October 18th, 2017 at 8:07 PM ^

Interesting, I can see myself watching it with my boyfriend at the time and it feels like it was a night game in my memory.

But I also remember seeing the flash mob on Bollinger's lawn afterwards, although I did not particpate. That's the first time I remeber the "it's great to be a Michigan Wolverine" chant. Was that it's origin or did it exist prior to that and I just don't recollect it?

Everyone Murders

October 18th, 2017 at 3:50 PM ^

Did you know that Joe Paterno was on notice that Jerry Sandusky was a child molestor from the inception of that series until the day Joe Paterno died?  Yet Joe Paterno kept that under wraps to protect his football program?



Thread Jack

October 18th, 2017 at 10:50 PM ^

To use the term "kerfuffle," even in quotes, is douchebaggery at its worst.  It was evil, pure and simple.  An evil man took, used, hurt, and damaged children for his own twisted, perverted satisfaction.  And then other people committed evil by protecting him to protect themselves, their program, and their legacy. 

Evil actions by selfish, evil people.  Not "kerfuffle."

Where's the East German Judge?


October 19th, 2017 at 10:07 AM ^

It was a ridiculously wrong word choice on my part.  Believe me, I don't think this un-seriously.

I wouldn't have used that word if I was conversing with someone not making what, IMO, was a very dumb comment ("very little justice for the victims" --- many people have been convicted!). 

But, that's no excuse for me.  I was wrong.

I usually ignore the "F*** Penn State" crowd here who STILL wants PSU burned to the ground, but in this case I slipped and went into the mud myself.

I'll leave it at that.

Thread Jack

October 19th, 2017 at 10:29 AM ^

... for responding in humility and understanding.  In re-reading, especially in context of your response, I recognize that I could have been less hysterical in tone.  Content yes, strong admonition, yes, but calling for East German Judge, "douchebaggery," etc. ... not so much.  

I will also leave it at this.  

Everyone Murders

October 19th, 2017 at 8:01 AM ^

First off, "kerfuffle" is (as observed above) an odd word choice for the forcible rape of at risk boys over the course of decades.  Let that sink in.  Joe Paterno and his administration let children be raped over the course of years.  To be extra clear, that means forcibly anally raped by a man over six feet tall and with the implicit protection and facilities support of the entire Penn State UniversityOver the course of decades.  I suppose you refer to Pol Pot's atrocities as "that big 'to-do'"?  Kerfuffle?  That is emblematic of the problem.

Second, the comment you're responding to suggested the death penalty would have been appropriate.  That sentiment comes from both the conclusions of the Freeh Report and from the fact that Penn State fans refer to the forcible anal rape of at-risk boys by a man first employed by and later supported by Penn State for decades as something they are recovering from, and try to sweep it under the rug.  The death penalty is designed to make programs take their misdeeds sufficiently seriously.  It's tough to square a position that Penn State now gets it when they showed a film lionizing rape-abbetor Joe Paterno at last year's Temple game.   

Third, it has been reported that the football staff had for decades been making "creepy uncle" jokes about Sandusky for years.  Greg Schiano comes to mind.  And the Paterno family continues to be in denial mode.  (To help you understand, put yourself in the shoes of a victim of genocide, and then having the same institution that committed the genocide deny it and celebrate its patriarch just a couple years after the whole atrocity went public.  If you don't understand why that's a problem, and why it's analogous here, I can't help you.)  None of these enablers have seen a speck of justice other than loss of reputation of the Paternos - to which they cop a "victim" pose.

Fourth, buy a fucking thesaurus. "Kerfuffle"?  For fuck's sake, man.  That's perhaps the most tone-deaf comment I've seen on this board. 


October 19th, 2017 at 9:25 AM ^

was an awful word choice, there is no question.  Very tone deaf and dismissive.  However, I think that a lot of people on this blog and elsewhere do a few things that are unfair. 

1) They treat all Penn State fans alike.  They are not.  I know a few of them and the ones that I know had a very similar sentiment about the Paterno tribute that you do. 

2) They use hyperbole in their description of the Penn State fans that do still remember certain Paterno times fondly.  It is possible for a fan to remember a season or a team in a good light while still understanding that their understanding of said season at the time was incomplete and is now forever tainted.  That does not make them "supporters of child rape" and to claim it does is ridiculous.  If it came out that this very thing had transpired at Michigan, the Woodson interception in 1997 would still be cool to me.  I would still remember the Orange Bowl in 2000 fondly.  That says nothing about my character or my feelings as to child sexual abuse. 

3) They will not allow their feelings about the travesty that went on there to be seperated from their feelings toward the current Penn State football team.  They allow what happened there to insidiously become a part of their perception of the current Penn State team, and attach to it a certain kind of demonizing hate that is not warranted in the circumstances.

What happened at Penn State was one of the worst things that I have ever heard, but Saquan Barkley, Trace McSorly, and James Franklin had nothing to do with it.  I think beating this thing to death every year is becomming a bit tiresome.

Everyone Murders

October 19th, 2017 at 9:34 AM ^

I have voiced my sympathy for Penn State alums, faculty, students, and fans caught up in this who (i) had no part in the atrocities and (ii) are not JoePalogists (TM) who want to pretend that Joe Paterno is a misunderstood person.  I've got no quarrel with them.  And people are wrong to lump all Penn State faculty, students, alums, and fans into the same bucket.

However, I've got a big problem for the university itself when they show a long video tribute to Joe Paterno at the 2016 Temple game.  I've got a big problem with the Paternos - who act like the Freeh Report and the testimony of Mike McQueary (that plainly demonstrates that Joe Paterno was on notice of Sandusky raping kids) are fallacious.  I've got a big problem with fans who act like Penn State's sudden firing of Sandusky (cough, cough "retirement") when he had previously been pegged as Paterno's successor doesn't raise red flags.

The point of "beating it to death" is to underscore the seriousness of it all.  There will be a lot less "beating it to death" once people stop being JoePalogists, and once they stop dismissing the forcible rape of boys by Sandusky as a "kerfuffle". 

In my mind, their brand is "Abetted Child Rape U" until they proactively decide and demonstrate it isn't.  That means no longer embracing Joe Paterno as a hero, and not trying to minimize the horror that dozens of boys suffered (and continue to suffer) under his and the school's watch.

And using a word like "kerfuffle" to describe that hell-scape?  Well, you're practically begging for a graphic reminder of what the whole "kerfuffle" is about.

Thread Jack

October 19th, 2017 at 9:33 AM ^

your observation that kerfuffle was a hapless word choice, so I am not taking this out of context.

My and Everybody Murders posts were not out of thin air to air our own grievances or stir people up:  they were directed at this particular fan's particular post.  Not just tone deaf, but smacks of delusion.  What drives me personally nuts is the lack of ownership that the atrocities were not simply things that happened (a.k.a a natural disaster that needs to be overcome):  they were evil acts, committed by men knowingly and on purpose.  Applying the term "kerfuffle" is not simply understatement -- it is total mischaracterization, likening it to a disagreement by two sides.


October 19th, 2017 at 9:36 AM ^

I was on the Big Ten Alaska Cruise this past summer and Christine Brennan was the Northwestern dignitary.  I talked with her for quite a while about Penn State and her view is that if the situation happened at Northwestern, the school would have disbanded the football program immediately and without hesitation.  She thought the entire situation was dispicable and that the culture was beyond repair.  When I told her that Jay Paterno had been elected to the PSU Board of Trustees, she didn't see any hope for them moving past this.


October 18th, 2017 at 6:05 PM ^

The 97 game was the most important.  Going into it everyone was thinking it was a toss-up and that it would tell us where we were at.  I remember thinking at the half that this really was a championship team.  The defense reminded me of the 85 Bears defense in that they were simply not even giving up first downs.  It was just one three and out series after another. An amazing team and an amazing season.  

Couzen Rick's

October 18th, 2017 at 9:16 PM ^

I know UM fans are very conservative when it comes to who Michigan's rivals are, but this is one of those "unofficial" rivalries in my opinion. Outside of the main two, and the occasional ND, there isn't a team I want to beat more than PSU.