February 10th, 2011 at 1:05 PM ^
giving us some statistics would help us answer your question
February 10th, 2011 at 1:05 PM ^
Burke appears to be a better scorer, but we'll see if he can play any defense. It's probably close, but I'll go with Brundidge until seeing Burke defend people at the college level.
February 10th, 2011 at 11:44 PM ^
Trust me Trey has amazing defense i seen him lock down Texas' Corey Joseph last year when Northland played Findley Prep. His defense is maybe even the best part about his game . He even said he prides his self on defense.
February 10th, 2011 at 1:13 PM ^
The real question for me is will either of these guys see the court next year and if they do then should they? We have a minutes crunch already and everyone is coming back, both these kids seem to provide the penetration we need but they will be 3 years behind most of the group. I think a redshirt could be beneficial. It's going to be an interesting dilemma next year for JB for PT all over the roster and while it is a good problem to have I hope we don't lose anyone, because you know the second someone transfers someone will get hurt and you'll be screwed.
February 10th, 2011 at 1:18 PM ^
I'd say that Burke is almost a sure redshirt, and there isn't much reason to play Brundidge unless someone is injured.
We'll see though....maybe one comes in and is good enough where you can't keep him off the court.
February 10th, 2011 at 1:32 PM ^
I love when I hear people start talking about redshirting basketball players. Basketball players are VERY rarely redshirted. Last year was a rare exception because Jordan Morgan was injured and Blake McLimans was a bean pole.
I guarantee that not only will Burke and Brundidge not redshirt next year but they will also be SOLIDLY in the rotation. There is currently no backup point guard for Darius Morris and Burke will provide a very nice change of pace and allow Morris to get a breather here and there.
On top of that Morris is the only player currently on the team who can take the ball to the basket and create offense for others. Hardaway is getting there but his ball handling isn't quite there yet. Brundidge and Burke will immediately be the next 2 best playmakers and ball handlers on the team after Darius Morris. They will both get time at the 1 and 2. Burke is a great shooter and ball handler and Brundidge is a pit bull and knows how to get to the rack.
They will provide a much needed element that is missing from this team. I will give anyone 50-1 odds for anyone who wants to take me out on it that NEITHER player redshirts next year, barring some sort of injury.
February 10th, 2011 at 1:43 PM ^
I agree that basketball players aren't often redshirted, but there aren't often basketball teams composed entirely of freshmen and sophomores either.
Being a little guy, I think Burke will have to gain a decent amount of muscle before being able to play solid B10 defense. He could still play a few minutes every game, but I don't think they will want him guarding the point in pressure situations.
February 10th, 2011 at 1:45 PM ^
There is no doubt that he needs to get stronger. But so do Hardaway and Horford and Smotrycz. It's just the way freshmen are. Gotta get through the freshman season on talent and provide solid minutes here and there and then after an offseason of strength and conditioning you are ready to make the jump your sophomore year a la Darius Morris.
Burke will get about 15 mins a game next year I predict and Brundidge probably about the same and in their sophomore seasons will be when they contend for starter type minutes. These guys have ridiculous talent levels and both provide something that this team doesn't currently have.
February 10th, 2011 at 2:15 PM ^
30 minutes of pt between these 2 guys. So your senior Douglass is going to the end of the bench? You have a decent point, but minutes have to add up to 40. Rarely does a team have no players leaving.
February 10th, 2011 at 2:52 PM ^
LOL this argument makes no sense.. Your math is way off here. There are 200 minutes of playing time available (40 min games, 5 players on the court at a time). I assure you, 30 minutes out of those 200 will not send Stu Douglass to the end of the bench never to play again. But I will say, I do believe Stu will play fewer minutes next season, as will Darius Morris.
February 10th, 2011 at 10:36 PM ^
Stu is a nice player, but he is a role player. I don't see many minutes in Vogrich's future either.
February 11th, 2011 at 2:28 PM ^
Do not underestimate the value of Senior leadership! We all thought CJ Lee and David Merritt were 'just role players,' but they probed to be much more.
February 10th, 2011 at 2:18 PM ^
I'll take your 50-1 for $20.
February 10th, 2011 at 2:30 PM ^
You will lose. Neither one of those kids is redshirting barring injury. Novak days as a guard will be officially over.
February 10th, 2011 at 2:54 PM ^
Give me a minutes breakdown if you are so sure. Novak is not leaving the floor next year. He is your senior leader. I'm not saying you are wrong I just find it hard to imagine Stu not playing significant minutes next year and Morris and Hardaway will play 30 minutes. That doesn't leave a lot of open minutes.
February 10th, 2011 at 3:22 PM ^
Ok so we've got 200 minutes a game...my random projections for next year
1) Morris 33 minutes
2) Hardaway 30 minutes
3) Morgan 28 minutes
4) Novak 26 minutes
5) Smotrycz-23 minutes
6) Douglas-19 minutes
7) Horford-15 minutes
8) Burke-7 minutes
9) Brundige-7 minutes
10) McLimans-5 minutes
Rest of the guys on the roster-negligible minutes
EDIT: I didn't include Vogrich, so I reduced the last 3 guys and give Vogrich 7 minutes a game.
February 10th, 2011 at 5:26 PM ^
No way Novak plays less than 30 a night next year.
February 10th, 2011 at 5:46 PM ^
It all looks good, but how many teams have an 11 man rotation? I'm sure a few do, but I can't see that from Beilien. Vogrich is your best shooter and you need shooters around Morris not more penetrators. I can see 1 or the other getting 7 minutes a game as the back up to Morris, but that's about it.
February 10th, 2011 at 10:40 PM ^
in warm-up with no one in his face. Game speed is a totally different story. He is a nice kid with a good shot but there is a reason he was hardly recruited.
February 10th, 2011 at 11:58 PM ^
I think you're being a bit too harsh on him. He's shooting 38% this year from 3 which is tied with Stu for 2nd on the team behind Novak. He was also a 4* on Scout, 3* on Rivals and IIRC he was Mr. Basketball in Illinois his senior year.
Now he'll probably never start but he's shown enough improvement in the rest of his game this year that he'll always have a role on this team.
February 11th, 2011 at 5:58 AM ^
I randomly found myself on Vogrich's Rivals profile the other day wondering how heavily recruited he was and I wouldn't say he was "hardly" recruited. It lists offers from some decent high major basketball schools including Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Stanford, Baylor, etc, as well as some smaller schools that seem to always pop up in the tournament like Valpo, Drake, or Bucknell.
So while not the a ton of TOP schools, he had a fairly solid offer sheet.
February 10th, 2011 at 6:59 PM ^
No Vogrich at all?
February 10th, 2011 at 3:35 PM ^
To me the question isn't even worth debating. There are 80 guard minutes in a college bball game. We only have 2 true guards on the team and only one who is confident handling the ball in pressure situations. Not only are the 2 frosh going to play, they will play meaningful minutes almost from the get go. I think both are more college ready than Darius Morris was last season and Darius acquitted himself just fine for a freshman.
Last night for example, when Stu did not want the ball, and had the horrendous unforced giveaway at the end of the game. That won't be an issue with Burke and Brundidge they are kids that are used to handling the ball in those situations and thrive on it.
Michigan has a nice team coming back next year but it ain't all that. Michigan loses 6 in a row, and it is time to fire Belien. Michigan wins 3 out of 4 and our rotation has no room for 2 of the better incoming guards in the nation.
February 10th, 2011 at 8:21 PM ^
I would bet a dollar that Novak's efficiency would sore even higher with a few less minutes played. Tell Zach to go hard for 28 minutes a game versus 35 and you might see another drastic jump in his efficiency.
February 10th, 2011 at 1:33 PM ^
1) We will haz depth n hoops?
2) In my mind, the OP's question doesn't matter... we have both :)
February 10th, 2011 at 1:35 PM ^
I would be shocked if Burke redshirted next year. He finally gives us a second point guard on the roster. He'll be used to give Darius some rest and keep Stu from having to play the point. I'd say Brundidge is the more likely redshirt, although I doubt either will redshirt.
February 10th, 2011 at 2:24 PM ^
Agree. And in addition, JB obviously is not a proponent of red-shirting:
1) J. Morgan was redshirted due to an injury last year
2) McLimans was redshirted due to the risk of him getting snapped like the twig he was last year
3) Vogrich was not red-shirted last year (even with Douglass, Manny, and Morris on the roster)
4) Christian is not red-shirting this year even though he is the 6 player with Fr. eligibility
5) Horford is not red-shirting this year- even though he could use a year to muscle-up.
February 10th, 2011 at 3:46 PM ^
Is a depth player. Belein doesnt want him taking up 5 scholarship years
February 10th, 2011 at 1:48 PM ^
disagree. morris looks exhausted at the end of every game and is almost always on the floor. brundige will be needed to keep him fresh even if he doesn't play many minutes.
February 10th, 2011 at 1:22 PM ^
I don't really see us having a minutes crunch right now. Morris plays nearly 40 minutes a game every game and needs some support. Also, if Brundige is ready to play and is a better contributor at the 2 than Stu is, I think he can definitely earn some minutes as a freshman. I don't see any reason why both guys can't play up to 10 minutes a game next year if they are ready to play.
February 10th, 2011 at 1:28 PM ^
It is refreshing that we're talking about not having to play our highly ranked incoming freshmen next season, isn't it?
I think Burke might have slightly more chance to play given that he's a true PG. Morris is playing tons of minutes, has those moments where he looks like he forces it, and his only relief is a couple of minutes of Stu. Having Burke play a few minutes per game at the PG spot could be really valuable. Then maybe Stu takes some of Vogrich's minutes as the "spot up shooter off the bench."
CB is really exciting, but with Morris and Hardaway both playing the "drive to the basket" role and CB's height being potentially more of a concern as a 2-guard instead of 1-guard, I think he'll have a harder time finding minutes.
Who knows....still a nice problem to debate.
February 10th, 2011 at 7:03 PM ^
I think CB will have plenty of "drive to the basket" time when either Morris or Hardaway are on the bench.
February 10th, 2011 at 1:39 PM ^
One way or the other but I saw the two of them together at Pizza House with Beilein and Burke is smaller and thinner than Brundidge by a noticeable margin. Brundidge is already built like a college player and will play for sure. I think Burke plays as well as the thing that both of them are good at (slashing and getting to the rim) are the perfect compliment to our bevy of shooters. They may not play a lot, but these guys are talented and will be hard to keep off the floor.
February 10th, 2011 at 11:49 PM ^
similar to Sherron Collins IMO. Both are short but thickly built who can get to the hoops with pure strength. He'll be a perfect 2 guard alongside Morris. I don't want to see CB pair up with a small PG where CB has to guard bigger players. He may have to play alongside Burke but there will be an immediate size mis-match at G for Michigan
February 10th, 2011 at 1:57 PM ^
I won't pretend to know who will be better at the next level - or who will contribute most next year - but I'm ecstatic at the prospect of seeing this backcourt duo develop and play together, especially in the post-Morris years when they're upperclassmen. In the near term, TB should capably man the point in relief of Morris and will hopefully reduce Stu's minutes at PG. TB is also a fantastic shooter.... will be great to have a PG as a legit 3 pt threat. If he can contribute quality minutes (i.e., limit the turnovers!) at PG next year, he should see the court. CB seems to have the physical body (Rumeal Robinson-esque) that can get to the hoop. How many times have we seen our current roster flounder with under 10 seconds on the shot clock and nobody to create a decent shot (especially if Morris is on the bench)? I think both of these guys will upgrade our "OMG-the-shot-clock-is-under-10-seconds-we-need-to-take-a-shot" offensive sets (which, by the way, drive me completey insane!). Hardaway has shown a recent ability to take it to the hoop, so we'll have at least a few legit slashing options next year.
Agree with aaamichfan, though...they need to be defensively sound if they're going to log significant minutes.
I'm very excited about these players. Haven't been this excited about a pair of incoming guards in the same class since Kevin Gaines and Jamal Crawford [insert Brian Ellerbe-era guffaw here]!
February 10th, 2011 at 2:46 PM ^
I wake up and thank god that Ellerbe is not coaching here anymore. I still have the nightmares, even though it's a little better now.
PS: Avery Queen was underrated.
February 10th, 2011 at 2:01 PM ^
Brundidge has a better build and can into the paint whenever he likes, while Burke is a better shooter.
DRAW
Either way Michigan Basketball wins
February 10th, 2011 at 3:04 PM ^
but I know a lot about Burke. The kid is a great playmaker, on the premier HS Bball team in Ohio (not just central, but all of ohio). Last year they had 4 kids (including the #1 overall Jared Sullinger) get full ride D1 Schollarships, and Burke was considered thier second or third best player last year. This year Northland is once again sending at least three kids to D1, and Burke is the best of the bunch. The competition that he plays is top notch, so the numbers that he is posting this season is pretty amazing.
February 10th, 2011 at 3:46 PM ^
I see both new guys playing quite a bit. Vogrich looks overmatched on the floor and I see his time being reduced more than it already is. He is a mismatch on defense and if he isn't hitting his shot he doesn't add much offensively. I do hope we snatch a big man or two in recruiting because we will have mad depth in the backcourt.
February 10th, 2011 at 5:29 PM ^
Vogrich plays the 3, and neither of these guys are wings. He might see his minutes depreciate a little, but that will probably be because of the continued progress of THJR rather than the new guards.
February 10th, 2011 at 4:26 PM ^
Brundidge is a short-ish powerful two guard that thrives going to the hoop. Video:
http://www.umhoops.com/2010/04/25/video-carlton-brundidge-goes-for-44-at-king-james/
Burke is more of a true point guard that has great three poiint range. Video:
http://www.umhoops.com/2011/02/06/scouting-video-trey-burke-vs-st-edward/
February 10th, 2011 at 4:38 PM ^
Both guys are coming to A2, so they can sort it out in practice.
February 10th, 2011 at 5:35 PM ^
Brundidge seems to be more physical and therefore maybe a little more ready to contribute right away in college ball. But tbh, I'm just glad we have both!
February 10th, 2011 at 5:53 PM ^
Could that be brundidge or would have to be somebody already on the team?
February 10th, 2011 at 7:00 PM ^
I don't think you recruit players like Brunridge and Burke and not play them.
I can see Brunridge starting, average 20-25 mins and Burke come off the bench for 10-15.
February 11th, 2011 at 12:53 AM ^
There is about a .001% chacne that Brundige starts next year. Either the line-up will be what is was for most of the season(and hopefully it is because that would mean Smot improved a lot) or what it was for the last couple games(Morris-Stu-Hardaway-Novak-Morgan). Think how good Morris has been this year and consider that he didn't even get significant playing time till about halfway through the season last year on a team with a gaping hole at PG(though Stu filled in admirably).
February 11th, 2011 at 6:24 PM ^
Stu has 1 start on the season, got that when Coach B dedided to discipline Morris. Novak, Hardaway, Smot and Morgan have started every game this season according to rivals.
Brundidge and Burke come in more ready to play than Morris did, think of Hardaway. Hopefully Smot makes a leap like Morris did.
February 10th, 2011 at 8:45 PM ^
that together they're half as good as Allen Iverson. Anyway ftr, I think Burke is a slightly better prospect, but hey if either can give some athleticism from the perimeter, the team will be in good shape next year.
February 10th, 2011 at 9:26 PM ^
I think Burke will add more to the team as a true freshman, but I could definitely see them both starting by the time they're through. Burke will get more minutes backing up Morris than Brundidge will backing up Novak and Douglass, IMO, unless they earn more time which would be great.
February 10th, 2011 at 9:44 PM ^
I love the fact that Beilein landed two guys rated so highly with so much talent, but it shouts of desperation for talent when he actively recruited both in spite of the fact that they're (generously) 6'1", when bigs are a serious need. He should have bought the house next to Amir Williams instead.
I'm glad Glenn Robinson III isn't 6'2", but I also hope there's a plan for more size in the near future. I still wonder if there's ever a day we'll see Morgan and Horford on the court at the same time - perhaps in 2 years with Hardaway at the 3 and Brundidge and Burke at 1 and 2. Sadly, we won't and it will always be one of them with Smotrycz there. Ehhhh....maybe he'll learn to play defense and develop consistency, get a hair cut, and grow out of just-finished-high-school awkwardness. Plenty of potential as evidenced in a handful of games, just need that to be the norm instead of a blip.