Another possible "red-lock" status (semi OT)
http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2017/05/michigan_state_de_demet…
Demetrius Cooper (DE) accused of violating his assault and battery bond conditions (consuming alcohol). Pretty big time player. Not a huge slip up, but a slip up.
Also his attorney previously said the bond condition would be easy to follow because "his client does not drink alcohol." Whoops!
Glasgow violated probation for an OWI when he tested postive on a Breathalyzer a couple months before the end of his probation. Not smart, but he isn't under the same microscope that Cooper is right now.
Cooper is currently being charged for a misdemeanor assault & battery for which he pleaded no contest. He is out on bond, hasn't even been sentenced yet, and violated his bond only one month out. Getting caught on social media adds a layer of stupid to it as well.
I get some of what you are saying though.
On top of that, it wasn't even a random test Glasgow failed. It was the morning after St. Paddy's day. Any drinking related probation requires you to blow the morning after major drinking holiday (New years, Super Bowl, etc). He slid in 5 mins before the cut off thinking he'd be sober. Just as stupid as Cooper.
I think Cooper should get a second chance, but I don't have a lot of faith in the folks in EL right now. Between Harbaugh and Grandma, Glasgow made his mistake a thing of the past and achieved great success. There doesn't seem to be that type of support under Dantonio these days.
He definitely didn't say that. He said that alcohol and violence issues happen at pretty much every college program, which is true. Cooper's is just particularly bad because he stupidly filimed himself and uploaded it to social media, and it's just another in a long line of issues for that football program.
He said people do dumb things everywhere. I said that they covered up two decades of sexual abuse and have four football players suspended/kicked off for sexual assaults in one season. It's not the same. You have a massive Baylor/PSU level scandal with Nassar and then four times as many football players arrested for sexual assaults than we've had in the past 5 years on top of it.
But we're talking about the Cooper incident. The Nassar and football sexual assault issues go way beyond "doing dumb things", bronxblue wasn't suggesting that that happens everywhere.
Yep, still not reading what I said correctly. But whatever, keep assuming I said whatever the hell you think I said.
I mean, at least read the statement before you freak out.
This is a reality of college sports at every school, and while the sexual assaults stuff definitely seems like an atypical issue endemic to MSU, stuff like alcohol abuse and fights happen everywhere.
And not to get pedantic but apparently you want to, massive sexual assault cover-ups have actually happened, quite recently, at two major schools beyond MSU. And while I certainly don't think it would happen at Michigan, I also never thought a college would cover up the sexual abuse of children for decades. If you think Michigan is somehow immunte to terrible things happening because people don't do their jobs, then fine, live in that dream world. I didn't say it has happened at Michigan or that it will, but I'm also cynical enough to know to never say never.
but it's never happened at Michigan. I was critical of the way that Michigan handled Gibbons but it wasn't a scandal. If we ever do the same things that they've done in EL, State College, or Waco then I'll be critical of Michigan. You're saying people can't be sanctimonous because Graham Glasgow drank when he wasn't supposed to. We HAVE been much better at discipline under Harbaugh than them and it's just the facts. Cole was kicked off for smoking weed. LTT was promptly kicked off for the filming incident. Austin Robertson was allowed to sign with them despite a sexual abuse incident at his high school.
And it had never happened at PSU or Baylor before they did either. And honestly, when was there a run of sexual assaults and possibler cover-ups at MSU before now?
People can be whatever they want, I just don't agree with this penchant for piling on a program for transgressions that happen everywhere. Hammer MSU for not properly handling some sexual assaults and, in the case of Nasser, allowing him to abuse athletes for years. Personally, I don't believe any school is immune to letting such an event to happen, but whatever, people have their own takes on that probability and that's fine.
Harbaugh has been around for 2 years. He's a good man, but he's not perfect nor a saint. Grant Perry is still on the team and he committed a (relatively minor) sexaul assault outside of a bar in East Lansing. Cole was given multiple opportunities to correct his behavior; by all accounts I've read, it was because he couldn't stay sober that he was let go. Letting Graham Glasgow back onto the team was a decision Harbaugh made, but one I totally understand people taking issue with. Glasgow got busted for operating a vehicle with a blood alcohol level nearly double the legal limit. He then violated his parole by blowing above the legal limit (I assume) the day after he drank, which most likely means he was even more drunk than that the night before. The optimist in me says Harbaugh looked as Glasgow as a guy with issues relating to alcohol but a supportive family and someone he thought deserved another chance; the cynic in me says Harbaugh looked at his depth chart and wasn't going to lose a guy who turned out to be an NFL prospect.
I'm fine with people having different opinions than me; telling me to shut the fuck up because they didn't read what I said and strike out at anyone who doesn't dogmatically believe a university and a coach is above reproach seems like the same mindset that allowed stuff to happen at Baylor, PSU, etc., but that isn't my bed to sleep in.
I'm cool with the sanctimony. Mork used to let football players basically run hog-wild - beating up hockey players, attempted murder on Denard, various other assault & battery things. They would get these fake punishments like being "suspended" for the duration of a jail term and then be welcomed back with open arms. The whole time, Dantonyo would cultivate this image of being a hard-nosed, disciplined, tough-loving father figure who Grew Boys Into Men and did everything The Right Way, and the sycophants in green lapped it up. At the same time, Rich Rodriguez was pouring heart and soul into this job and got nothing but derision, and more than his share from the greeny-weenies in East Lansing who were happy to buy the Freep narrative of a slave driver with no concern for rules or his players' well-being.
As long as those tables want to keep turning, exposing D'Antonio for what he really is and dumping a whole heap of steaming reality into the laps of the Sparties, I'm completely for it.
I am 100% behind the idea that Mark Dantonio is a hypocrite and that this narrative of him being a Leader of Men (tm) is a bullshit concoction by lazy media types. But every football coach has skeletons in his closet; Rich Rod got a bad rap, but he wasn't a saint, neither was Hoke, neither is Harbaugh. I just think that any school in America should pump the breaks on looking down their noses at transgressions, especially violent ones, at other schools, epsecially when you tried to recruit the same kids.
We live in a world where a Christian college covered up numerous sexual assaults and a prominent state school allowed a sexual predator to roam its campus for decades. I hope in all my being that Michigan would never allow stuff like that to occur unchecked, but I am not remotely naive enough to assume it couldn't happen. As for Cooper, Michigan has recruited guys who have hit women, gotten drunk and drove, broke probations, sexually assaulted women, everything. It's inevitable, and it's why I don't find much high ground laughing at a guy drinking a beer.
Much room for civil disagreement here, and I actually don't really disagree with any of the words in that post. I just don't see the schadenfreude here as a way of saying "this wouldn't happen to us." I can't speak for everyone, but as for myself, I'm happy to laugh at the preposterousness of some fool who's not allowed to drink, and whose lawyer declared he doesn't, posting a video of himself drinking - and at the fact that it's happening to that program. Myself, I just enjoy watching their self-satisfied sanctimony explode in their faces, and don't consider that a commentary on anything beyond that.
Yep, totally my first year as a fan of a college football team.
MSU should rightfully be chastised for the sexual assault issues they have on campus (though let's not forget Michigan had to deal with a couple of similar issues a couple years ago), because those are serious issues that show a lack of care and respect for the student body. And by all means, make fun of them for being terrible on the football field. But there are a bunch of people around here who are like "Michigan would never recruit thugs like this" and "haha, MSU is a shit hole with terrible people" that is just lazy fandom and the worst part of being a fan of the school.
My point is that taking a moral high ground related to the dumb shit college students do on campuses seems like a quick recipe for it blowing up in your face, but what do I know, I think the constant 3-9 jokes about MSU are pretty dumb considering Michigan had the exact same record not too long ago, and were 5-7 and getting run off the field by mediocre teams in the fourth year of a coach's tenure 3 season ago.
But hell, keep on being a fan the way you want. Not going to bother me.
I was commenting more on the timeline and how they got caught than the original violation. Like I said in my first post, Glasgow violated his probation almost a year after his arrest. Cooper barely made it month after his pretrial hearing. The social media part of it is what takes the cake though.
Glasgow was also pretty close to getting kicked off the team by Harbaugh. I think if there hadn't been a coaching change, it would have happened. Hoke was under a bigger microscope than Dantonio is now.
Cooper should be kicked off just for sheer stupidity. Filming yourself violating your probation and uploading it to social media? Sounds like a guy that wants to get caught.
I disagree. I don't think there's anyway in hell that Glasgow's grandma is going to agree to live with Cooper.
You know what, both of them did stupid things and Driving drunk puts innocent people in harms way. The thing is, I know plenty of really good people that have used terrible judgement and drove drunk. I can't think of 1 good dude I know of that has spit on another person, it's the kind of thing only a scumbag does.
Spit on a meter maid? I can forgive stupid, I will never understand hostility.
there's a big fucking difference. Noone drives drunk with the intent to do harm to others. Yes, people would rather get spit on then killed by a drunk driver, I would rather get spit on then fall down my stirs and break a bunch of bones also, what's your point? Spitting on someone who is just doing there job is a piece of shit thing to do, and he did it with intent to harm someone. Again, I have never met a good dude who acts that way.
This is starting to piss me off. If Dantonio gets to escape the new normal we are establishing and a few years of brutal asskickings because he's fired for off-field conducts I'll be very upset.
It's true that Michigan will have people do stupid shit, given how many players there are on the team and the age of the players. That's inherent in any program. In isolation it would be dopey to be mocking this situation.
HOWEVAH, MSU is in the midst of a shit storm arising from (A) the Larry Nassar scandal, (B) the Auston Robertson sexual assault and extradition story, (C) the John Reshke fiasco, (D) team mentor Curtis Blackwell being dismissed because of alleged mentoring of three players to not sweat a sexual assault, and (E) those three players being suspended and perhaps kicked off the team. OH, let's not forget (F) a Title IX investigation by an outside firm currently underway.
Now you have a guy out on bond for (G) spitting on an officer of the court, and (H) he gets himself back in the news yet again?
If the "Dean of Discipline" cannot explain to his players that this is not a good time to be doing especially stupid shit like posting pictures of yourself violating your bond conditions, then I cannot help but mock the shitty culture of his program.
That's fine. I'd only counter that not too long ago, Michigan was reeling from the concussion issues with Shane Morris against Minnesota, had kicked out Gibbons after heightened Title IX investigations led to him being expelled for sexual assault, Frank Clark was dismissed from the team for domestic violence, and Taylor Lewan would shortly thereafter get into a fight with an OSU fan on the street and plead to assault. Certainly not to the degree we're seeing at MSU, but that was a dark time period for Michigan. And Brady Hoke was a lot of things, but he never struck me as a guy who didn't try to instill discipline and honor in his players.
Again, people can mock away. But my opinion is that acting like this could never happen at Michigan seems like tempting fate.
If the "this" you're referencing is the isolated incident of Spittin' Demetrius Cooper's idiotic violation of bond conditions, then I agree 100%. As I opened, college students do stupid shit, and Michigan players have done and will do their fair share. We've got a WR who's fighting a misdemeanor sexual assault claim in E. Lansing right now that absolutely falls in that basket, and who knows what next week will bring. 85 players on scholarship, with 30+ more also playing leads to lots of opportunities for stupid.
But if the "this" you're referencing is building a culture where Nassar is shielded from sexual assault accusations for decades, where there is systemic collusion with the local PD and prosecutor to chronically "decide not to charge" the likes of Appling and Payne, where the HFC holds himself out as the "Dean of Discipline", where the HFC prattles on about how he brings in high character kids ("character over stars!"), and everything else I listed above? I suppose it could happen in Ann Arbor.
Two things, though, make that seem unlikely:
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First, it seems unlikely that we will have those systemic problems at Michigan in the near future. Nobody self-flagellates quite like Michigan, and our activist community doesn't cotton much to rapists, even if they win football games. New punchline for the old joke "What do Michigan State students have in common with Michigan students?": They won't STFU about Brendan Gibbons and Taylor Lewan. (I cherish this about our community, BTW. We hold ourselves out as a school and fanbase that ascribes to a higher standard, and flagellating assholes like Gibbons and Lewan is part of that.)
In fact, in most of the examples you cite above, Michigan was proactive in dealing with the problem. Gibbons is a complicated case because his case came under a second standard of review because Title IX guidelines were revised during the pendency of his case. And he was thrown out of school. The only thing Michigan did wrong there was Brady Hoke bumblefucking his way through trying to explain Gibbons's absence from the team. Clark was dismissed immediately, and Lewan was promptly charged. (Hoke and Brandon similarly bumblefucked their way through the Morris concussion issues.) NONE of that speaks to a culture of covering up Michigan athletes misdeeds in the name of putting out competetive sports teams.
- Second, if we did unravel a systemic culture like we're seeing at MSU, it seems much less likely that we would defend the fort like MSU did. And the Washtenaw County Prosecutor's Office has not come close to colluding with UofM athletics to "shelter" Michigan from bad press or to keep players on the field. Not just Mackie, but the entire culture of Ann Arbor leans against ignoring victims to put Ws in the record books.
Finally, I don't really believe in "tempting fate". Things will happen in the future, but it sure AF is not because we mocked MSU, and its coach in particular, for being a hypocritical douchebag. If a fanbase is going to hold Dantonio out as the "Dean of Discipline", then I feel comfortable giving the Nelson "Ha Ha" when shit like this happens.
I was referring to the reality that a lot of people are acting like Michigan is immune to terrible things being perpetuated by a combination of indifference, ignorance, and fear. Larry Nasser happened because A BUNCH of people didn't say or do anything, not just as MSU but also in the USA Olympic community. Read the stories about Nasser and the common thread is gymnasts were worried about saying anything because he was a prominent member in the community and he was, like all predators, very good at hiding his actions.
Frank Clark was kicked out of the school once his domestic assault charge was levied; MSU did the same thing with Robertson. And don't tell me the old "Robertson had a previous run-in with the law" line, because Frank Clark had already gotten busted for burglary and he was kept on because, let's be honest, he's good at football and when you are, you'll get another chance.
And listen, I think UM handled the Gibbons situation reasonably well, but they only did so once the government passed new mandates requiring another investigation. They didn't cover anything up, but they also didn't proactively try to dig into the claim until their hand was forced. The AAPD investigated and decided to not press charges despite some evidence that could absolutely be interpretted as justifying charges being levied. Does that mean they helped cover it up, or is that just how police work goes? I don't know what happened with Appling and Payne and the local DA; no charges were filled, but I think people believe far too quickly the myth that law enforcement can be pressured by the local school to drop serious charges. Do you have some evidence that Payne and Appling got off scott free? Does it happen in a very small percentage of times? Sure. But a lot of time, the reason charges aren't brought is because the evidence isn't there, witnesses won't talk, and that pesky "Innocent until proven guilty" line people trot out where their guy is being investigated applies to guys on teams you don't root for.
As for the sexual assault situation at MSU, I think they're doing what they can and reacted promptly. They suspended the assistant coach, suspended the accused guys, and are protecting their identities while the legal system progresses. If Michigan was in this situation, I'd hope they'd respond in the same way. There might be a systemic issue cover-up, or it could be that a couple of bad guys did a terrible thing and there isn't some grand conspiracy behind it. You can believe one thing and I can believe the other. I honestly don't care.
And I think Dantonio is a total asshole, a hypocrite who cares about winning football games above all else and because he glowers at reporters and won a bunch, they assume he's a tough, moral guy. It's all a facade. But other than letting Glenn Winston back onto the team, Dantonio largely handled his team well until recently. Delton Williams was rightly suspended for a year and had to pay his way to stay at the school. Michigan coaches have done similar punishments, and expecting more than that is dreaming IMO.
You don't need to convince me that MSU should be mocked; I'm all there. But I'll mock them for their terrible performance on the field, the asshole coach they have and his antics, and the fact they can't close on 2* RBs. But I'm not going to gloat because I think my school is morally or intellectually superior to them because some terrible things are happening there now. Your mileage may vary.
This twisting of facts to white knight for MSU astounds me. Gibbons was not expelled for sexual assault (that's a crime, not a charge UM can make) but for vioating student conduct codes. The alleged concussion issues are totally irrelevant and not even a white knighting effort is strengthened by foolishly trying to draw them into the dicussion.
You cannot simply equate some UM issues into "= MSU issues." It doesn't work like that. It never works like that. Even you admit it doesn't work like that, eyt you mention it anyway.
My advice: stop digging.
I think Michigan has a consistent low tolerance for bullshit which is essential for quality control...something the Red Cedar River water drinkers haven't done apparently
is out of control, the type of characters on the team, or both. This dumb ass move occurred on April 21, just a few weeks ago, while team waits for the hammer to come down. Lots of examples of players not responding to Dantonio's efforts to right the ship. I still say Dantonio is in real trouble and may have to go if these things continue to pile up.