Beilein and hotseat...is it fair?

Submitted by UMxWolverines on February 6th, 2016 at 3:14 PM

I realize this seems to be a trend with John Beilein teams...it's either feast or famine in terms of offense because of the lack of a big man most of the time. I don't remember the defense being this bad overall ever though. 

Something has to give though. I don't know if it is fair to say he's on the hotseat just yet, but defense has to improve next year and recruiting has to improve. 

Izzo had quite the stretch during the 2000s where they were pretty mediocre. I don't think Beilein should be on the hotseat, but improvements must be made. 

Comments

Mr. Yost

February 6th, 2016 at 4:36 PM ^

This team was never that good. I'm sorry that's the harsh reality that people couldn't see in July and August.

But the fact that people think this team should play better is joke.

No this team should BE better talent wise. If you want to take your shots...that's the problem.

It's not that Michigan isn't playing well, it's that they're not that good to begin with...and that lies at the feet of the head coach. It's just a shame people wanted to go all "in Beilein I trust" when people like myself were pointing this out when we were missing out on recruit after recruit.

Mr. Yost

February 6th, 2016 at 5:31 PM ^

It's not just the guys that we missed out on that we were in the final 2 for...it's also the guys we should have been in on.

I'll use an anology we all understand.

Harbaugh misses on Isaac Nauta...it sucks, we're upset.

Harbaugh goes and gets Nick Eubanks and Devin Asiasi.

I LOVE that Beilein develops guys and makes them better than the recruiting services say they are. LOVE IT. But it's no secret that when we were great, it was at the same time we were recruiting well.

Basketball is a game of difference makers, you either have them or you don't. It's not impossible to win without them. But unless you want to be that cinderella team that gets hot in the tournament and upsets teams...you need consistent talent coming through your program.

Does anyone have any doubt that this team could get into the tournament and make the Sweet 16? No. They could get hot the first weekend and win a couple games. No question.

But "is that the point?" is what we all have to ask...if it is. Then keep doing what we're doing. Field teams who are going to be #7-#12 seeds and hope you make it to the second weekend every few years. You can be a cute cinderella story.

OR

Go get top talent, develop THOSE guys...and be the team that's trying not to be upset. I personally would rather be that team.

Mr. Yost

February 7th, 2016 at 3:27 AM ^

We got McGary, GRIII, Irvin, Walton and Chatman without being dirty.

The thing is that Michigan should have top 50 players EVERY YEAR.

Not the entire class. But 1 or 2.

Go look at the teams you all want to compare us to and then look at how many have at least 50% of their recruiting class in the top 50. Then how many have 50% in the top 100?

Do that then go find Michigan. It's not even close.

It's no surprise that when Beilein was at his best at Michigan. He was coming off back to back years with 2 top 50 guys in the class.

You don't have to be dirty to consistently get those kids.

You probably have to be dirty to consistently get 2 top 10 or 15 kids each year.

Double-D

February 6th, 2016 at 6:22 PM ^

Get some big men. McGary proved you can play in this offense. Play fucking defense. Forbes can't score if he is covered or if you shadow him so please explain why he is left alone to bury you. Toughness? WTF? The flip side is if we had everyone back through their senior years we might be talking two or three more final fours.... It is so frustrating to watch a great coach and a man with high integrity struggle with basics. Maybe only having one technical foul in your career at Michigan says something is wrong.

Edit. Huge props for making us respectable again. Now it's time for another beer.

A Fan In Fargo

February 6th, 2016 at 8:56 PM ^

I don't know what it is about this team. If someone pushes or elbows me on the court, I'm doing it right back harder and sneakier asap. You mess with me and I'm getting in your head all game buddy. Good luck punk! I want to see that out of these guys. Push the limits with the dumb refs and don't get bullied by the opposition. We all know how bad refs are. Why not use to it your advantage? I'm not suggesting dirty/cheap play either. Just ruthlessly tough. Play with tough finesse and skill. That's a hard team to stop. This squad could do it. Just have to grow some you know what...like fucking sometime last week okay.

maceo_blastin'

February 6th, 2016 at 8:59 PM ^

call me crazy but i feel like lavall jordan could be a recruiting dynamo waiting in the wings. He's young, his tweets motivate the heck outta me. i imagine he would run something similar to what beilein runs/he's been assisting long enough to gain a strong grasp of the offense, anyway. and maybe, he could up the average star rating of our recruits....

bacon

February 6th, 2016 at 4:17 PM ^

MIchigan NCAA Tournament Elite Eight appearances since 1980: 1989, 1992*, 1993*, 1994, 2013, 2014.

We vacated the ones with stars. I'm not exactly sure we want to give up on the coach who got us to those appearances in 2013/14 so quickly. Let's not also act like we would be there all the time with another coach going forward. I'm not saying JB should get a lifetime pass for 2013/2014 either, just lets have some perspective on what JB did two years ago.

Yeoman

February 6th, 2016 at 8:45 PM ^

...is what we decide we need. We can max out what's possible doing it clean, or we can turn into Louisville. Depends on the fan base, the department, the institution.

Wisconsin doesn't have any national titles but they seem pretty happy with what they 've done the last decade--I spend a lot of time around Madison and I seldom hear fans complaining about their poor recruiting. Or you can look at Illinois, where most of the fans are pissed and want to go back to the Self and Henson and Jimmy Collins stuff.

Which way do we want to go?

blue_shift

February 6th, 2016 at 3:43 PM ^

It's a legitimate question. It doesn't make sense that our fanbase pushes for strong recruiting and competition at every position in football but accepts mediocrity in basketball.

We went out and got an elite football coach and have some big advantages, including our national reputation and our recent switch to Nike. I'm willing to give JB a little more leeway, but I personally don't think he's an elite coach. If the recruiting and on-court results continue to be lacking (20+ point runs, oh my) I think Manuel needs to make the switch.

 

blue_shift

February 6th, 2016 at 4:41 PM ^

JB has been here almost a decade. During that time, we have frequently fielded a scattershot defense and have had to make do with a frustrating lack of bigs out on the court. Recruiting, outside of one or two good years, has been substandard.

Don't get me wrong - JB is a good guy and has done great things for the program. But mediocrity by definition means "middle of the road," and we have been exactly that.

victors2000

February 6th, 2016 at 5:02 PM ^

injuries, where would we be if Caris hadn't got hurt? The back to back losses - and the way they occurred - really hurt but funks are a part of basketball. Michigan State just finished a 3 game stretch of losses; the fact is most of the top 20 works through some kind of slump. I'm not advocating Beilein or bust but I feel it's reasonable to let the season work it's way out. Let Caris come back, let the season unfold, and then if the team doesn't improve then yeah perhaps it would be time to consider a 'hotseat' then.

raleighwood

February 6th, 2016 at 5:37 PM ^

They've lost by  double digits to every ranked team they have played except for Maryland.  Some of those loses in shockingly bad fashion (SMU, Indiana, MSU....).  That's not a good sign.  This team is just not competitive.  That falls at Beilein's feet.

I certainly don't think that it's time to pull the plug on JB (Finals in 2013, Elite 8 in 2014....) but the leash seems to be getting shorter. 

Football Heaven

February 6th, 2016 at 3:17 PM ^

If you run a guard oriented offense (fine), but your guards cannot beat anyone off the dribble (not fine), you have a team design with a fatal flaw.  I wouldn't put him on the hot seat, but I really hope he makes an adjustment in his recruiting.

M-Dog

February 6th, 2016 at 8:27 PM ^

Live by the 3, die by the 3.  That's us.  When we can't hit them, we're done.  And it's hard to always hit them.

But we'll have hot streaks too, and we'll think that everything is "solved" now.  

But there is nothing to solve.  We're just hitting 3's and trading 3 points for the opponents 2 points in the paint.  That's the team that Beilein designed.

We can go on some great runs playing like that, including in the Tournament where teams are not familiar with us.  But you can't always count on it.  It's not reliable.

Muttley

February 6th, 2016 at 8:55 PM ^

hitting open look after open look.

MSU had 7 offensive rebounds, we had 6.

Donnal wasn't effective inside, nor did we shoot well outside.  Tough to win under those conditions.  Nearly impossible when you give up wide open threes all game to good shooting opponents as we have in the past two.

Playing defense like that gets you beat.  Better hope NW and Minny can't hit the open shot.  We could easily lose to either giving up that many open looks.

Stu Daco

February 6th, 2016 at 3:26 PM ^

Not yet, but it's warming up quickly.  No excuse for frequent blown outs in your 9th year, especially when there's no real reason for optimism moving forward.

Cali's Goin' Blue

February 6th, 2016 at 4:22 PM ^

brutal stretch for Belein and the Team but let's also not forgot what Belein has done for this program. I think it would be tough to find a better coach than Belein(Not impossible, but not easy). Not every coaching search works out as perfectly as our football coach search, where one of the best coaches in the world, who is an alum, just got forced out of a toxic environment in the pro's, making him realize that the college game is what he truly loves. I'm not giving Belein a pass for how terrible the team has been these last two games, but let's also not forget what the Amaker years were like here. 

MGlobules

February 6th, 2016 at 4:36 PM ^

I'm not sure who would be, especially the way they've been playing lately. This sounds like the response of someone who isn't following closely. What I believe we need to see is one, maybe several of Beilein's talls earning out, more or less immediately. If that doesn't happen I sincerely begin to question whether Beilein can consistently keep us near the top of the B1G standings. Something like that should be our AD's goal, especially given the money recently spent on facilities and our overall athletic reputation.

We've been decimated by injuries and lost a pile of guys to the NBA, so for me Beilein gets leeway. What concerns me is this team's recent downward spiral. Last year's team was hardly a great one, but showed lots of fight. This one has exhibited little backbone.

Maybe Beilein is lacking a little fire? I'm a big fan, and most analysts are fans; he has a neat approach to the game and I love the way his teams play, when they're talented and in a groove. But against Indiana I needed to see him become animated. "Elite" is not the best term to throw around because it's about winning; when you're not winning you're not elite. A heckuva lot of analysts were talking pretty admiringly about him when we were winning, though.

Beilein pretty much has another year, anyway, and I think we can be decent next year, if we get decent play underneath. After that, if things do not look like they are on a serious upward swing, I think we could just seem him retire.

Don't know if I see a magic elixir for coaching success at Michigan, though, or a magic guy. There is so much corruption out there.

Kwitch22

February 6th, 2016 at 3:18 PM ^

No hot seat, he made the elite 8 and final four 2 and 3 years ago. A bunch of kids left early. This team would look amazing with Mitch and Nik. He is still doing good work, hopefully Caris comes back soon.

corundum

February 6th, 2016 at 3:40 PM ^

I think it really shows that we aren't as much of a basketball school as we think we should be. Hoke won a BCS bowl and was gone after two subsequent mediocre years (and the Morris thing). I don't think he's on the hot seat, but if this was Michigan football, he'd be wearing out his welcome.