On behalf of the "drunk sorority girl"

Submitted by cigol on April 24th, 2013 at 12:03 PM

Resulting from the new student seating  policy (which I am personally a big fan of), the general sentiment of disdain towards the "drunk sorority girl," who seems to personify every student not in his or her seat by 11:59 AM has come more into light.  So for that, I'll take their side.

First off, I'm a student who gets to every game early and is generally "that guy" at 11:20 trying to round the troops away from "just one more game" of flip cup.  Nevertheless, these people should not be shat on for the following reasons:

1) Global reach:  Everyone on here likes to talk about how sweet of a university this is and how we're so academically superior to OSU and Sparty.  While sort of arrogant, everyone is dead on.  UM is way better. We get far more students from all over the country / world, and this has become even moreso in recent years.  For multiple reasons, Michigan has far far more out of state / country people that didn't grow up in Grand Rapids with Ford / Schembechler posters over their beds, relative to the previous eras of Michigan football that so many on here reminisce about.  For the university and our diplomas / egos, this isn't exactly a bad thing.  

Conclusion: More national / international university with flourishing world class grad programs = less kids that care as much as the rest of us.  Just be grateful that most of them still go, we still have 20k students at most games, and don't whine that we only have 109k instead of 112k at kick off.  It could be worse. SEE: Wisconsin day games.

2) Richrod / Late Carr (??) Effect:  Let's face it, 2007-2012 has been a relatively dark era for Michigan football.  My first games were in 2010, and something about having the only entertaining games being shootouts against Illinois and UMass doesnt breed the immense school pride that will pull people away from that last game of flip cup to see them touch the banner.  Couple that with the more geographically diverse student body, and you have less people showing up for noon kickoffs, especially against Directional Michigan and Purdue.

Conclusion: Non-elite teams and unexciting games, coupled with #1 = less kids that care as much as the rest of us.  Again, just be grateful that most of them still go, we still have 20k students at most games, and don't whine that we only have 109k instead of 112k at kick off.

Comments

Alton

April 24th, 2013 at 1:54 PM ^

The only reason to move to general admission is to oversell the section.  If you're not overselling, the general admission is actually counter-productive.

There are 2 solutions to the 'ring of apathy" at the top of the student section:

(1) Move to general admission and oversell the section.

(2) Keep assigned seats and strictly enforce the seat assignments.

Option (1) eliminates empty seats by selling them to non-students.  Option (2) does not eliminate empty seats, but distributes them more evenly across the section so you don't have blocks of 20 empty rows.

Since they are going to GA, they must be shrinking the section.

 

djmagic

April 24th, 2013 at 1:11 PM ^

life is all about choices.  yes, football saturdays are about more than just the game, it's the whole game-day experience.  so, the students now have to make choices about which elements of that experience are more important to them.  Those that prioritize a couple more games of beer pong over close seats have made their decision, and others can choose differently.   And, when did students become so helpless that they can't figure out how to enjoy themselves AND get good seats?

get in line with friends, bring a flask, a snack, and anything else that adds to your gameday experience, and wait for the gates to open, then get your seat as close as you want/can.
it's not hard.  

those arguing about sacrificing an hour of study time to get better seats - again, that's your choice.  if you care that much about sitting 20-30 rows closer, that's your choice.  if you're more invested in your studies, that's also your choice. 
it's almost like this is the first time some of these kids have been told they can't have everything they want, their way, all the time.   sad, really.

dahblue

April 24th, 2013 at 2:48 PM ^

For those whose girlfriends don't live in the Niagra Falls area, there really are other things to do besides get to games early.  We could have a policy that forbids fat slobs in batman masks from getting television time (because they're embarrasing to the University), but fat slobs can enjoy the game as they see fit...just as much as someone who likes hanging with buddies and getting to the EMU game when he/she is ready.

Side note, folks here seem confused on "good seats".  Maybe that's the superfandom, but the low rows aren't "good" to everyone.  The better seats are the section further from the end zones.  Row 50?  Perfect.  Row 1?  Sucks.  Disagree?  That's fine...because fans have a right to differ.  Look, I graduated long ago, when we threw marshmellows and had a great time.  I loved that our seats moved around the bend each year.  No freshman should be sitting anywhere but the end zone...as low as they want even.

lexus larry

April 24th, 2013 at 3:57 PM ^

Don't agree with you often, DB, but in this case (Class of '87 here), fully agree with the "what constitutes good today" argument.  Like you summarized, Fr was end zone, and the holy land was Senior or Grad seats in Section 26 (or so).  Rows 25-50.

Maybe the YouTube see-me-on-the-internets generation insists Row A is the place to be...who knows?

To other comments above, the early arrivers will pack in the lower section/lower rows, and peter out around the corner, but arrive an hour before the game?  You'll have your choice of Row 25 in any section, for however many friends you'll want to bring with you.

But I don't think for a moment that ALL the students are mashed into rows A through 60, leaving 30 rows empty above.  Those 3500-5500 no shows make a visual impact, regardless.

And if the no-show splits go among each of the undergrad classes, Freshmen had no excuse to not show or be on time, as they had no "bummer seasons" to endure.  Sophs had just enjoyed a banner 2011 season, so what was the excuse?  Lousy sked?  Juniors got to see some wins with RR, and enjoy a rebirth of M Football in 2011...why miss games or significant portions of them?  Lame excuses abound.  And thus, they reap what they sow. 

MichiganMan2424

April 24th, 2013 at 12:53 PM ^

My Take on the situation;

Keep in mind that it's not just the "drunk sorority" student who doesn't like this change. A vast majority of students who have been answering polls on Facebook have said they hate it, Brian acknowleged as much in his front page post.

So while everyone here likes to bash the kids who are drinking, the so called "drunk sorority girl", for hating this policy, every student does basically.

Whether kids are pregaming or just sitting in their dorm room, most students would rather have a guaranteed seat at a certain spot that they can get whether they leave at 11:15 or 11:45. Now they have no idea where they'll sit before hand, and most people would rather do whatever they want than have to stand in line for 30-45 minutes before they normally would and still not be guaranteed a good seat.

That being said, as a current student and someone in Greek Life, I'm in favor of the change. I'm willing to leave 30 minutes ealier to get a better seat, I'll just start pregamming 30 minutes earlier. I think if you're willing to wait in line for an extra 30 minutes, you should get a better seat. I'm also fine with reducing the size of the student section. But just keep in mind, this isn't just Greek life who doesn't like this change, most students don't.

 

MichiganMan2424

April 24th, 2013 at 2:20 PM ^

No shit it's depending on what group you poll. That's why I said students. The group I am talking about being polled in students. My point was specifically about students. The polls on Facebook I've seen are all student responses. The poll you posted is open to the public, majority non students, so of course the results are different.

MGoBender

April 24th, 2013 at 5:04 PM ^

Now they have no idea where they'll sit before hand, and most people would rather do whatever they want than have to stand in line for 30-45 minutes before they normally would and still not be guaranteed a good seat.

Can we stop saying people will have to stand in line?  It is totally not true.  You will have to stand in the stadium, but not in a line unless you get to the stadium more than 90 minutes before kickoff to try to get front couple rows.

It's General Admission.  When they open doors 90 mins before kick, everyone gets in.  Once that 10 minute rush is over, there won't be a line that is any different than the congestion line that has always existed right before kickoff.

Wolverine Devotee

April 24th, 2013 at 12:58 PM ^

You (student section) lost my support for your cause when I remembered the MANY games that damn section was empty in patches.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for those who don't show up when they have tickets at a discounted price. As someone who is about to go on the waiting list for Section 23 (now a $600 annual donation, x2 which is $1200), I have a right to be annoyed. I'm just thankful I have the funds to be on the damn list.

Love the noise you guys bring, but there is none when the seats are empty. Damn.

mgoblueben

April 24th, 2013 at 2:11 PM ^

Oh quit your alumni whining.  I paid 200k to go to michigan for undergrad.  So yes, people who didnt go to michigan or are now rich alumni can pay large sums because the demand is there.  So let the kids enjoy the "student section" while they are in fact still paying tuition.  I could care less if its full at kickoff.  Were talking about college sports for college kids.  And all I remember about the "alumni section" is a bunch of old farts who never stood up or who bitched about people standing up.  Could never get the wave going either. And fergodsake, if student section is the source of our home field advantage then alumni need to quit complaining about  how appropriate their chants are (i.e you suck).  Get over it.  Now as an alumnus I truly despise the shit students get.  Ok now go back to your usual whine fest and negging anyone with courage to tell you off.  College used to be about students, I wish DB hadnt made it a battle of money.  

Butterfield

April 24th, 2013 at 2:22 PM ^

Money?  DB likes money, but this is NOT one of those moves.  This is about avoiding the embarassment of an empty student section.  Every alum who is supportive of measures to restore the pride is taking that stand because they had no problem filling the student section before kickoff when they were in school and would like to see the traditional support continue.  A half-full student section doesn't maximize the home-field advantage or do anything to make Michigan look good.   

elpigeon

April 24th, 2013 at 3:04 PM ^

Avoiding embarrassment? Doesn't do anything to make Michigan look good? This is the wrong blog to post this in, but its just a student section at a football game. You're not going to have to deal with coworkers coming up to you on Monday saying "Hey Mr. Butterfield, you see the game on Saturday? Student section wasn't even full at kickoff! You should be ashamed of  that degree you have hanging on your wall." I hope that doesn't actually happen, but if it does you'll still be able to say gtfo of my office. In all seriousness though, I really don't understand the embarrassment reason, please explain.

Butterfield

April 24th, 2013 at 4:09 PM ^

Michigan football is an institution, one of the top programs in the country - or at least that's what we tell ourselves.  The fan base feels slighted when U-M isn't compared favorably with Notre Dame, Alabama, Texas, etc.   If we're having a problem convincing our own students that the games are worth going to (and on time), we're not one of the top programs we claim to be. 

The no shows are widely reported by media - print and television - during the season.  It wasn't a secret before the GA policy was created.  The students' apathy is damaging the reputation of the program and by extension, the reputation of the school. 

 

goblue20111

April 24th, 2013 at 3:40 PM ^

Sorry bro. I'll take the gun off your head. We're you bitching about discounted tickets when you were a student here? Thankfully I never had to endure this but my sister is going to be a freshman in the fall and she is pissed. Tailgating is a great college experience. You're talking about punishing the entire student body to correct the behavior of a few thousand. I usually showed up 15 minutes before kickoff and was fine. But ya no, let's take more seats away from the students so we can keep holding onto the distinguished title of the quietest 100K+.

Owl

April 24th, 2013 at 12:56 PM ^

I have a question for the "shrink the student section!" contingent on this blog. How do you differentiate between a ticket order from a student that will show up and one from a student that won't? If the purpose of shrinking the student section is to reduce no-shows, how do you ensure that the seats you eliminate are the seats of people that wouldn't have shown up? 

Owl

April 24th, 2013 at 1:07 PM ^

This is an interesting idea that I hadn't thought of. I really appreciate the response. I have some concerns with this approach, though.

What happens when the estimate is too small? Does this mean that the size of the section would have to be the same for OSU and directional MI (leading to there still being a bunch of empty seats for poor quality games)?

I wonder if there are any legal issues with over selling like this.  

Butterfield

April 24th, 2013 at 1:21 PM ^

I don't have all of those answers but I know from reading the threads from the past few days that several large football schools do oversell seats (someone mentioned Georgia as one).  My guess (although only a guess) is that the tickets are issued with a disclaimer - entry is on a first come, first served basis and anyone who arrives after the stadium is at capacity will be turned away. 

I think a good policy would probably also vary the size of the GA student seating sections based upon opponent. 

Butterfield

April 24th, 2013 at 1:44 PM ^

But see, I don't think someone as passionate about Michigan football and who shows up before kickoff like you do would ever have to worry about being in the group of people turned away.  The great thing about this potential solution would be it may inspire the chronic latecomers to actually start coming earlier and, in that case, the student section could be increased back to it's previous size as the behavioral changes take effect. 

CRISPed in the DIAG

April 24th, 2013 at 12:59 PM ^

I recall plenty of drunk sorority girls from '87-'90. In fact, very pleasant memories. Ahem. Anyway... I wonder if some of the empty seats issue can be traced to the current requirement that nonstudents must validate student tix. Seemed like it was easier to unload the games you couldn't or wouldn't go to when the potential buyer wasn't faced with a hefty surcharge. As a result, more folks were able to buy and use student section tix.

Picktown GoBlue

April 24th, 2013 at 1:00 PM ^

Rutgers policy on no-shows.

  • Students are limited in the number of times per season and the total number of times while enrolled as students that they can be a no-show for games.
  • Students who accumulate two (2) no-shows in one football season will be ineligible to claim tickets for the remainder of the season.
  • Students who accumulate five (5) total no-shows in football while enrolled as a student will be ineligible to claim tickets for the remainder of their time as students.

Doesn't quite address re-selling seats of late people and maybe relegating them to SRO (found this one while trying to search the web for anyone implementing such a system), but still...you're getting to buy season tix at a discount vs. those a few sections away, just GA now.

His Dudeness

April 24th, 2013 at 1:04 PM ^

Hasn't our parents generation fleeced the younger generations enough?

You already have all of our future dollars maxed out on your current credit cards. You have tossed our educations away. Now you want to take our lower priced seats?

Hey thanks guys. Instead of pillaging to obtain your weath you found a new and easier way; steal from your future generations. Well, done sirs.

Oh and thanks again! Thanks so very much.

 

JimBobTressel

April 24th, 2013 at 1:18 PM ^

I'm disappointed, I was hoping a drunk sorority girl would show up to "defend her besties and main betches LOL XOXOXOXO like totes!"

The levels of ether dropped on her would be radioactive

ChiCityWolverine

April 24th, 2013 at 1:24 PM ^

The pro-GA crowd has plenty of good points, but I'm getting really tired of this all out assault on students in general. Most of the students are pretty good fans and if you took the student section out completely, going to noon Michigan games against cupcake opponents would have the energy of a golf tournament.

/ducks for cover from outraged alums prepping the flamebaits

eamus_caeruli (not verified)

April 24th, 2013 at 1:33 PM ^

Oh my goodness, you damn college kids bug me big time. First, you can't play devils advocate after you state that you act complicity in the opposite way. Your argument is nullified. Secondly, this issue is no longer a "fair" question. If the AD studies the issue, and evidence points to on average or in one game upwards or equal to 5400 students were not showing up by kickoff or at all, this now becomes a "equitable" situation. Simply, the student sections becomes a single "entity" and an equitable policy is applied.

We don't care about your plight, since you created the issue. The AD has feed the monster for too long. That's a fair criticism, but only to a degree. Are you a fan and supporter of te UofM FB team or not? Do you want them to succeed or not? Do you believe in the "big house traditions or not?

Last year they made a corrective action, the students didn't oblige with the HAIL - which was granted a shoddy attempt. This year they are changing policies and procedures and re-establishing an expectation for the SS. That is life. Deal.

All this doesn't matter...I can tell you peeps who don't show or come late, you pissed off the wrong people. If powerful alumni are pressing the AD to make this change, they will do it since their money directly effects the whole AD and UofM.

ChiCityWolverine

April 24th, 2013 at 2:08 PM ^

I see two reasons last year was particularly disappointing in terms of student turnout.

1. The current upperclassmen started school at a Michigan entrenched in the post Appy. State loss Rich Rod era. Michigan home games of 2007-2010 were a different animal than previous iterations with only a 16-14 home record and losses to usual punching bags like App St, Akron, and Purdue as well as ass-whoopings at the hands of Oregon, Illinois!, Penn State, Ohio, Michigan State, and Wisconsin. Elder fans have to remember that many of the current students did not necessarily grow up diehard fans. I believe these years developed a smaller (NOT WORSE) group of Michigan fans from the student population.

2. This was the worst home slate I can recall. UMass, although technically a MAC school now, is the type of matchup that inevitably will lead to no shows. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. Illinois was on fall long weekend, which a ton of students go home for, and it is difficult to sell tickets for this game, leading to a ton of students who end up just eating their tickets. Then there were 3 games against average competition that I would expect an average type turnout for (Air Force, Northwestern, Iowa) and obviously the only big game against State.

I expect attendence to return to form in the Hoke era, not necessarily because of this GA business, but because every class that comes in will be starting school with a football program closer to renewing the classic dominance of Michigan football.

Final note: Don't mention HAIL, there were no incentives and it was impossible to get service to check in, so why would students bother?

ChiCityWolverine

April 24th, 2013 at 2:36 PM ^

HAIL had nothing to do with time. It only required that you check in. Considering I couldn't get service in the Big House, what was I supposed to do? The solution is tracking when a ticket was scanned, and rewarding timely attendence the following year, not expecting students to spend all game trying to get a signal on their iPhones with the possibility of a free shirt or pizza if they go to enough events.

M-Wolverine

April 24th, 2013 at 3:04 PM ^

Was showing and telling students the University would like, and values, them showing up and coming on time. Reasonable people would take that as a signal that "maybe I should show up, and on time."  Because they might be nice about it now (as failed as the attempt at being nice might have been), but next time they might not be so nice. 

The solution isn't finding the right bribe to get students to show up; the solution is for students to take the hint and just do what's right and show up.  And if they choose not to, not to bitch about it afterwards when there are consequences.

Bronson

April 24th, 2013 at 2:58 PM ^

Just curious, what year did you graduate?  And, by extension, how much were you paying for tuition during your time at U of M?  I'm just guessing, based upon the general "get off my lawn" tone of your post, that it wasn't the recent past.  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I apologize.  But I suppose my point is you and any like-minded posters should keep in mind that if you graduated more than 15-20 years ago, current students are probably paying somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-5X what you paid in tuition. Thus negating, at least to some degree, the whole alumni donation argument.  If you paid $40,000 to attend U of M thirty years ago and are loudly chastising someone who will incur $100K+ in student loan debt during their time spent at U of M, I would just tread a bit more carefully.  Now, if you're all baller-like and are throwing fat stacks at Mary Sue on the regular, that's one thing.  But I see guys bitching on here about how the $1,200 they shell out per year entitles them to act entitled, when $1,200 might cover book fees for a couple of U of M classes these days.  I really don't have a dog in this fight, and I'm not trying to call you or anyone else out.  In many ways the anger directed here at studnets is justified.  I guess I'm just taking issue with that specific element of your screed.  I'm sure I'll be yelled back under the table now.

macgoblue10

April 24th, 2013 at 1:33 PM ^

I'm sick of reading comments with the terms "crappy seats"

 

Corner of the endzone Row 50 is not a bad seat. Corner of the endzone Row 70 is not a bad seat. There are NO BAD SEATS at Michigan Stadium.

 

I've been going to games since birth, have sat in all kinds of different sections and rows and I am dead serious... NO BAD SEATS!! I've been to every B1G stadium and many non-conference games. You want a bad seat, go sit in the upper deck at Penn State... players look like ants.... Go to the Shitshoe and watch a game with a pole right in your view the entire time.

 

Just more students being ungreatful.

willow

April 24th, 2013 at 1:35 PM ^

happened a couple of years ago.  I was trying to help a friend in a wheelchair get into the stadium.  We avoided the south end because it was so congested.  In approaching the areas around those north gates, there was an even much more crowded and congested scene.

It took us a half an hour to be expedited into the stadium and we barely made the kickoff, forget the pregame.

My point is that there were thousands of students backed up and many more coming in from Main, State and Maynard (??).  It was pandemonium.   I'm sure that it took another half hour or even more for most of them to get inside the stadium.  

The problem (as we old farts are perceiving) might be caused by some very real conditions:  

  1. The prime seats from the students' pointo of view are the lower rows.  It looks terrific on the monitors!  But there are at least twice as many students in that congested, preferred area.  This may account for some of the empty rows in the nose-bleed rows.  I don't think that changing to GA is going to address this and might even make it worse.
  2. Many students don't arrive until 15 minutes before kickoff and maybe they won't because they hate to leave the tailgates earlier.
  3. There really aren't enough gates to handle the last minute arrivals.  You really wouldn't believe the crowd.  Something could be done about this in my opinion.

 

BlueNote

April 24th, 2013 at 1:44 PM ^

They are often late, but they are loud.

Non-students are often on time, but they are mute.

Both classes of fans have their benefits and drawbacks.

We need the students to spend the first quarter doing shots of shitty vodka at a house party so that they can show up at halftime and yell really loud in the fourth quarter.  We NEED these late, drunk fans just as badly, if not more, than we need the grey-haired punctual grumblers.

Also, if we are going to penalize students for being late, why not penalize the old grumpy people for leaving too early?  How many times have you seen people leaving when Michigan was down a few points at the end of the game but still had an outside chance of coming back?  More often than not, it's not the students leaving, but the pessimistic curmudgeons worrying about getting stuck in a crowded parking area.  So here's my proposal: let's charge people $10 at the exit gate if they want to leave before the clock says 0:00.  All proceeds go to Brandon's Domino's private jet fund.

willow

April 24th, 2013 at 1:38 PM ^

happened a couple of years ago.  I was trying to help a friend in a wheelchair get into the stadium.  We avoided the south end because it was so congested.  In approaching the areas around those north gates, there was an even much more crowded and congested scene.

It took us a half an hour to be expedited into the stadium and we barely made the kickoff, forget the pregame.

My point is that there were thousands of students backed up and many more coming in from Main, State and Maynard (??).  It was pandemonium.   I'm sure that it took another half hour or even more for most of them to get inside the stadium.  

The problem (as we old farts are perceiving) might be caused by some very real conditions:  

  1. The prime seats from the students' pointo of view are the lower rows.  It looks terrific on the monitors!  But there are at least twice as many students in that congested, preferred area.  This may account for some of the empty rows in the nose-bleed rows.  I don't think that changing to GA is going to address this and might even make it worse.
  2. Many students don't arrive until 15 minutes before kickoff and maybe they won't because they hate to leave the tailgates earlier.
  3. There really aren't enough gates to handle the last minute arrivals.  You really wouldn't believe the crowd.  Something could be done about this in my opinion.

 

Needs

April 24th, 2013 at 2:08 PM ^

If they do GA like Wisconsin, which has general admission but ticketed seats that are distributed as students arrive at the stadium, it's only going to slow those section lines down further, as the ushers count out the specific number of tickets each group wants.

It will be interesting to see how they do this logistically. I have a hard time believing that public safety officials are going to sign off on a system that has no seating assignments for 25,000 people, which would seem to invite a crush at the lower portion of the stands as people try to push there way in there.

aratman

April 24th, 2013 at 1:53 PM ^

Just ask yourself, when you are standing in line for the front row seat , "WWLBD".   What Would Lloyd Brady Do?   Be the first in line?  I bet he would.

WolverineHistorian

April 24th, 2013 at 2:01 PM ^

In regards to the non-Notre Dame non-OSU opponent not being worth getting to the game on time, let's take a look at how different that attitude used to be. 

Here is the pregame show from the 1983 Northwestern game.  In those days, the Wildcats were ten times worse than what Indiana is today.  Coming into this game, Northwestern had lost 74 of their previous 81 games.  But look at the crowd.  Full student section.  In fact there's a closeup of the packed student section singing the Victors at 2:31.    The only empty seats are in the visitors end zone....

 

Back in the "old" days, an opponent like Northwestern, which was the laughing stock of college football, didn't matter when it came to getting to the game.  How nice that was.