11 Warriors: Sympathy For The Devil

Submitted by MGoStrength on February 20th, 2018 at 12:26 PM

A sobering perspective on how far UM football has fallen in the rivalry (and national relevance).  It's been so long since we've had any success in this game, at least in the win column.  There have been some good games and some bad.  There has been bad luck and injuries.  But, the consistent factor is being on the losing side of the win/loss column.  


Even though we're a little frustrated with the last season, the finish to the 2018 class, and some questional assistant hires or lack of fires, this article illuminated for me that coaching consistency is the best thing for us.  We probably aren't getting any better coach than JH, and although we want it quicker than we're getting it, keeping him around for as long as he wants to be around seems like what's best for UM.  We all knew last year was a rebuilding year and I get the feeling that a good 2018 on the field with a few key wins will give the program the energy it needs to regain it's recruiting momentum and take us into the future with a better shot in this rivalry than we've had in quite some time, even if it doesn't return to what it was in the 90s.




February 20th, 2018 at 12:58 PM ^

Exactly. I get it, and it sucks that it has been so one-sided for a while, but this isn't out of the ordinary. I'm 37 and grew up watching Michigan football on Saturdays my whole life. Starting with my earliest memories, all the way until I started college, I only saw Michigan lose a few times to OSU. The only thing I knew was beating them every single year, no matter where they were ranked.

I didn't feel the least bit of sympathy for them at that time, especially with the amount of pure hatred they had for everything Michigan because they couldn't win.


February 20th, 2018 at 3:22 PM ^

I think what naturally happens to a fanbase is that as you age, you get more perspective so, as you noted, you remember when Michigan ran roughshod over OSU.  Hell, I'm basically your same age and there was an era where MSU put up more of a fight each year than OSU, and both were pretty mediocre in the rivalry games.



March 18th, 2018 at 12:03 PM ^

Yes, Michigan beat the tar out of the Buckeyes in the 90's--but aside from '97, Michigan usually stumbled into that game battered and beaten three or four times. UM was little more than Spoiler to OSU's undefeated teams, and usually went off to some second-tier bowl game no one cared about.

The fact they are beating Michigan AND competing for championships is a double gut-punch.


February 20th, 2018 at 12:53 PM ^

I think that was OP's point. Not one anyone cares to hear apparently.

In regards to the actual article, they are clearly overvaluing one season, as a lot of people do here. You only have to go back one year where we were at least OSU's equal. And looking at this upcoming season, it seems like  last year was just the blip, as was expected, due to bridging Hoke classes with Harbaugh-only classes (also O'Korn being horrible).

The Fan in Fargo

February 20th, 2018 at 1:38 PM ^

Close to half of the games in this stretch should've been Michigan's. Either choking or being screwed over by bias, Michigan hasn't been able to pull them out. With exception to the Rich Rod years there have been many times where Michigan had the better team, were playing better football at that time or just played better that day. This little run of theirs isn't as lopsided as they want to make it. That's exactly what they trying to make it seem like. They soon will all perish into hell.



February 21st, 2018 at 10:05 AM ^

You mean like Wormley stopping JT short?  I am 47 and that was the single worst play in the worst loss for program momentum of my life.  It has been brutally downhill since.  Now we stare at an 8 game losing streak of meaningful games and recruiting malaise.  

2018 is red-line critical. 


February 20th, 2018 at 1:57 PM ^

You (and by you I mean every OSU fan I encounter here in Cleveland) really dont anymore.  When I run my M flag up my flagpole in my front yard nobody honks or flips me off anymore or yells "Michigan sucks".

When I wear my Michigan sweatshirt to the gym I get a lot of small smiles and head shakes, kinda of like what I would do if I saw a crazy person, but no comments.

My M alumni licence plate frame no longer draws any comments on the road.

Nobody in my office says a word to me about football anymore.

You've moved past hate.  You cant hate something you dont fear and there's no fear of us anymore. 

And I hate it.


February 20th, 2018 at 3:04 PM ^

See, I'm from Pittsburgh so I genuinely pity Shark's poor pathetic Browns fandom as much as MGrowOld perceives I pity his Michigan fandom. I don't have any hatred or fear of the Browns ever. However, I am terrified of losing to Michigan, even if ongoing results make that fear totally irrational. That's how you know it's hatred. 


February 20th, 2018 at 3:28 PM ^

Agree with you. I still hate Michigan as much as ever. The 90's are a wound that will never really heal, so I cherish every failure Michigan has in any sport. This doesn't mean I don't respect Michigan as a rival, because I will always respect Michigan in a way that I can never respect Penn State. But that honestly fuels the hate even more, cause I can never hate Penn State the way I hate Michigan. 


February 20th, 2018 at 2:51 PM ^

Oh, they STILL hate us!

It's just that many have taken to trying to discredit the '97 NC AP vote, out of boredom! They're YUGE Scott Frost fans! ;-)

fyi, IF you are bored enough to try to engage them, link a clip of the Neb-Mizzou "Flea Kicker", which, for the young, was an illegal TD that kept Neb undefeated in '97.

It won't shut them up (the only thing that EVER has was our record vs them in the Cooper era) - but it will make YOU feel better!


February 20th, 2018 at 12:48 PM ^

Unfortunately, the piece, which is decently written, does have a degree of truth to it and it is not propoganda.  Year after year, game after game, with one relatively recent exception, we have come up on the short side of the stick.  

This program needs to get back to its winning ways.  We have been very lucky that our fan base has been loyal other than in Hoke's last year, but lots of programs are seeing drops in attendance and that can happen here too.

Football is not basketball WD.



February 20th, 2018 at 12:57 PM ^

I knew recruiting was bad this year but I didnt realize just how bad it turned our until i looked at our OSU recruit guest list and saw where our uncommitted visitors to the game ended up.

More of our recruits to that game ended up committing to Ohio State than Michigan.  That's pretty damn bad.


February 20th, 2018 at 1:56 PM ^

Maybe i don't understand the formula right, but if you divide the Total Score in the Composite standings by the total number of kids signed, Michigan comes in 13th, right behind 12th place Ohio State.  Michigan is 12.13 while OSU is 12.19


Team Commits Score AVG
CLEM 17 283.67 16.68647
USC 18 291.2 16.17778
BAMA 19 283.27 14.90895
FLORIDA 19 255.3 13.43684
FSU 21 265.42 12.63905
OK 22 275.97 12.54409
GA 26 323.31 12.435
PSU 23 285.92 12.4313
WASH 21 259.58 12.36095
MIA 23 280.87 12.21174
OSU 26 317.06 12.19462
MICH 19 230.56 12.13474
LSU 22 254.38 11.56273
TX 27 300.06 11.11333
AUB 24 264.18 11.0075
TAM 23 251.2 10.92174
UNC 21 227.35 10.82619
SOUTHC 22 237.13 10.77864
OREG 24 254.16 10.59
TEN 22 232.67 10.57591
TCU 22 222.1 10.09545
ND 27 268.86 9.957778
NEB 24 227.95 9.497917
UCLA 28 248.84 8.887143
VTECH 26 226.01 8.692692



February 20th, 2018 at 2:05 PM ^


Our composite average recruit this year was a 3.32.  OSU's was a 3.92.  We ranked 24th in this evaluation and they ranked 2nd.  

Forget class sizes - look at the average star ranking of the players they signed and the players we signed.  To put it in context we were as close to OSU in recruiting as fucking RUTGERS was to us! (Rutgers was a composite 2.7)

And you guys want to say it wasnt that bad.....good lord.


February 20th, 2018 at 2:15 PM ^

But that thinking is flawed.  Because all 3 stars are not equal, nor are all 4 stars.  There are lots of these kids.  The difference between the top 3 star and the bottom 4 star is not a huge gap.  

247 assigns points per kid you sign based on his overall ranking.  My table divides it out that way.

So explain how it is far from accurate.


February 20th, 2018 at 2:46 PM ^

With 247 average rankings, we're effectively tied with Oregon at 15th. But it's still a small class, which means the impact of this class is smaller than a big class. This class also does not include 5* Shea Patterson. With all of our other data on Harbaugh recruiting at Michigan, this class also appears to be an anomaly.

So I just don't see what people are freaking out about. This class certainly doesn't matter for the upcoming season and it certainly doesn't mean doom for the future of the program. If it just adds some depth and we hit on a couple players, that's okay, because the other classes indicate we can attract 5* talent.


February 20th, 2018 at 2:51 PM ^

This is way too simplistic.

Going off 247 Recruiting. 

29 Kids were 5 stars

349 Kids were 4 Stars

1959 Kids were 3 stars.

First off, the 379th ranked player, (The top 3 Star) is a big step above the 2337th ranked player, the last 3 star.  

Stars matter, overall rankings matter more.

If you just go off star average, you could take a class of 24 kids, 12 5 stars and 12 ranked in the 2000s and they would be equal to 24 4 stars that were all ranked in the top 100. 

I would take 24 kids from the top 100 all day vs the other option.