BigBlue02

May 22nd, 2018 at 10:44 AM ^

Or, being a better coached team works for them. Dantonio kicking the shit out of Hoke and RichRod was less about them having a chip on their shoulder and more about them actually being a better team with a better coach. Since Harbaugh has been here, Dantonio has been outcoached 2 out of the three years and they are a once in a lifetime play away from being 1-2 against him. Them doing tacky shit doesn’t work. Them being better coached does, and that time is over

BigBlue02

May 22nd, 2018 at 11:36 AM ^

Ah yes, MSU made the old “have the opposing punter muff it and throw it directly to your guy running down the sideline” play. The end result of that game was MSU needed us to fuck up a play that we do not fuck up literally 999 out of 1000 times. If the punter falls on the ball and MSU hits a 60 yard field goal to win the game, then MSU would have made the plays to win it. It’s ok to admit that MSU should be 1-2 against Harbaugh. Sometimes excuses can be valid, like saying Harbaugh has outcoached Dantonio twice in three years but only got 1 win out of it. And I don’t feel better about saying Harbaugh outcoached him, I’m pissed that he is 1-2 against him. But hey, maybe Harbaugh can go 3-9 so that when he wins 10 games the next year, everyone can be super excited about how good a coach he is rather than bitching about an 8 win season

uncle leo

May 22nd, 2018 at 11:41 AM ^

They aren't. And while I think Harbaugh is a great coach, he has faults. 

In that very play, why the F does he have gunnars going up the field on an all-out punt block? But, I'm not going to go down this road again, it's been done enough.

Yeah, Dantonio had a bad season. Guess what? He's also been to the playoff, won multiple Big Ten titles, and took a program that was basically lifeless and made them really good. Put it this way: If Harbaugh doesn't get them to the title game this season, there's some serious cause for concern. This guy came in with accolades and talk that I've never heard in my 32 years of life in Michigan. And so far, the results just aren't there. I'm still hoping for the best, but it's disengenous to say that Michigan now has a better coach and the others will just fade away in his prescense. 

ijohnb

May 22nd, 2018 at 12:08 PM ^

is all just getting too far away from the initial issue of whether the lack of "countdown clocks" or other rivalry bulletin board material has any bearing on whether the Michigan football program under Harbaugh puts enough "emphasis" on the rivalry and whether it has any bearing on the outcome of the game.

I see no evidence that Michigan "wants" these games any less than MSU or OSU.  I am not even particularly sure what that means.  I have scarcely seen a Michigan team play harder than the last the last two years against Ohio State to try win The Game.  The coaching staff devised and saved almost an entire playbook last year to beat OSU.  Tyree Kinnel basically gave up his body in the fourth quarter last year to try to win that game.  That was not an undermotivated team.

As for the MSU stuff, shit happens.  We did not put the game away in 2015 and Michigan State had a great quarterback that kept them in it.  Last year was a fluke.  It sucked.  There is no question about that, but it is not going to happen again this year.  Michigan State is not going to beat us again this year, they are not very good.  We have better players and better coaches than they do and we will beat them convincingly. 

Regarless of what Mike Valenti might say, Harbaugh does not have an "MSU problem."  He has had a couple of bad breaks.  The kick six was what it was, it was a really crazy sports moment that will be hard to ever duplicate.  Last year he lost his best WR and his starting QB in the two weeks leading up to the game.  MSU is a non-issue.

UMxWolverines

May 22nd, 2018 at 12:22 PM ^

There's no basis that we're going to kick the shit out of MSU besides what's in your own head, we didn't even kick the shit out of them the year they won 3 games and lost a handful of players.

ijohnb

May 22nd, 2018 at 1:24 PM ^

we did.  And I think we are going to beat them handily because I don't think they are very good, nor do I think they were very good last year.  I am not denying they have been good in the past, they have been.  I just don't think they are now.  I think they were very fortuitous last year against Michigan and Penn State for a whole host of reasons and that they were thoroughly exposed against OSU.  I don't care about WSU in a bowl game with a freshman backup QB.

trueblueintexas

May 22nd, 2018 at 3:50 PM ^

It's great you are very confident Michigan will win this year. However, since 2006 (the last time Michigan beat MSU easily 31-13), the facts are MSU is 8-3 vs.Michigan. In the three Michigan wins the margin of victory has been 4, 2, and 9. Sadly, the facts are, Michigan has not beat MSU handily for 11 years.

This is about as bad as the 1950 - 1963 stretch where MSU had a record of 10-2-2 vs Michigan. Seven of those games were lopsided affairs. 

I enjoy every win, but to say Michigan finally has the world back in order will require being able to look back and say Michigan is 3-0 the past three years or Michigan is 5-2 over the past seven games against MSU. Not one win, not even two. 

It's a high bar Michigan has set for itself. That's the reality. That is why guys choose to play at Michigan. The expectations are very high.

HAIL-YEA

May 23rd, 2018 at 2:16 AM ^

why don't you lick their balls some more?  We know what happened but no matter how bad you want him to be Harbaugh can't be held responsibles for RR and Hoke years! He has been here 3 years, if not for some terrible luck he could 3-0 against MSU. He is 1-2 instead and that's fine, I know dam well we've been the better team and if we played 10 times those games I feel we would win more than 6 of them. So when we are about to put out the best team we have had in at least 12 years, I don't see a problem with not worrying about MSU

ijohnb

May 23rd, 2018 at 9:24 AM ^

disagree on how good Michigan State is right now.  That is the issue.  I don't think are very good.  Prognostications about MSU are made largely on the back of their wins over Michigan and Penn State last year.  It is crazy not to consider the circumstances of those games in the equation.  I watched State a lot last year.  I don't think the outcomes of those games painted a legitimate picture as to how good they are.  There were several plays in the first half of the Michigan that distorted the outcome significantly.  Our defense forced them off the field after Izaac's fumble, only to see them get a fresh set of downs on a BS penalty.  Lewerky's TD was on a broken play that was an inch from being a coverage sack.  On their ensuing scoring drive, Felton Davis wound up having a ball fall right into his hands on a third down pass and pray when two Michigan defenders took away interceptions from each other.  They broke off one very good one run on a counter that our defense wasn't prepared for, that was a breakdown. 

Really, whoever was leading that game when the weather came was going to win.  Michigan State was fortuitous and got a couple of breaks that put them in a position to win a game they had no business winning.  The Penn State game was delayed for nearly 4 hours.  You can take basically nothing from that game given the circumstances.  Michigan State went to the Horseshoe and played a "full strength-no weather- game against OSU and got slapped around comically.  Michigan was far more competitive with OSU playing a QB that literally could not really even execute the basics.

I am not sitting here saying that at no time in the last 10 years has State being far better than Michigan.  The results speak for themselves.  I just think Michigan is going to be a far better team this year that State is going to be.  When I say "kick the shit out of them," I don't think the final score is going to be like 45-10.  I just believe that Michigan will impose their will on State and win the game authoritatively.  Now, if the forecast for that day is sideways rain and small hail with 50 mile per hour wins for a lot of the second half, all bets are off.  Than it is a coin-toss, really against any competitive BIG team.

UMxWolverines

May 23rd, 2018 at 10:58 AM ^

The saying goes "you are what your record says you are", not all these ifs and buts that we've been doing with them for literally a decade now. I think we're going to improve as a team, but they have the ability to improve also. We will never beat MSU based on talent alone, OSU doesn't even do that sans last year. They have too much hate built up. They played us close most years even with goobers Bobby and JLS coaching them.

HAIL-YEA

May 23rd, 2018 at 1:57 AM ^

Who gives a shit what their record was, we played them with Okorn as our starting qb in a game monsoon. We turned it over 5 times and still only lost 14-10 and had a chance to win on the last drive. We were the more talented team except at qb which was their best player and our gaping hole. Patterson at qb and Warriner as oline coach, along with the receivers getting  year older and having actual wr coaches with Roundtree and the alleged shark fucker.We are a legit playoff contender this year, MSU is not.

BigBlue02

May 22nd, 2018 at 12:57 PM ^

First off, I never said all other coaches will fade away. You said that. I said him kicking the shit out of Hoke and RichRod has no bearing on his games against an actual good coach. His games against our last two coaches means as much moving forward as his game against Lloyd that he lost. Our fanbase is so used to inept coaching that they are holding the cluster fuck of Hoke and RichRod against Jim. Yes, Jim does have faults. Jim’s faults didn’t lead to a 3 win season. My point in bringing that up is that Dantonio has faults too. Dantonio is a shitty human being who lets his team do whatever they want. MSU is a shithole and he is perfect for them. I would rather have Harbaugh than Dantonio any day of the week and Dantonio can fuck right off with his rape enabling and steroid pushing.

I’ll say this one time only as I have said it numerous times-the punt formation on that play had zero effect on the punter dropping the ball. Punters see pressure on every punt, he fumbled the ball before he even looked up at the pressure, and throwing it directly to an MSU player was not caused by 2 of our guys not being close in the formation. With this line of thinking, we might as well blame Harbaugh for calling running plays instead of passing plays while they were crowding the line in the plays leading up to that punt. I mean, if he ran a pass play, we could have picked up a first down.

Also, I’m not convinced you are actually a Michigan fan, but saying we should have serious concerns if we don’t make the B10 title any year when Urban Meyer is the coach at OSU is really fucking dumb. What if OSU wins the national championship this year and Michigan wins 12 games including a bowl game against Alabama? Should we be concerned then? Although, there are plenty of people on this board concern trolling about things years in advance, so have at it. What happens if he doesn’t make the National championship game in the next 4 years? Should we all be super concerned?

UMxWolverines

May 22nd, 2018 at 12:10 PM ^

Harbaugh should have called a timeout when he saw we were in the wrong punt formation just like he should have called a timeout when he knew the handoff was going to McKeon in the Outback Bowl. It's not bad luck we're losing these games, it's attention to the smallest details.

How has Harbaugh been a better coach than Dantonio since he's been here? Dantonio has won more games 2 out of 3 years and has a big ten title.

ijohnb

May 22nd, 2018 at 12:24 PM ^

did not have any timeouts.  He probably should have taken a delay of game either instead of the last timeout or after he saw the formation but that pushes us further back into our own territory for the punt and that was a sketchy proposition to begin with.  He probably should have ran outside to burn more time off the clock so that we would not have to punt but that brings in more moving parts and fumble angles for the running backs to negotiate.   Actually, he really should have taken 8 more seconds off the clock before the Houma touchdown in the 3rd quarter because it was clear to everybody exactly what was going to transpire in every facet for the rest of the game by that point, right.

All of that is revisionist and 20/20 hindsight and not even the most pessimistic fan in the world was thinking those things at the time because they did not know THAT outcome was on the table.  It was an act of god.  It was not poor coaching.

uncle leo

May 22nd, 2018 at 12:28 PM ^

Have the wrong punt formation on and not call that poor coaching?

Why do you continue to pass the ball over, and over, and over again with O'Korn when it's raining sideways?

How do you have Speight throw from the back of his end zone, twice, against OSU?

The guy makes mistakes. He's not perfect. He's a very good coach, and he still has a lot to accomplish here.

ijohnb

May 22nd, 2018 at 12:40 PM ^

not saying he does not make mistakes.  I agree he does.  I think Harbaugh is a work in progress.  He has been a head coach in college football for a total of 8 years including his time at Michigan.  We did not hire a finished product.  We did, however, hire a coach that took 5-7 and made it 10-3 two years in a row and completely revitalized the program.   There have been a few bumps in the road.  Last year was dissapointing, but did not completely eliminate his body of work thus far.  I think he continues to learn every game and that this program is going to be quite spectacular when it is all said and done.

uncle leo

May 22nd, 2018 at 12:42 PM ^

But it's silly calling MSU a non-issue. They are clearly a damn good program. If they are a non-issue, I wish Michigan was also a non-issue. At least we could have experienced some top-level success in the last decade.

ijohnb

May 22nd, 2018 at 12:55 PM ^

do not think they are a "damn good" program.  I think their athletic programs have proven to be toxic and have become a public safety concern in East Lansing.  I think their players are dirty and that most of the players that they send to the pros are malcontents and flame out.  I think they tripped into the Playoff three years ago and got their ass handed to them and haven't done anything of consequence since.  I am not slobbering over MSU.  We played them in a monsoon last year and the most significant play of the game was a gift unsportsmanlike conduct on a 4th down that lead directly to their first score and changed the entire tenor of the game.  I can't wait for us to play them again this year.  I am very much looking forward to seeing it. 

Fezzik

May 22nd, 2018 at 12:04 PM ^

2015 should never have been this close of a game, period. But we let it be.  And then all we needed to do is get a first down to end the game...we couldn't do it. We need to quit counting our close losses against rivals as some kind of positive thing. 

As far as outcoahing dantonio that game...they had 20 first downs to our 10, outgained us in total yards 386 to 230, had less penalties than us, and we had 1 turnover to their 0. That does not seem like a game we outcoached anybody. We got outcoached last year, despite the bye week prior to msu, in the monsoon game. I'd say we were outcoached two out of three years by dantonio and our losses accurately reflect that.

MichiganFan1984

May 22nd, 2018 at 11:49 AM ^

Take part of what was said above.... add this person in the GIF (and the words in The GIF) and that’s ironic. If it offended you, you’re too sensitive and looking for a reason to be offended. I honestly hope that clarifys it, if it doesn’t then sorry. Also the fact that you were offended by what I said but not by the dude that Mo was replying to is real scary.