2009 Redshirts

Submitted by varney_go_blue on December 10th, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Does anyone know who got redshirted this season from our freshman class? I know we signed 21 with Adrian Witty being 22 if he had "qualified".

There are only five true freshman that got significant p.t. last year and I know they won't get redshirts:

---- Tate Forcier
---- Denard Robinson
---- Vincent Smith
---- Will Campbell
---- Craig Roh

I don't knwow what the NCAA's rule is regarding redshirts but is it possible that we will have 16... Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Comments

jg2112

December 10th, 2009 at 12:50 PM ^

Welcome to the Board. It's too bad you made your entry on a factually incorrect note.

Vlad played, at the very least, in the second half of the Delaware State game. I recall one play where he was cracked back by a WR - this was seen in the video evidence as to why "Will Campbell isn't good enough quick enough" in the game recap.

That was game #6. So, no redshirt.

mejunglechop

December 10th, 2009 at 1:09 PM ^

However, NCAA rules are quite clear on the use of redshirt status: any participation in any competition counts as a season of eligibility. For example, even a single play in a football game counts as participation for an entire season, so coaches cannot play redshirt players at the end of a game simply to get them some experience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_(college_sports)

You can get a medical redshirt if you've played in less than a certain number of games, but that's a different deal.

me

December 10th, 2009 at 1:42 PM ^

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=420

You should know that NCAA rules indicate that any competition, regardless of time, during a season counts as one of your seasons of competition in that sport. It does not matter how long you were involved in a particular competition (for example, one play in a football game, one point in a volleyball match); you will be charged with one season of competition.

tpilews

December 10th, 2009 at 1:39 PM ^

"If a qualified incoming student-athlete is "redshirted" his or her freshman year (i.e., practices but does not compete),"

so, yeah, he competed = no redshirt. Unless, he was injured and medically can be proven to be incapable of playing for 9 games.

jg2112

December 10th, 2009 at 1:54 PM ^

Again, the University of Michigan has self-reported (which we know they don't always do) that Vladimir Emilien played in 5 games in the 2009 season.

5/12 = 41.66667%

41.66667 > 20%.

Don't copy the NCAA bylaws as your response because I know the operating rules. And please, Emilien doesn't know whether he's redshirting or not. He played more than one play so he can't get the automatic redshirt. And, he played in five games so he can't get a medical redshirt.

So, tell me again how he is going to redshirt when the rules clearly state he won't.

me

December 10th, 2009 at 1:57 PM ^

First, of all ignoring the fact that the rule you keep citing is for those players injured, he competed in more than 20%

20% of 12 games = 2.4, let's round up to 3

Vlad played in 5 games. 5 > 3

Even if we believe you that the DSU game was a "Scrimmage," then Vlad played in 4 games. 4 > 3.

So please explain how he clearly did not play in 20% of the games?

mtxgoblue

December 10th, 2009 at 1:54 PM ^

Doesn't this:

"The injury must occur during the first half of the season and the student-athlete, in Divisions I and II, must not have participated in more than two contests or 20% of the school's completed contests, whichever is greater."

clearly state that this 20% rule only applies for a MEDICAL redshirt?

jg2112

December 10th, 2009 at 2:33 PM ^

Now your argument has completely gone off the rails.

It doesn't matter what you or I think of the safety play.

ACCORDING TO THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN'S RECORDS VLADIMIR EMILIEN PLAYED IN 5 GAMES THIS YEAR.

Again, there is no way you can get out from under this fact.

So, WITH THIS FACT BEFORE YOU, how is he redshirting?

Magnus

December 10th, 2009 at 12:29 PM ^

Anthony Lalota
Fitzgerald Toussaint
Cameron Gordon
Michael Schofield
Quinton Washington
Taylor Lewan
Isaiah Bell
Mike Jones (I think)
Justin Turner
Jeremy Gallon
Thomas Gordon
Brendan Gibbons

jg2112

December 10th, 2009 at 12:44 PM ^

I would expect Lewan would play a tackle position.

As of the start of fall practice, Lewan was 6'7", 268 pounds.

LT Mark Ortmann was 6'7", 284 pounds.
RT Mark Huyge was 6'6", 288 pounds.
RT Perry Dorrestein was 6'8", 306 and was a revolving door for DEs.

So, the question would be - can Lewan gain 15 pounds of muscle between August 2009 and August 2010?

If he can, he's Ortmann's size, and if his technique is right he would probably be big enough to start.

spacemanspiff231

December 10th, 2009 at 1:56 PM ^

Lewan is very well sized for a tackle. He needs to add weight of course, as he was just a freshman last year without any conditioning before he came in during the fall, but his frame and height are such that that shouldn't be a problem in the future. It definitely was a contributing factor to him not playing, but even if he had had the weight necessary when he came in last fall, he was a very VERY raw player. Lewan had only played on the offensive line his senior season. Before that, his coach had played him at DE where he wasn't very good. Lewan need a TON of work on his technique this past year, but from what I've read on practices, he's progressing fairly well. However, I don't think we'll see him starting just yet. He might see playing time next year but he's not going to start. I'd wait until his redshirt sophomore season before looking for him to start.

Maize and Blue…

December 10th, 2009 at 3:13 PM ^

but Lewan and Roh had extremely good coaching in HS. That is how he managed to become so highly rated despite it being his first year playing OLine. Lewan also spent time practicing with the 1s this year and it would not be surprising if he is starting next year. Technique wasn't his problem it was the lack of size. There are no 260lb OLineman starting in FBS football that I can recall.

Trebor

December 10th, 2009 at 4:15 PM ^

Navy's starting tackles are actually both about 260. Judging as best as I can glean from various websites, their starting OL from left to right runs 260-264-286-266-260.

Then again, we run an entirely different offensive blocking scheme, and Lewan would get mauled playing LT at 260 regardless of how good his technique is.

BleedingBlue

December 10th, 2009 at 4:21 PM ^

Lewan played defense until his senior year in high school. That's why he was so under-the-radar as an offensive line recruit. Also, that is why he needs a ton of technique work, because he only played the position for his senior year.

"In his junior year, Taylor Lewan was a little-known defensive end prospect from Cactus Shadows High School in Scottsdale, Arizona. A transfer to Chaparral High School (a more successful program) and a move to the offensive tackle position (at which he is a better physical fit) gave Lewan a new lease on football life."

http://www.umvarsityblue.com/personnel-hq/2009-commits/taylor-lewan/

rugbypike11

December 10th, 2009 at 1:17 PM ^

IIRC, he only showed up on the player participation chart for two early games but then stayed on the bench for the rest of the season.

I haven't looked at all of the official depth charts, but Mike Jones was behind Stevie Brown and Floyd Simmons at SLB for the Ohio State game. With Brown graduating, we obviously have a need for a new starting SLB. It will be interesting to see what happens with Jones. He'll have a full season of practice under his belt at SLB, but he's also a candidate to add weight and move inside. If the defense stays the same, Mike Jones at 220+ probably isn't going to be very competitive at SLB unless we're willing to put in a true nickel package or sub in a coverage player at SLB in passing situations.

rugbypike11

December 10th, 2009 at 1:31 PM ^

I thought I remembered seeing something that had Mike Jones at 2 games played. I can't remember where I read it, but I thought at one point I read an article about the redshirt freshmen. In that article, there was speculation that Mike Jones might get back his redshirt. It's possible that I have completely imagined the possible Mike Jones redshirt. According to your link, I'm obviously WAY off about the number of games Jones played.

jg2112

December 10th, 2009 at 1:39 PM ^

No biggie. Before the Justin Feagin at Purdue thing in 2008, burning a redshirt was never anything I ever comprehended.

And frankly, the last thing I'm doing during kickoff and punt coverage is trying to figure out who is out there burning their redshirts. I'm normally refilling my salsa bowl.

Magnum P.I.

December 10th, 2009 at 5:10 PM ^

Not to be mean--I realize he's a real person with feelings--but I chuckle whenever I hear Floyd Simmons mentioned. My friend and I joke about him being the imaginary U-M player. I think it started with the announcers misattributing Cissoko's interception against WMU to him. I don't remember his recruitment. I've never actually noticed him on the field, but he's always vaguely on the depth chart for some depleted position group or being mentioned as an aside in postings. "Oh yeah, we'll just plug Floyd Simmons in there." He's taking on Art Vandelay proportions for me. Or Tacopants.

BlueTimesTwo

December 10th, 2009 at 4:46 PM ^

Thanks for the list Magnus. This was another tough year to watch but, when you add those players to the returning talent next year, there is a lot to be excited about. I was debating as to who I would be most excited to see, when I realized that I am excited about just about everybody on that list. I think that Turner (position of need) as well as Gallon and Toussaint (explosiveness) probably top my list, but the rest should make a big impact going forward.