Attendance was really bad last night

Submitted by Wolverine Devotee on

Announced attendance of 9,981 and it wasn't even close to that.

Especially bad for a Challenge game. 3rd worst-crowd for one here ever with the two ones that were worse being in the Ellerbe era and Beilein's first year where we won 10 games.

Football season still on the brain? Only averaging 10,074 through 4 games and that number will likely drop to 4 figures with the thrilling game on Saturday against Kennesaw State.

Maynard

December 1st, 2016 at 10:31 AM ^

It's disappointing but not a surprise. This is not a fun team to watch. I've never been a fan of this style of basketball that our program is currently using. I think a team is good when they are a reflection of their coach. I like JB but I would like our basketball program to be more like our football program or dare I say it....like the MSU program. I want tough interior defense that can intimidate opponents, rebound, dunk every once in a while with ferocity, and score some easy baskets. For all of the problems that came with the Fab 5, one thing you could always be sure of. They didn't give a fuck who their opponent was. They believed they were better on the court and would beat them. And most times they did. These teams we've had lately feel like they have more of a finesse mid-major type identity where they have to find a way to beat the big dogs. Fuck that. We should be one of the big dogs, and not just in getting to the Final Four or any of that. I mean attitude.

theytookourjobs

December 1st, 2016 at 10:35 AM ^

I'm not even remotely surprised.  I think a lot of people are over Beilein's program.  We've seen enough of baby soft big men and 4 guys standing around the 3 point line waiting to chuck up a contested shot with 2 seconds on the shot clock.  I am grateful to JB for bringing the program back from the dead, but it's high time for him to move on.  We need a major overhaul with a good young coach who can recruit.  

His Dudeness

December 1st, 2016 at 4:30 PM ^

Dude, it's basketball. After you take away all of the talent that gets paid. And I'm not screaming "bagmen SEC lol"I'm serious. It's a real thing. These kids have shoe contracts and deals with agents before they even go to "schools" like UK, Kansas and now Duke.

After you take all of those kids off the top, what do you have left?

You say "no talent bigs." How many talented bigs are there per year? 3? Maybe? And after UK and Kansas and UNC and Duke get to them? How many, maybe 1 if that?

This isn't football where you have 50-100 guys who could possibly add wins to your program.

7-footers with ball skills don't grow on trees. NBA talent shooters don't grow on trees.

We have to take projects at a lot of spots, man. Think about it. That's just the rules we have to play by now. We don't pay to play. We sell them on education and being able to learn a complex offense. Most NBA offenses aren't that complex because they have the talent to ISO and watch.

It's always been about expectations vs reality with this basketball program IMO. Belien is not perfect, but he is perfect for us again IMO.

MichiganMan14

December 1st, 2016 at 10:35 AM ^

1. The program is simply not exciting right now. 2. We lack high-level NBA talent. 3. People are frustrated with Beilein and the overall direction of the basketball program. We should be ELITE and we're not. 4. Couple with points 1 and 2...our brand of basketball just isn't appealing right now. We don't recruit transcendent players and the overall product we put on the floor is good but not what should be expected at Michigan. Many of us have felt this way for a few years now though so it's not new. Beilein has had a few excellent years but he's never recovered from the exodus of 2013-2014. Not sure if he will to be honest.

Tshimanga

December 1st, 2016 at 10:36 AM ^

in recent memory for a decent non conference opponent. We kind of chalked it up to football hangover. 

DJ Wilson played terrible and we don't have a closer. 

Tshimanga

December 1st, 2016 at 1:48 PM ^

But you know what I mean, we don't have any players with killer instinct. 

I think both Zak Irvin and Walton have been tremendously underwhelming and underachievers considering their recruiting ranks and hype coming out of HS.

Walton did have a solid frosh season (game winner @ OSU, Big Ten Champion, Elite 8, ETC), but man has it been disappointing thinking he was the next Burke... He's not even close to D Mo

Muppet Glee Club

December 1st, 2016 at 10:36 AM ^

The Maize Rage has basically died and this is a direct result. It was a pretty embarrassing showing and without a solid performance from the students the energy will be pretty flat. It seems that we could only get loud when people realized we were trailing with a minute left. Unfortunately each loss only makes it worse and worse.

Maynard

December 1st, 2016 at 11:07 AM ^

Well I wouldn't blame the audience at the theater if the movie is shitty. Spectators need to be excited, even inspired sometimes. I understand it is different because there is interaction between the crowd and players or coaches and the energy is not a one-way street, but I think we can all agree if you give people something to cheer for, you're more likely to get that.

Muppet Glee Club

December 1st, 2016 at 11:31 AM ^

I can't argue with that. I'm sure if we were a top 5 program right now the atmosphere would have been much different. However, the team has played well this year (outside of SC) and this was a top 30ish matchup per Kenpom. The bleachers weren't filled until right around tipoff. That was the first time I've seen that in this type of game in my 2+ years as a student and season ticket holder. On top of that, the team stormed out of the gates last night and gave us plenty to be excited about as a home crowd. I know I am more invested in athletics than most students, but to me it seemed like a great way to get pumped about the rest of the basketball season. For probably many reasons, this didn't happen.

ReegsShannon

December 1st, 2016 at 11:49 AM ^

On average, the student body at Michigan just doesn't care about sports (or atleast Michigan sports). Even football games are secondary to the tailgating for students. You need hype to get people to show up because they aren't knowledgable. Michigan, frankly, has no hype after being so bad the last two years. Attendance (particularly early-season attendance) is always gonna correlate to the previous year. 

That number next to your team name really matters for casual fans.

BursleyBaitsBus

December 1st, 2016 at 4:27 PM ^

Lol if you think the average Michigan student doesn't care about Michigan sports, you haven't talked to the average D1 student then. 

Most people aren't even aware of their team being relevant. 

 

Michigan fans at least know what's up every year with regards to the big 3 sports. 

 

 

On top of that, you have a bad product on the court ie the basketball and hockey teams affecting attendance. 

 

 

Blue and Joe

December 1st, 2016 at 10:37 AM ^

I think it will be fine once we get into the meat of the season. Hard to get excited about November basketball, especially with all the excitement from football season. That's not an uncommon sight if you look around the country right now. The basketball "Blue Bloods" like Duke, NC, and Indiana have packed gyms, but that's their sport.

Clarence Boddicker

December 1st, 2016 at 1:51 PM ^

It feels like the b-ball program is settling into a comfortable mediocrity. The talent is okay, but I'm not seeing any first or second team All-B1G players in the top 8. It doesn't look like we'll see an uptick in recruiting anytime soon, so hopefully continued improvement is in offing. Time to lower expectations though.

Qonas

December 1st, 2016 at 10:42 AM ^

I'm not going to make any comments, "constructive" or not, about the talent or coaching of the team. To me I'm not going to attend solely based on price. If the team was still the same dynamic uber-talented Final Four group, I could understand and be willing to pay for these tickets.

But the team isn't that, and unfortunately the prices don't reflect that. If they came down to a more reasonable level, I wouldn't have any qualms. But right now the tickets are quite simply priced too high for the product presented on the court.

tpilews

December 1st, 2016 at 11:23 AM ^

I agree with the above about ticket prices. Looking at UM's site, tickets go for $15-$25 for Kennesaw St and $25-$50 for premium games like Indiana. 

I live in Tallahassee, so I have a bit of a different perspective. I saw the women's team play UConn for $6/ticket. I can go to a men's game for $7. I can get tickets to the Duke game for $15. 

2Blue4You

December 1st, 2016 at 11:02 AM ^

I've been a season ticket holder for a number of years and I did the Math recently and realized we pay about $17/game per ticket. I think only a small handful of games are worth more and another small handful might be worth that while the vast majority are worth next to nothing.

I enjoy the excuse to get out and get some Michigan sports when it is easy to stay home with the kids, but it does seem a bit high. Especially walking in to a few cupcake games recently with extra family looking for a single and paying $15! for a single at the box office just to get in the door vs. Nobody St.



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jbrandimore

December 1st, 2016 at 10:48 AM ^

If you rely on single game purchases, you are dead in the water to begin with.

 

What sort of moron would buy season tickets to this crappy schedule?

 

We basically play Trump University 9 times with the ACC challenge mixed in before league play.

 

Start scheduling like MSU - even if that might mean you lose 4-6 games before league play.

MGoBender

December 1st, 2016 at 11:11 AM ^

Hey! I bought season tickets!

$350 for upper lever, behind the Maize rage about 3 sections off center.  10 rows up.  They are pretty good seats and you see the action very well.

I, admittedly, am a huge MBB fan.  Bigger than football maybe.  I had student tickets before I was a student and then all 6 years of undergrad and grad school.

The Maize Rage has been killed.  They fucked it up, bad.  The team got good and then you had an infllux of bandwagoners.  Some of those bandwagoners were able to go early and fill the bleachers, but the section lost it's character, some diehards were pushed out and then as the team descended from the Trey Burke era, the bandwagoners left.  

Last night "Zombie Nation" was played and the Maize Rage didn't even chant "We Own Penn State."  Also, the banning of cowbells has had a real negative impact on the atmosphere.  Maize Rage leaders used to lead the entire arena in cowbell chants, but now we get the Arby's Hat Shuffle.

It's sad.

The athletic department had a chance to make the right move and extend the bleachers. That'd allow more students to be in the student section (that side section where people just sit in their seats... come on). But they didn't want to move any high-paying season ticket holders, whose attendance is not terrible, but probably barely above 70% on the year.  The student section, if it was done right, could probably add 400 students and stay above 75% for all games IF it was one continuous section.

ReegsShannon

December 1st, 2016 at 11:20 AM ^

I'm gonna have to disagree with your assessment on the Maize Rage. I was raised an MSU fan and was a freshman at UM during the Final Four year. I bought tickets for the next 3 years until I graduated and then attended almost every single game in the first few rows of the lower bowl. I don't think there was any issue with diehards getting pushed out, it's just that the number of diehards are very very small. It takes a special kind of person to be diehard to the product that has been put out. It takes a real commitment and love of the team that most people simply do not have for basketball, particularly for a mediocre team. 

I wish I could say that expanding the lower bowl, or scheduling better opponents would increase attendance, but I doubt it. That's not what people care about. They just want to go to games and not watch them lose.

MGoBender

December 1st, 2016 at 11:44 AM ^

2010-11 was my last year, so I appreciate your insight.

During the Amaker years there was a group of maybe 200 that really brought energy to the arena. As I became one of those that was routinely in the center section, the team got better. Suddenly, after having spent 3 years attending bullshit games, I found myself fight tooth and claw just to get in the bleachers.

It used to be a seniority thing - bleachers were given out based on seniority; if your tickets weren't bleachers but the game was bad, the ushers just let you go in so the bleachers filled up.

It seems now they have a million hoops to jump through and if you have to pay a high price, jump through hoops, attend garbage games, show up extraordinarily early all to sit in a section that has regular joe-shmoe alums with families inbetween you and the actual student section, then how are you going to create diehards?

I think that's what I'm getting at.  It's tough to BECOME a die-hard right now because of all the hoops. The numbers are not actually terrible.  The bleachers were full last night and there were probably another 150-200 in that section between the bleachers and the band.  But those 150-200 certainly weren't having the same experience that the students in the bleachers were having.

 

ReegsShannon

December 1st, 2016 at 11:51 AM ^

I get that the situation for students isn't perfect, but it's not that bad. You can still have an engaging experience in Section 130/upper bowl if you are willing to bring energy. The few times I was up there, I managed to bring a little life. If you start energy, other people will tend to follow, and the ticket prices should be cheaper, but it's not break the bank expensive or anything. The claim system also really isn't that hard. Just remember the claim day and then pick your tickets. They should probably get rid of it (they originally added it so they could oversell student tickets and then resell any unused) with attendance so bad, but it's not really a barrier to entry, IMO. I'll say this, none of this was a major problem for students three years ago when the team was good. But now that it's bad, student attendance has dropped about 50-66%. We have yet to fill up the entire lowerbowl all year...So no matter when a student shows up, he has a lowerbowl seat to get to. 

I really think it just comes down to team performance. Unless you're insane like us, you don't wanna go to a game if they are gonna lose all the time.

BornInA2

December 1st, 2016 at 10:51 AM ^

I've been less and less interested in M men's basketball as the one-dimensional style that Beilien uses has gotten less and less effective.

If and when we can shoot lights-out from behind the arc we can win. If we can't we lose. No inside game, poor defense, not much of what I'd call toughness. So when Beilein hits the lottery and gets a Burke or Stauskas, things go well. Same thing when I hit the lottery. But I don't count on that happening and Beilein seems to.

Bottom line: If you want people to be excited about your team, have an exciting team and win. Otherwise you get empty seats and find yourself tempted to give away tickets with six-packs of Coke or other dumb things.

MGoBender

December 1st, 2016 at 11:15 AM ^

We shot fine yesterday.  We scored 70 points.  That's not why we lost. 

You overgeneralize badly.  Michigan's offense isn't anymore "one-dimensional" than anyone else's.  In fact, yesterday, they ran some really interesting counters to get Wagner the ball.  One was out of a timeout and it worked beautifully.  

For some reason, Wagner is in the dog house, though. It seems part of it is he is still a little behind on knowing all the plays and sets. Part of it is defense.  I do wish Beilein would loosen the leash on his though and let him play through the mistakes.

Don

December 1st, 2016 at 10:59 AM ^

of a few years ago when it came to recruiting. When we didn't see any dramatic impact in the first recruiting class after the 2013 NC game appearance, the general response was, "that's the way basketball recruiting is—we'll have to wait for another year for the recruiting uptick to happen."

We're still waiting.

4yearsofhoke

December 1st, 2016 at 11:03 AM ^

Season Student tickets (at least since 2012/3 not sure what it's like now) for basketball are a gigantic pain in the ass. The bowl section is usually never full, but they insist on having you claim your tickets multiple times during the season. They don't include every game, you're not guaranteed tickets to some games, and the list goes on and on. It's so confusing I stopped bothering after my frosh year.

How about given the interest, just having the students line up up and swipetheir mcard (free admission) and increasing student season football tickets by like 10 dollars a season to make up for it? Even with Burke etc... the upper bowl was never full (besides like MSU,OSU)

4yearsofhoke

December 1st, 2016 at 6:33 PM ^

First you pay like 2-300 dollar for season tickets.

Second you get season tickets that omit some games (over breaks)

Third you have to attend games against Wayne St (exhibitions etc... to be able to claim tickets against MSUs, OSUs, etc...)

Fourth its annoying to transfer tickets to another student.

Fifth - the place is never full in the first place, I don't know why there's all these hoops (+ being expensive) to jump through.

During basketball season you have to stay on top of your shit to make sure you're able to go to games. It's annoying. Not like football - you buy season tickets and you're done. Buying student basketball tickets is an on-going process like your playing candycrush. Make it simple - it's never full.

Perkis-Size Me

December 1st, 2016 at 11:06 AM ^

That's what happens when your team loses and is just not any fun to watch. You could blame the Saturday game on football malaise and a crappy opponent, but this is a B1G/ACC Challenge game at home days afterwards. Football had nothing to do with last night's showing. 

People don't like watching a losing product. This team is boring, has no star power, and predictably falls apart in the second half of every meaningful game it plays. Its a team that tries to play hero ball, but does not have any actual heroes who know how to play it. 

username03

December 1st, 2016 at 11:09 AM ^

There is no reason for Michigan basketball to aspire to be the 'little engine that could' team. Since that is what we've been for a while now, no one should be surprised that attendance is down. 

ReegsShannon

December 1st, 2016 at 11:14 AM ^

For basketball in general, attendance will never be good unless you can develop a consistent tradition of success that will drive people to attend. That's how it is everywhere. Michigan hoops has finished in the top 25 only 3 times in the past 18 years, and only 4 times in the past 22. Beilein has also only elevated our program from horrible to mediocre (he has finished in the top 25 3 times in the past 9 years). 

Mediocre just isn't good enough to drive attendance for hoops particularly when our last two years we missed the NIT and were a play-in team. The farther away we get from a successful year, the worse attendance will get. If Michigan hoops doesn't have a top 25 season this year, attendance is gonna get insanely bad.

KC Wolve

December 1st, 2016 at 12:09 PM ^

True this. While I was at KSU I never attended 1 BB game. They were and had been horrendous forever. Enter Frank Martin, some higher profile recruits, and wins, and I even made the 2 hour trip from KC occasionally. Wins fix everything. KSU runs off Frank, no more wins and the arena is empty.



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Duke of Zhou

December 1st, 2016 at 11:20 AM ^

I was displeased to see that the entire upper bowl was mostly vacant on a few of the camera shots that pointed in that direction.  As a result, the crowd was relatively moribund last night.  Michigan shouldn't have blown the game, but they didn't get much support from the crowd last night.