November 24th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ^

27-13 over 12-1 Wisconsin in 2006?

Seasons in the last 50 in which Michigan failed to beat a team that finished top-20 in Massey:

  • 2013 (so far)
  • 2012
  • 2011
  • 2010
  • 2009
  • 2008
  • 2000 (didn't play any)
  • 1990 (two one-point losses though)
  • 1982
  • 1979
  • 1971 (undefeated regular season)
  • 1968
  • 1967
  • 1966

See a pattern here? Bo arrives, Carr retires.


November 24th, 2013 at 11:29 AM ^

Seeing this, I am wondering about the average ranking of the Big Ten versus the average ranking of the teams that we beat in the Big Ten on a year-over-year basis. It would be interesting to see if it followed essentially the trend which this list seems to indicate. 


November 24th, 2013 at 4:53 PM ^

Record against (all ratings end-of-season):

Massey top ten:

  • Schembechler 5-19-1
  • Moeller 4-8-1
  • Carr 12-14
  • Rodriguez 0-6
  • Hoke 0-3

Massey 11-25:

  • Schembechler 33-14
  • Moeller 6-3-1
  • Carr 15-11
  • Rodriguez 1-4 (#23 Notre Dame '10)
  • Hoke 1-4 (#21 Northwestern '12)

Massey 26-50:

  • Schembechler 53-12-4
  • Moeller 15-2-1
  • Carr 36-11
  • Rodriguez 3-5 (#48 Illinois '10, #50 Wisconsin '08, #50 Notre Dame '09)
  • Hoke 7-3

These last three years maybe haven't been that great but at least there have been six wins over top-40 teams after just one in the three years prior.

I'd never looked at this particular stat before but it's unreal:

Lloyd Carr was 12-14 against top ten teams.

Rich Rodriguez was 11-13 against teams outside the top 50.


November 24th, 2013 at 11:04 AM ^

Needs a new Bo. The program started its dive that August afternoon known as the Horror. The current coaching staff loves Michigan like Bo did but clearly lack the ability to coach the team up. I think we are still in transition, but there are no more excuses, next season is going to determine whether hoke is that coach, if we don't show improvement in the trenches then we will probably be looking for another coach. Not one player has improved during the course of this season. We are not in the same breath has Ohio state anymore and honestly we are approaching that with MSU. I will be there next week cheering my ass off for the kids, but this coaching staff has lost 'several games' over the past 3 seasons.


November 24th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ^

Not that it really matters, but Ryan made it all the way back. I think Beyer is better too. MAYBE Raymon Taylor. Perhaps Ross III. On offense, Gallon had some drops but still stepped up to fill the "21" number. Maybe Glasgow at Center. But that's 6 out of 22, which is about Hoke's winning % in meaningful games. 


November 24th, 2013 at 11:55 AM ^

Frank Clark may not have lived up to some of the preseason hype but he's certainly come on as the year has gone on.  Henry certainly is having more of an impact as well recently.

OL, QB and RB are the three areas where we haven't seen enough progress.  I think most other areas of the team have gotten better.



November 24th, 2013 at 12:18 PM ^

Green looks a lot better now than he did at the beginning of the season--he's churning his way through tackles that were bringing him down earlier and one yard is turning into four.

There's probably improvement we don't get to see, too. Is Shane Morris getting better? De'veon Smith? How would we know? A. J. Williams has learned how to move into the open area of the end zone when his QB is on the run--who knew? That's not something he ever got to do when he was playing LT in high school.

I think maybe people forget that other teams' players are getting better during the season too. Except for the fifth-year seniors that have probably plateaued I have trouble thinking of anyone that hasn't shown some improvement, except at QB. Even the linemen are probably improving a bit, if you hold your nose and look at it dispassionately--the problem is that they shouldn't be on the field at all yet. (Who noticed how much Navarre was improving during his freshman year?)

Mitch Cumstein

November 24th, 2013 at 12:07 PM ^

I think recruiting and player development on the defensive side of the ball has been completely acceptable.   A lot of people here will say "yeah b/c Mattison...", but Mattison is on Hoke's staff.  As is Borges.  You have to take the good with the bad.  

I think we need changes on the offensive side of the ball, but to completely disregard the improvements and successes on defense since 2010 is unfair.


November 24th, 2013 at 11:10 AM ^

The only reason Hoke's avoided too much criticism till now is how bad RR was in B1G (6-18) and in these games (1-13). 

But it'll be 4-9 soon enough, even with a moral victory next weekend. Hardly worth $85 per ticket to see Akron, not counting PSL.

Brandon knows business. He should figure out that 7-6 seasons, and 30% winning % vs. B1G powers doesn't sell. 

We can only hope the new President is a sports fan, doesn't get sloshed for halftime speeches, and is known for firing people. 

p.s. and the new Prez doesn't allow AD's to waste money from PSLs on sky-painting GO BLUE.


November 24th, 2013 at 11:19 AM ^

RichRod's main struggles were against Sparty, Wisconsin, PSU and OSU.  Those are the four most successful programs in the B1G the past 5-10 years.

Lloyd hasn't faced Wisconsin in three years, and this year was the first year we've played PSU (Loss).  Our B1G schedule has been easier the past three years.  We should be better in conference.  

Swapping out Wisconsin and Penn State in 2009 and 2010 probably makes us bowl eligible in the former year and an 8-9 win team in the latter year.


November 24th, 2013 at 12:11 PM ^

The RR revisionism is tiresome.  He pretty much struggled against everybody, not just a couple of teams.  The few Big Ten wins he had were mostly miraculous while the losses were often ass-kickings.  He went 1-2 against Purdue, 1-2 against Illinois and 0-1 against Northwestern.  He did manage to go 2-0 against Indiana, though both required last-minute heroics.

And we are much better in conference under Hoke - even with this year's disappointment, he's 15-8 vs. RR's 6-18.   

It's worth noting as well that under Hoke, almost all of our losses have been tight games where we had a chance in the 4th quarter.  This year we've been in 10 of 11 games in the fourth quarter.  Last year we were in every game but Bama (or maybe Nebraska - I believe it was 16-9 after 3, but I may be wrong).  When you lose a lot of close games, that may suggest some tactical problems but it does, at least, suggest that the team is playing hard for the coach and believes in him.  Hoke can connect with his players.  He's recruited well, he's lost very few to attrition, and there's not much doubt that they play hard for him.

This season is reminding me more of 2005 than any of the RR years.  As then, we haven't had the offense to put teams away, and our D, while decent overall, hasn't been able to make key stops.  I think some changes need to be made but they don't have to be wholesale.  Hoke himself should be safe, but some of his assistants should probably move on.  (After 2005, Carr replaced both coordinators, incidentally.)


November 24th, 2013 at 1:18 PM ^

This really has brought a new perspective to me... If 2013 = 2005, I will definitely take the 2014 = 2006... You are right, Hoke doesn't need to go, I just wish he'd go to an offense like LSU where they pound the rock, yet still utilize some spread/option elements...

I dumped the Dope

November 24th, 2013 at 3:13 PM ^

I guess I've tried to say that in other posts but this sums it up well.  We are actually "in" every game, even MSU up to a point.  Some breaks let us win, some breaks let us lose.  Up the average skillset & development of the players just a bit and we don't need so many breaks.


Young John Beilein

November 24th, 2013 at 11:36 AM ^

He will be a senior next year, and there will be plenty to gain.  Teams can have a remarkable turnaround in one year, good or bad.  The seniors for next year will need to set a standard for the younger players in the program.  I feel bad for QWash.  I think he's worked really hard to improve and has overcome some things personally.  I feel like he has played well when he's played, but hasn't played enough.  


November 24th, 2013 at 11:16 AM ^

by the fact that these are against teams in the BIG. No team in the BIG is a worldbeater by any stretch of the imagination, so we really should be doing better to be honest.