FauxMo

September 16th, 2016 at 5:37 PM ^

This reminds me of an Onion article from several years ago, talking about how more and more retirees were moving to their old college towns to live our their final years. One of the things the male retirees were learning (sadly), was that saying "I stormed the beach at Normandy" didn't get them laid anymore... :-D

mgokev

September 16th, 2016 at 5:48 PM ^

No, not really. Maybe you and I have different definitions of sorrow. I acknowledge they were bad things...I don't wallow in despair over them. Shit happened, the world is a terrible place, the world has been terrible since its existence. *shrugs* I don't feel sorrow over it. Do you shed a tear for the Nazis that died?

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SalvatoreQuattro

September 16th, 2016 at 5:55 PM ^

Possessing empathy is not wallowing. Just because you do not possess much empathy for your fellow human beings that does not mean others do not.

I find all deaths in war sad regardless of the side, but clearly the victims of the Nazis warrant much more pity than Nazis themselves.

Yes, this crap has been going on forever. So have a lot of things. That is no justification for indifference.

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FauxMo

September 16th, 2016 at 5:58 PM ^

I think we've come to the heart of the matter. Empathy and sorrow are very different things. I can feel empathy at times with people who suffered tragedies long before my life. But rarely does that bring me to a state of "sorrow," which is a sort of profound feeling of distress, sadness, loss, etc. 

SalvatoreQuattro

September 16th, 2016 at 6:11 PM ^

I guess I am just more sensitive to this. I spent a sizable chunk of of my 20's reading about the Nazis. I finally had to stop because it was taking a toll.

I think and read a lot about history and what it means. So I have a radically different view of events like Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust than most. To me they are as real as any current event.

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Gucci Mane

September 16th, 2016 at 6:09 PM ^

Mr. SQ, I'm glad you care about past events. Remembering the past to honor them, as well as prevent more violence is important. I really don't care if you feel more "sorrow" than me. Whatever oh want to label it; why are people posting many comments about semantics ? Anyway it is worth considering that there are many terrible acts of violence happening today. I would love to talk about them but anything that can be considered political is censored here like we are in a North Korean prison cell.

ST3

September 16th, 2016 at 11:28 PM ^

I couldn't disagree more. Humans have created systems to provide free education to children. Humans have established hospitals to care for the ill and injured. Humans have set up political bodies so that our disagreements can be debated instead of fought over. Humans have created religions to reinforce morality in the public square. Humans have traveled to the moon. Humans have invented communications networks so that families can stay in touch even if they live on different continents. And humans invented football.

ST3

September 17th, 2016 at 10:53 AM ^

I've never killed, raped, or beaten anyone, ever, nor have I ever been killed, raped, or beaten. If that's what we're best at, I'm doing something wrong. Have you ever killed, raped, or beaten anyone? Have you been killed, raped, or beaten? Your hyperbole is so over the top it's ridiculous.

I'm not a serious student of history, but I know enough to know that we've gone from a situation where 10's of millions of people died during our wars to now where thousands die. Yes, people still die, but don't forget, there are about 7 billion people on the planet. I would say that what humans do best is create, not destroy. But it's really a ridiculous statement, as most of your statements are, since how does one go about quantifying what an entire species does best?

aratman

September 17th, 2016 at 2:02 PM ^

I ask because I am 45 and knew alot of WW2 vets growing up.  They were my generations grand parents, and I feel very strongly connect to WW2 through their stories.  I have no feelings what so ever about the Civil War battles outside of the end of slavery, but the WW2 generation knew people who were involved with the Civil war and felt like I do about WW2.  You likely aren't directly connected to those he fought.

mgokev

September 17th, 2016 at 2:49 PM ^

I am connected to those who fought. My grandfather who recently passed was a part of the beach invasion at Omaha Beach. He lived into his 90s, fortunately. I think it's horrible, war is terrible, and I empathize with those that have been affected. My point was that the "sorrow that never fades" is a little hyperbolic and over the top dramatic for a post about uniforms. Hell, I visited the USS Arizona memorial and stood there with others recognizing what happened and the gravitas of what it meant for the future course of humanity. But, come on, sorrow that never fades on a sports blog about jerseys? It came across as a little self-pious, IMO, in a "I will forever grieve more than you" way.

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FauxMo

September 16th, 2016 at 5:26 PM ^

Do I think we have a historical duty to remember terrible events from the past, especially (as you say in another reply) human atrocities like the holocaust or slavery? Absolutely.

 

Do I feel "sorrowful" about an event that happened 33 years before my birth, and that my closest connection to is my grandfather, who was in the service in Europe at the time? No, not especially. 

SalvatoreQuattro

September 16th, 2016 at 5:31 PM ^

World War Two was an atrocity. Why you separate that from slavery or the Holocaust I have no clue. I also find it strange that you do sorrow in the deaths of nearly 3000 human beings. Proximity to an event really should not matter. Human life is human life. The violent extinguishing of it should sadden any human.

I feel sorrow because slaves, Holocaust victims, and sailors and soldiers were humans like us. They loved like us. They aspired for more like us. They dreamed like us. For someone not feel sorrow at their fate is peculiar to me.

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FauxMo

September 16th, 2016 at 5:35 PM ^

So, do you still feel bad about the Mongol Conquests of the 13th century? That was quite possibly even deadlier than WWII, and certainly more brutal when you consider the weapons of war at the time. For me, it is a historical atrocity, not something I ponder with deep emotion any more... 

SalvatoreQuattro

September 16th, 2016 at 5:41 PM ^

Yes. I pity all those who die violently. I do have more a connection with Pearl Harbor due to both of my grandfathers serving as Marines in the Pacific. But whenever I read of a war or massacre or some other catastrophic event I pity those involved.

I do not spend hours crying over it or become depressed, but I do feel empathy for those victims. Those who died in the Mongol wars were not just numbers. They were human beings. This appreciation for their humanity is lost in the conventional telling of history.

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SalvatoreQuattro

September 16th, 2016 at 6:17 PM ^

Btw, no way where the Mongel Conquests more brutal. Getting limbs blown off, incinerated by fire, stabbed by a bayonet, tortured and then killed, and a wide variety of other forms of killing were perfected in WWII.

If stabbing, slashed, and being pieced by arrows is you definition of the worst form of killing then many wars would for that bill.

But they are not. Not by a long shot. The use of gas in WWI for example. Choking on your vomit.WWII gave us vivisection, use of biological weapons, the atomic bomb, firebombings, mass killing by zyklon b and carbon monoxide...do not see how any war can come close to matching that in sheer brutality.

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