BlockM

December 21st, 2010 at 7:27 PM ^

I just have a hard time getting all worked up about a high school getting a donation like this. Is there an ulterior motive? Maybe (or probably if you're a little bit paranoid), but no one loses in this situation.

Someone explain to me how this is a bad thing in any way besides the fact that the high school coaches might look more favorably on Alabama because of it.

BlockM

December 21st, 2010 at 7:34 PM ^

How is that a bad thing? A coach is more likely to try to send a kid to his alma mater. A coach is more likely to try to send a kid to a team that's winning national championships. A coach is more likely to try to send a kid to a team where the coach is married to his sister.

People have preferences. The whole point of recruiting is to convince a kid to come to your school. What do you think every other coaching staff in the country does when they go visit a kid's high school? They talk to the coaches and try to get them to like them. That's where "pipelines" originate. You only see people bitching and moaning when that pipeline is directing kids away from us and to someone else.

jg2112

December 21st, 2010 at 9:00 PM ^

Stop being logical and reasonable. If a school other than Michigan is doing things that improves its standing with high schools, with recruits, with coaches, that is simply unacceptable.

I'm with you - who gives a shit why Alabama is doing this? I think it's noble that they're upgrading the facilties, it's a nice gesture.

briangoblue

December 21st, 2010 at 9:52 PM ^

that Bama picked a football factory that they've been recruiting hard all season to not only hold practice at, but also buy the favor of the coaching staff? Maybe I'm being too cynical here, but something about choosing the one high school in Orlando where you're recruiting multiple players (during a dead period, no less) to give the photo op and giant check to is pretty transparent. Just my opinion, and if Michigan did it, I may feel differently, but come on, we're talking about Saban here.

jg2112

December 21st, 2010 at 9:57 PM ^

When power teams such as USC and Ohio State came to Minnesota this year, they practiced at local high schools and provided the "locals" (example: I believe USC practiced at Cretin-Derham Hall, Seantrel Henderson, Michael Floyd, Joe Mauer and my son's future high school) with some apparel, etc. BFD. If my son is given some free T-shirts by Mike Leach or Rich Rodriguez in 10 years when they stop by the high school and practice before their game at TCF, why the hell be butthurt about that?

Yeah, we're talking about Saban. When he does something that negatively impacts student-athletes such as oversigning and cutting players, he is in the wrong and definitely should be criticized for it. When his school provides services that a high school might need in improvements, if you're upset about that, you're just predisposed to being upset because it's Saban.

briangoblue

December 21st, 2010 at 10:12 PM ^

that it's Saban has predisposed me toward a cynical opinion, but I think you need to be careful of how close Alabama gets to crossing the line here. Maybe help out a smaller, mid-level school out of true generosity than try to make in-roads at a football powerhouse where your best recruits play. Also, t-shirts, etc, may not be a BFD, but I specifically remember Bo complaining about showing up to a recruit's house and seeing other teams' free swag in the kid's room. I'd rather schools follow his example than saying BFD to the mountain of tiny violations Kiffin and Tressel pile up. These kids are a little over a month from signing day- this is a convenient way for Saban to nod and wink at his recruits while not actually talking to them during the dead period. If one of his players wants to go make friends with Dee or HaHa (or strengthen an already existing friendship), bonus! Also, you've exceeded your limit on the use of the word "butthurt" in this thread. I certainly get where you're coming from, it's great for the kids, I'm just calling "bullshit" on Saban Claus here. 

jg2112

December 22nd, 2010 at 9:29 AM ^

Who cares about getting close to crossing the line?

If Alabama is not breaking any NCAA rules or laws, who gives a toss, other than this board?

Face it - if the Michigan football team decided to do this for DeMatha, or Cass Tech, or Trotwood-Madison, or Spartanburg (SC), you wouldn't have a problem with it one bit because THEY ARE DOING NOTHING WRONG, and you'd instead be pissed off at the "negative" treatment of Rodriguez by the Satanic MSM.

So, just stop it.

BostonWolverine

December 21st, 2010 at 9:44 PM ^

It's great for the school. There's no doubt about it. I love it that a public school is getting extra money. The problem is, colleges shouldn't have a role in high school athletics. Period. It's awful for the integrity of recruiting, and it's exploiting the players for financial gain. 

Watch the number of 'bama commits that pop out of there because of this. It renders moot what should be a very important decision for a young athlete to make.

This is hubris on the part of Alabama. And it's absolutely disgusting and exploitative, and it's just another drop in the SEC bucket. Nike (an Oregon company) outfitted Oregon with uniforms and facilities. That, while a little shady, makes sense - a local athletic company promoting local athletics and academics. It's entirely another to pay a pipeline school that's more than 500 miles away to use their facilities and then upgrade them for free.

Eff that.

Kal

December 21st, 2010 at 7:40 PM ^

I don't mind the $50 an hour that is going to the school, because you know they aren't going to turn around and spend that all on athletics (or at least I hope not). Improving the turf and spending your own dime on a school only to improve its football team's facilities sounds like a second agenda. I guess if they had also donated money to get the kids more books or something I'd be less offended.

Also in regards to this

BTW, not sure why this would affect recruiting and all - it has nothing to do with anything related to a kid's college football career.

You think all the talent in that DP pipeline isn't going to appreciate that their field was considerably improved by Alabama?

antonio_sass

December 21st, 2010 at 10:06 PM ^

You've got to give kids more credit than that. Who is going to make a decision on the next four years of his life because his high school once got new turf from a college? Tell me that that criteria is anywhere remotely close to coaches, depth chart, [university] facilities, tradition, school environment, system, education, geography, girls, weather, ability to produce NFL talent, getting given a house for your parents. It's not.

Togaroga

December 21st, 2010 at 11:09 PM ^

...what makes a difference is the high school coaches' opinions, biases, and guidance.  I think a we'd be far more naive to expect a high school coach who has benefited greatly from a relationship with Saban to not have positive feelings toward him as an individual and his program in general.  We'd also be foolish to assume that would carry no weight in terms of influencing recruits either consciously or unconsciously.  This stuff does matter and should be against the rules.  It is an example of Saban being shady.

Rabbit21

December 22nd, 2010 at 12:12 PM ^

I couldn't agree more.  I'd actually argue the problem would be if they used Dr. Phillips' facilities and then didn't upgrade them.  Having a large college team workout there for so long has to be hard on the overall facilities, it's a good will gesture at a school that has some Bama recruits and there is obviously an ulterior motive, but I still think it's the right thing to do.

Saban's still a dirtbag, but I don't think this goes on his ledger.

Bluerock

December 21st, 2010 at 7:34 PM ^

I bet he's got his pockets full of candy too, this shit not right.

The Bama and MSU game is going make my head hurt....hoping both teams lose badly.

mabrsu

December 21st, 2010 at 8:04 PM ^

This is one of those things that bothers me about the difference between our conferences. If something like this happened at Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. then this would be all over the news. Do you know why?  

The reason is because our fans truly care about cheating. We want to do things the right way. It is that reason it becomes newsworthy, since we will all go hooting and hollering about how our program cheated if this came out. 

In SEC country, the fans do not care about morality. They set up a culture that requires their coaches to cheat and achieve success so quickly it is impossible without doing so. They all know they are cheating, and a piece of news about cheating doesn't matter to them. They want to turn a blind eye to this stuff and not hear about it in the news. They would rather keep it in the barber shop, so they get away with it and win championships. Makes me sick

LB

December 21st, 2010 at 9:56 PM ^

how is it cheating? I think we should use local facilities and do the same thing, now that the precedent has been set. We can help local communities, improve the lot of young athletes, and showcase the university. in one fell swoop.

Denarded

December 21st, 2010 at 8:11 PM ^

Alabama is like Florida in last years recruiting. We're gonna take their 5 star safety to join our #1 all-purpose back who said it was "90 percent chance they will play together", but this time this 5 star safety will make it into Michigan, and be wearing a winged helmet on September 3rd against Western!!!

jg2112

December 21st, 2010 at 8:58 PM ^

Never underestimate the ability of a fanbase to get butthurt about the dumbest things.

Why the hell this matters, let alone why everyone is mad about it, boggles my mind.

jg2112

December 21st, 2010 at 9:15 PM ^

Maybe people are "angry" because anything that Nick Saban, Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, and Jim Tressel do to secure the long-term success of their football programs threatens Michigan.

Find me the law being broken, and then I'll feign some ANGAR. In the meantime, I'll applaud Saban for investing some money into a high school that undoubtedly needs the athletic resources.

Seriously - if the parents of recruits can be paid money now without the player being penalized, I really don't get the ANGAR over this gesture, which helps an entire school's population.

BostonWolverine

December 22nd, 2010 at 9:33 AM ^

Speak for yourself. I'm not pissed because it's Saban. I'm pissed because it's shady. It would be shady if Jesus were Alabama's coach (of course, everyone knows that Jesus runs a clean program). It would still be tampering.

Hey, I know I'm the defense attorney and you're on the jury, but I'm personally going to make sure your accommodations during the trial are top notch. You'll be moved to the Ritz.

I repeat: eff that.

jg2112

December 22nd, 2010 at 10:17 AM ^

Like I wrote above:

If Rich Rodriguez cut a check to improve Cass Tech's practice facilities (or, say, DeMatha), would you have a problem with it? I sure wouldn't.

And since I wouldn't have a problem with RR and Michigan doing it for Cass Tech or DeMatha, I sure can't be selectively hypocritical and be pissed at Saban.

BostonWolverine

December 22nd, 2010 at 10:55 AM ^

A couple things: if RR cut a check to Cass Tech to use and improve their facilities, I would be okay with it. Not because it's us. I also said in a previous post that I'm not pissed at Nike for totally revamping Oregon's facilities.

What I am pissed about is the following: Alabama is not going to use the facilities after they upgrade them because Orlando is 550 miles away from Tuscaloosa. They're putting money in to upgrade facilities they aren't going to use except when they end up in Orlando bowl games, which may or may not happen again for a while.

If RR cut a check to Cass Tech, at least we could use the facilities we paid for. Therefore, it's not an apt comparison. If he wrote a check to improve facilities at Terrelle Pryor's high school facilities in Pennsylvania 2 years ago, you bet your ass I would think it was shady. And I'd be pissed. Also if he had, we'd have Pryor on our team, which would also be kinda crappy.

But I digress.

The Nicker

December 22nd, 2010 at 10:40 PM ^

I like that you drop this line "if the parents of recruits can be paid money now without the player being penalized . . ." like, because Cam Newton got away with pay-for-play, everyone all over the country has now accepted that as an acceptable thing for a football program to do.

 

Newsflash, people were super pissed about Cam Newton. They are also angry, although not as angry, about this. Is it so hard for you to understand that what is found to be legal can also be found to be distasteful? Now, if you'll excuse me I have to go bang my 14-year-old wife (legal in TX).

naijablue

December 21st, 2010 at 9:22 PM ^

What makes this even more interesting is that Dr Phillips is not some destitute small town with no resources. Orlando people can correct me if I am wrong but this high school probably isn't even that old and the area is not low income.

IowaBlueFan

December 21st, 2010 at 10:09 PM ^

It doesn't make me mad at all, unless it affects the future recruiting from Dr Phillips...  Are there any more super studs (like Dee) coming up from Dr. Phillips like in two or three years?

trueblue262

December 22nd, 2010 at 8:25 AM ^

considered some sort of a violation. "20 minutes too much stretching? No, we won't allow that............Bribery to get future recruits by paying their high school.......your good to go"

Its not even in the same state?

Hannibal.

December 22nd, 2010 at 10:15 AM ^

We should do this at Detroit public schools until the practice is declared illegal.

This is definitely stretching the rules to their absolute limit.

This just proves, once again, that there are lots and lots of people with lots and lots of money, badly misplaced priorities, and a fanatical desire to see their favorite team win.  As a result, there's a huge pool of money just begging to squeeze its way into college athletics in any way possible.  It's hard to get away with paying off the recruits nowadays, so maybe you can gain an edge by paying off high schools.

DrewandBlue

December 22nd, 2010 at 11:02 AM ^

I was thinking about starting a new thread with this info but I figured I would place where applicable...Please note, this is from 2008-2009; I doubt much has changed (probably even more strict)

NCAA DIVISION I FOOTBALL COACHES OFF-CAMPUS RECRUITING GUIDE:

A contact is any face-to-face encounter between a prospect or the prospect’s parents, relatives or legal guardian(s) and an institutional staff member or athletics representative during which any dialogue
occurs in excess of an exchange of a greeting. Any such face-to-face encounter that is prearranged (e.g., positions himself/herself in a location where contact is possible) or that takes place on the grounds
of the prospect’s educational institution or at the site of organized competition or practice involving the prospect or the prospect’s high school, preparatory school, two-year college or all-star team shall be
considered a contact, regardless of whether any conversation occurs.

Here is the link:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/l…

AMazinBlue

December 23rd, 2010 at 12:29 AM ^

recruits that Satan, err, Saban was so hot after and Saban didn't have a history of bending the rules into pretzels, I might not think too much of it.  But since Dee Hart and Clinton Dix both go there, and it is a school that turns out many top notch recruits and isn't even in THE SAME FUCKING STATE, I have a HUGE problem with it.

Saban's dirty little tricks, "medical" red shirts, over-signing, putting down tape so the FG placeholder knows where to spot the ball for a kick, and probably a million other dirty little tricks, I might not care, but all the B1G schools and other  conferences that play by all the rules are not playing on a level playing field against this guy and the SEC.  This BS that the SEC is the best conference is simply that, BS.  Just like in The Sting when Doyle Lonigan asks Robert Redford how Paul Newman's character is such a good card player and he responds, "He cheats!"  That entire conference is crooked and yet again the NCAA turns a blind eye and deaf ear to all of it.  Auburn should be blown up completely and Saban and Miles should be foced to coach in Div. III where scholarships aren't allowed.

Aside from DH and CD, I might not care so much right now, but the crap this guy gets away with is amazing.

On what planet is upgrading a high-profile HS football facilities with blue-chip recruits right there during the no-contact period not a recruiting violation?  Not to mention creating an artificial advtantage over other schools vying for those kids' services?