Another question for coach-type folks
This isn't a rant. This is just an objective question for our astute MGoBlog community folks that have coaching experience:
How do you instruct discipline for your team when it comes to avoiding penalties? It's apparent that the penalties caused a heap of consternation amongst the coaching staff today (any facepalm counts?), but how have you managed to reduce or mitigate thosefor your own squad?
Does it come down to simple technique, or does it require more individual instruction?
October 16th, 2010 at 7:32 PM ^
Run a lot. Watch film. Then run some more.
October 16th, 2010 at 7:34 PM ^
Just face palmed myself after reading this!
October 16th, 2010 at 7:40 PM ^
I do all my ranting via text -- I'd rather take my frustrations out on my friends and confidants than a random e-community.
Anyway, I ask these questions (had a similar one a few weeks ago post-Indiana) because I'm an idiot when it comes to understanding how a football team is coached. There's plenty of current and former coaches on this site that can provide an objective opinion on these things, and instead of adding fuel to the ZOMG FIRE COACHES ROR, I'd rather have an idea of how our winged fellas are receiving instruction on a day to day basis.
October 16th, 2010 at 8:58 PM ^
Numurous push-ups after F-ups taught me when I was a kid.
October 16th, 2010 at 7:38 PM ^
"We are going to make the wind sprint an art form."
October 16th, 2010 at 7:40 PM ^
is the key! young players easily lose focus and get distracted. and as you know we are extremely young. whats great about a game like this is the coaching staff has film on every mental error and can use it to coach the players up. its a matter of time before we see a juggernaut of a michigan team. keep the faith.
October 16th, 2010 at 7:41 PM ^
I would think, if you had other options on defense, you would be able to sit guys who are causing penalties, or at least play them second string in practice to get the point across. When your starters are clearly better than their backups, it can be hard to do that.
October 16th, 2010 at 7:45 PM ^
It's that simple
October 16th, 2010 at 8:02 PM ^
October 16th, 2010 at 8:09 PM ^
Taylor Lewan will probably burn about 80000 extra calories these next two weeks running steps.
October 16th, 2010 at 8:23 PM ^
What we do where I coach is have scrimmage situations where the coaches act as refs (Michigan could hire refs for a day if they wanted). Every time there is a penalty found you mark it down under that kid's name. After practice they run for every penalty. Simple, effective and gets the point across. If they continue to cause penalties in games then you sit them out a quarter or longer if it keeps happening.
October 16th, 2010 at 8:23 PM ^
I’m a Michigan grad living in Iowa and my boss is a Spartan so the last couple of weeks have been a challenge! It’s my first post…so I should clarify upfront I am not a fan of the spread offense. I realize that most big ten teams have spread formations in at least some portion of their offensive sets which does give me some sense of confidence but I’m just not convinced you can use it to the degree coach Rodriguez does in the big ten.
Why I don’t like the spread:
Under previous regimes in any game, no matter how far behind we might be I always knew we were going to rally. Obviously we didn’t always come back, but I always believed we would.
This was never more true than when our in state brethren to the west were running the spread. It always seemed inevitable to me that they would falter when their gimmick offense misfired and we would take over the game and dominate the final quarters sealing yet another victory. Suffice to say my exposure to some version of the spread has been:
- Lions “Run & Shoot” – remember that epic collapse against Washington?
- Spartans under John L – I remember this fondly, but Spartans likely do not
- Wolverines under Rodriguez – 2 years of misery and now our 3rd loss to Sparty
We are now in our third year under coach Rodriguez and I have five questions for the stats lovers out there:
- From a spread offensive set are there teams that have success in inclement weather conditions?
- Are teams running spread offensive sets less likely to be able to hold a late game lead than teams running pro style offenses?
- Is there any statistical evidence that team which primarily employ the spread offense with typically have a sub par defense?
- Is there a statistically valid way to measure the production of NFL players between teams running pro set, and teams running primarily spread offense?
- Are teams running spread offensive sets more likely to have penalties on offense?
Convince me that my longing for the good old days of Biakabutuka running roughshod over Bucky are just a sign I’ve become a football curmudgeon.
October 16th, 2010 at 8:40 PM ^
1. Please find the appropriate forum topic to post this in.
2. TL;DR
3. Ok, I did read. Your exposure to the spread is piss-poor. See: Florida's 2 national championship teams with top 10 defenses. See: Oregon this year. Heck, see: The top 5 teams in the country after OSU loses.
October 16th, 2010 at 8:57 PM ^
We are now in our third year under coach Rodriguez and I have five questions for the stats lovers out there:
- From a spread offensive set are there teams that have success in inclement weather conditions?
I give you WVU with RR. BCS bowls and great teams. Also see: Boise, Utah, Oregon, OSU (circa Troy Smith).
- Are teams running spread offensive sets less likely to be able to hold a late game lead than teams running pro style offenses?
I think the least of our worries at this point is pissing away leads, but wouldn't that be more of a question posed to the defense? I find it hard for offenses to stop other offenses seeing they are not on the field at the same time.
- Is there any statistical evidence that team which primarily employ the spread offense with typically have a sub par defense?
Florida had some great defenses (top 5 nationally) while using the spread and maximizing total possessions. This is a myth and I wish it would die. You can have a great D and play a spread.
- Is there a statistically valid way to measure the production of NFL players between teams running pro set, and teams running primarily spread offense?
Who the fuck cares about the NFL? We are playing college football and need college players to win college games.
- Are teams running spread offensive sets more likely to have penalties on offense?
I don't know about this. Good question. Maybe you should look into it, but as of the State game, we were top 20 or so nationally in penalties per game. I think this has more to do with youth than it does scheme.
Also, please check the boxscore (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=302890130) Seems to me we put up great yards, both passing and rushing, on a pretty good defense. I think this offense can move the ball on any defense. We just need to stop turning the ball over.
October 16th, 2010 at 9:25 PM ^
I think the least of our worries at this point is pissing away leads, but wouldn't that be more of a question posed to the defense? I find it hard for offenses to stop other offenses seeing they are not on the field at the same time
I've never been a time of possession guy, but it is nice to be able to drive the ball down the field on the ground late in a close game. I'm not convinced that a spread offense can do that. (Perhaps it doesn't matter if your good enough to just drive for a touch down when you need it.)
Seems to me we put up great yards, both passing and rushing, on a pretty good defense. I think this offense can move the ball on any defense. We just need to stop turning the ball over.
I agree...in fact we have done that two weeks in a row. I wonder if the spartans under JLS or the boilermakers under Joe Tiller had similar "success" against their opponents? (This isn't an attempt to be smarmy....I really don't know the answer)
Relative to the whole topic of penalties / mistakes....it seems to me that there are two likely possible causes:
- We have a talented but young team trying to master a very complex offensive scheme
- The coaching staff is not up to the task of preparing this team to run this complex offense
October 16th, 2010 at 9:28 PM ^
Stop looking at stats so much. Watch the games and it's easy to see if a team is well coached. (Ours is not, Iowa is) Watch to see if a team is physically tough enough to control the trenches. (ours is not) We have very some very electric skill position players but to much time has been spent on recruiting only these type of players instead of the tough meat that is needed everywhere else. Believe what you see and stop trying to convince yourself that your eyes are fooling you.
October 16th, 2010 at 8:45 PM ^
As an older alumni it is very humiliating to see what has happened to our football program. I won't even mention the OSU-Michigan rivalry. How can schools like Michigan State, Iowa, and Wisconsin field stronger teams than we do? What used to be one of the premier programs in the country is now relegated to inferior status. Are Rodriguez and Robinson the answer? I don't think so based on what I've seen the past three years. I'm not a football expert, but there has to be an answer to our current dilema.
October 16th, 2010 at 8:56 PM ^
As a younger alumni, let me show you how to use the internets. The column to the right of your screen, or the link at the top right of your screen is the "MGoBoard," which is full of varied threads (discussion topics). You might want to post this in the thread called "OK I'm Done," where a fellow boardmember similarly overreacts to losing against a top 15 team.
I take it you meant to create a new post altogether, which, well...let's just say it's a good thing for you that you couldn't figure out how to do that.
Now, non-football-expert, please direct yourself to our roster and focus particularly on the column titled "Elib." (Eligibility, ie, how old our players are). Look at our starters. That should answer some of your questions.
It sucks, I know, but nut up, fellow wolverine. We'll see what happens at the end of the year.
October 16th, 2010 at 9:04 PM ^
I don't think I'm able to start a new thread...not enough points
October 16th, 2010 at 9:45 PM ^
Thank God.
October 16th, 2010 at 9:21 PM ^
stupid posts like this annoy me. I hate how some Michigan fans are starting to accept mediocrity. This is year 3 for RR and still we have the worst defense in college football. Why is everyone so willing to give RR a free pass even after 3 years? Everyone is so eager to point out what RR has done in the past, even I used to do that, but the truth is, he hasn't done anything while at the greatest university on the planet. And franlkly, that's all that matters. I would love to see RR succeed and for all this to be a matter of inexperience, but then again, this is year 3 and we shouldn't have these excuses anymore. so that tells me he screwed up in years 1&2.
October 16th, 2010 at 9:23 PM ^
Make them write "I will not get a penalty" 1000 times?
October 16th, 2010 at 9:23 PM ^
Computer nerds who only have experience blogging about football all seem to have a ton of points on this board. The people that seem to have actual experience with college football speak much more truth but get dinged with points so they can't start new threads. If this board wants to have a free exchange of intelligent ideas about football you should get rid of the point thing. Any idiot can just spout stupid rah rah crap to get + points. Now all you computer nerds get back to your dorm rooms so you can play with yourself. Yeah yeah ban those who speak the truth.
October 16th, 2010 at 9:34 PM ^
What the fuck are you talking about? Post something worthwhile and you get points. Don't and you might get negged. If someone has "actual experience" with college football (which mean what, BTW?) then their views would be very welcome here.
October 16th, 2010 at 9:45 PM ^
That's a beer you're coaching right now, not a football team.
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<br>I think it's a fair bet that at least half the "high point" people know more about football now than you ever will.
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<br>You don't get points to post because you don't actually contribute anything, knowledgeable or otherwise.
October 16th, 2010 at 9:41 PM ^
Let Barwis have fun
October 16th, 2010 at 9:55 PM ^
Our guys committed 3 more penalties than Iowa for 30 more yards. If you factor that yardage in we still outgained them by over 100 yards.
It isn't like we're talking about the Oakland Raiders here. Where did the OMG PENALTEEZ!!! meme get started?
October 16th, 2010 at 11:40 PM ^
Huh.
I was shocked -- SHOCKED! -- to see that our penalty yardage was incrementally higher than Iowa's, but I do find a large difference between, say, an illegal formation call (which is more due to coaches incorrectly correcting the play set) and a personal foul (which is an individual doing something stupid).
October 17th, 2010 at 12:42 PM ^
The rule I've always followed: If you get a personal foul penalty (not a facemask, but a late hit or taunting or unnecessary roughness), then you run 1 mile carrying a blocking dummy.