he was wrong (RR would never do that) and would alter course in recruiting. Bad luck cost of 2 seven foot bigs. Next season (although I haven't confirmed with my source), we will likely have Horford. A great big? No. A tall kid who is still growing into his body? Yes. If we don't get Zeigler, it's a huge setback, but life will continue.

"Fine" doesn't mean a trip to the NCAA every three years. We will go nearly every season. We will have an occasional WTF season like this one. As a good coach, however, we will win games and continue to attract the attention of top recruits.