1 year and 360 days ago: UM-OSU basketball, the Fire Beilein edition.

Submitted by stephenrjking on January 30th, 2019 at 12:05 AM

Michigan played Ohio State 1 year and 360 days ago, at home.

It did not go well.

Here is the Fire Beilein Snowflake Thread.

Some highlights from the MBB Coaching Candidates Thread:
Larry Krystkowiak, Utah, currently on a run of two NIT appearances.
Kevin Ollie, UConn, now fired.
Fred Hoiberg, Chicago Bulls, also fired.
Archie Miller, Dayton, most recently seen with a blank look on his face.

Thread: "John Beilein is now 2-16 vs Wisconsin, 6-11 vs MSU, and 7-14 vs Ohio State"

The recruiting, defense, and rebounding are issues that have been around 10 years and are never going to get better as long as he's still here IMO. Michigan hasn't won a true road game since February 2016. West Virginia has been better off since he left. Beilein had a nice two year run with a whole lot of "blah" before and after. Unfortunately, it feels like the program will be stuck in purgatory until a change is made.

I think if we keep Beilein we will be a perennial bubble team.  Some years on the right side, like last year, and some times on the wrong side.  I guess for some people that is enough since we went to a championship game five years ago and an elite 8 four years ago. 

I just think he is locked into a system and style of recruiting that is not working out, and it is not going to change.  It is who he is.  

Michigan basketball will be sub .500 overall with 4 or less wins in the Big Ten the next 2 years if Beilein doesn't retire or get fired.  Which are both unlikely.

The ironic thing is that he's a couple of doors down from a coach that is a master of recruiting in Jim Harbaugh.

It's almost hard to believe they are both at the same school.

I 100% believe that Harbaugh could recruit basketball players better than Beilein can recruit basketball players, despite having no basketball background.

Beilein had a pretty great 2-3 season stretch but it is clear he can't do it consistently. You really have to be on crazy pills to think it will be any better in the future if Beilein is still here. Time to move on.

Comments

mGrowOld

January 30th, 2019 at 8:44 AM ^

Ok show of hands.  How many of you just went through the entire thread to see if you made a comment in it and if you did, how stupid was it?

Three observations after doing that myself (and I sat that thread out thankfully):

1. Props to WD for fighting the good fight for Coach Beilein in that thread.  He was definitely the voice of reason in that one.

2. How in the HELL did Maizen stay out of it?

3. I miss Mr. Yost.  I now he flamed out but he was a good poster IMO.

bacon1431

January 30th, 2019 at 9:02 AM ^

This is weird. I am seeing lots of Maizen posts in that thread. I would screenshot, but I'm afraid of facing the board's ire for failing. 

EDIT: I was looking at a different thread from you. I was looking at his one with his record against other B1G teams in the title. 

ypsituckyboy

January 30th, 2019 at 8:57 AM ^

I was bracing myself as I ctrl+F'd my way through those pages. Relieved to say I didn't even comment!

Let's be honest though - he really has changed as a coach over the past 2 or 3 years, doing a lot of the things people wanted. Hired a defensive coordinator; started focusing on recruits in the 50-100 range; offering more guys and preparing better for attrition.

A Lot of Milk

January 30th, 2019 at 12:41 AM ^

I know it's not the popular opinion around here, but I literally rarely even think about football during basketball season. Don't get me wrong, it's still the most important sport to me, but basketball gets me so invested and there's so many great stories and people and games and is just so overall pleasant. I can't even imagine waiting for football season without having basketball to obsess over until March (and sometimes April).

BlakeWEdwards33

January 30th, 2019 at 12:57 AM ^

In the past few years basketball has been downright therapeutic after constant disappointing ends to football seasons. Michigan basketball has given me way more in my lifetime than football has. I’m trying to make a real effort to enjoy this basketball season to the full extent because I think this is a special team. It’s also so easy to take pride in this basketball program. They do it the right way, they back up the talk, and they beat little brother and that POS team down south. Go blue baby 

McDoomButt

January 30th, 2019 at 1:54 PM ^

It really is wonderful and I enjoy the fuck out of it, but in the end I just don't care about basketball like I care about football.

For me, basketball is the nice nerdy dude she bangs to feel better in between horrible relationships with guys who she actually is attracted to.

Wish it didn't be like it is, but it do (for me anyway).

MaizeBlueA2

January 30th, 2019 at 12:27 AM ^

I don't think it's about giving Harbaugh time as much as it's about...who is ACTUALLY going to be better?

Look at the names that were thrown out in those Beilein threads. And that's basketball with WAAAAAAY more teams and it's a lot easier to find an up and coming coach who takes you to the next step.

I've always said that about Harbaugh...fine, you don't want him. Who are you realistically going to get who's better?

There are 2 (used to be 3) coaches at the top. And then everyone else is really mishmashed in the next tier.

Brian Kelly looks good now, but did he 2 years ago? Dantonio same thing. David Shaw, Chris Petersen, Gary Patterson. 

Lincoln Riley and Tom Herman look like up and comers, but neither is leaving their current situation. Kirby Smart ain't leaving UGA, his alma mater. Those 3 are out.

So it's Harbaugh and a bunch of other Harbaugh's...guys who are going to go 8-4...12-1 depending on the year.

So when everyone is saying fire Harbaugh, there are literally 5 coaches (Saban, Swinney, Smart, Riley and Herman) who feel like better options and NONE of them would ever come to Michigan - 2 or 3 of them may not even be upgrades.

Meyer's not coming and we don't want him. Stoops ain't coming and is HE an upgrade?

So Fire Harbaugh...who am I missing? Who's out there that feels like he could be an upgrade?

LSU was ready to fire their coach, Mullen? Yeah right. Leach? LOL! Jimbo? Nope. Gundy? Okay let's stop this exercise.

You'd be taking a flyer on someone like Dino Babers and hoping you hit.

Fire Harbaugh is the dumbest thing ever...you're not going to get anyone better. You just have to hope Harbaugh has a year like UGA had last year or ND this year where he gives you a shot at knocking off one of the top 2.

Frank Chuck

January 30th, 2019 at 4:21 AM ^

Re: Dabo Swinney

People forget that Dabo Swinney was on the hot seat after the 2010 season.

- To improve the average offense, Swinney hired a HS coach (Chad Morris) to be his OC in 2011. (Imagine if Harbaugh hired a HS coach to be a coordinator. This fanbase probably would've lost its mind.) Morris fixed the offense and implemented a spread which became the foundation for the offense that Clemson still runs today. (Tony Elliott has made some changes.)

- But the defense was still an issue the following year. Who remembers Starship Dana Holgorsen and the West Virginia Mountaineers blowing out Clemson in the Orange Bowl 70-33? (That's a worse loss than The Beatdown - name I've given to the 2018 Game.)

So to improve the defense, Swinney hired Brent Venables (who was considered damage goods after getting fired by Oklahoma) in 2012. Venables began fixing the defense and is now considered the best DC in the land which is especially funny because Oklahoma's defense is now horrible.

("Oops" - Okahoma, probably)

- But Clemson didn't start competing for MNCs right away. Who remembers 2013 #3 Clemson getting blown out at home to #5 Florida State? Clemson lost 51-14. (Again, another loss worse than The Beatdown. And remember: Venables was now DC.)

- Furthermore, Clemson had to overcome Clemsoning (aka losing to inferior opponents or blowing leads in important games).

And as good as Tajh Boyd was, he wasn't Watson or Lawrence who seem to have that extra gear. (There's a reason Watson is a starting QB in the NFL and Boyd isn't.) So Clemson needed to upgrade from a very good borderline great college QB to NFL caliber QBs to be competitive against Bama.

But almost no one else remembers all that now because Clemson has been to 4 straight CFB Playoffs, played in 3 CFB Playoff National Championship Games, and beat Bama twice to win 2 National Championships.

And for my money, Swinney > Meyer.
Swinney is 2-0 against Meyer including a shutout.

Give it time. Harbaugh has shown a willingness to adapt. We'll see if Gattis truly has full control of the offense because if he does then the offense will look markedly faster and generate prolific stats.

NRK

January 30th, 2019 at 9:37 AM ^

Pour this into my soul.

 

The revisionist history on Dabo Swinney is amazing. He is regularly considered one of the top coaches around here, but his first 3.5 here's his record: 4-3; 9-5; 6-7; 10-4. Over his first four season he's had similar numbers (36-18) to Harbaugh (38-12). He is the case in point for patience.

MaizeBlueA2

January 30th, 2019 at 11:41 AM ^

Not sure if you're replying to me through this previous post...but your post doesn't mean we're both not correct.

Yes, he is the model for patience...but yes, he's also CLEARLY one of the best 2 coaches in the country running one of the best 2 programs in the country and it's really not even close.

My point was he's not coming to Michigan...not that he's always been a rock star.

NRK

January 31st, 2019 at 7:07 PM ^

I am in total agreement with you. I meant revisionist history in general, not your post. I worded in poorly because when I was saying “around here” on him being considered the best (I agree): I was trying to express that we all think that now, but did not a few years ago. I think you, me, and a Frank were all saying the same thing: patience with Harbaugh and who else could we get that is better? Sweeney, in my opinion, is the perfect argument for this.

xtramelanin

January 30th, 2019 at 6:08 AM ^

very good post, and there is one other thing that folks are forgetting...we aren't cheating!   

the programs that have had more success than us are generally a combination of joke academics and/or  SEC ethics.  does that mean everyone on our team is phi beta kappa?  nope.  does that mean it's impossible to find a player that is not PED-compliant?  nope, i don't think it does.   what it does mean though is that by and large and as an institution we are ethical in our outlook and performance.  and that some years 8-4 will be us.  other years 11-2 or even 12-1.  

ethics >> records.  

NYCBlue

January 30th, 2019 at 6:42 AM ^

Agreed - very good post.  And to your point, xtram, let's not forget that 15% of the guys tested at Clemson were suspended for PEDs.  Too bad they didn't test the whole team.  Dabo might be back on the hot seat.  To succeed without cheating (or completely compromising all human ethics as in OSU, PSU, MSU) is remarkable.  

TrueBlue2003

January 30th, 2019 at 12:45 AM ^

Beilein's issues were obvious.  He thankfully (and improbably at 60+ years-old) went out and did something about it: he hired an excellent defensive coordinator and handed over the keys.

JH's issues are obvious, too.  It seems like he's finally doing what needs to be done, the same thing JB did: swallowing his pride, hiring a good coordinator and handing over the keys.

Mr Miggle

January 30th, 2019 at 8:46 AM ^

Eh, I hear that all the time and don't think that's right. Beilein had always shown more flexibility than he was given credit for. He let long time assistants go before, went away from the defense he was known for, etc. Let's not forget that he turned that season around too.

While Yaklich has done a great job, Beilein had assembled the pieces needed to have a great defense 3½-4½ years ago. Simpson and Matthews are quite different than the prototypical Beilein players. Put Winston and Battle on the team instead and we'd be talking a lot less about Yaklich and the team would still be great.

cletus318

January 30th, 2019 at 10:30 AM ^

If those pieces were assembled 4 years ago, then you'd be hard-pressed to explain why the defense was substandard before last year. It's a lot more to having a good team defense than having good individual defenders. Case in point, MSU is 7th on KenPom with the aforementioned Winston. This would still be an excellent defense with those replacements because the scheme is great. 

Mr Miggle

January 30th, 2019 at 10:41 AM ^

The key pieces to the defense are Teske, Simpson and Matthews. They were recruited well before they were ready or eligible to make big contributions.

Yes, there is more to having a great team defense than having great individual defenders. But, this wouldn't be nearly the defense it is without them. 

WestQuad

January 30th, 2019 at 10:25 AM ^

"give Harbaugh time."  

This implies that we might fire him at some point.  Harbaugh has righted the ship.  Am I happy with 3 loss seasons?   No.    Every season we don't win the Big Ten is a disappointment.  Not beating OSU this year hurt.   Literally not showing up against Florida hurt.  ...but Harbaugh has us in a position where winning the Big Ten comes down to the Michigan-OSU game which is what it should be.  We'll be winning that game on a regular basis with Harbaugh.

UM Fan from Sydney

January 30th, 2019 at 11:41 AM ^

Especially now that we (presumably) have the coaching advantage. Meyer is the second best coach in college and OSU is a program that will do anything to win football games. It's also financed by the largest athletic department in the country (last I read). Meyer also had a three-year head start on Harbaugh and walked into a loaded dynasty that Tressel built for him. Harbaugh, while he had some good players when he came back, had a huge mess from Rich and Brady to clean. He has done a good job thus far. That said, if UM doesn't win big (all three rivals must be defeated, especially OSU) next season, then I'm going to start believing it will never happen, at least for a very long time.

LSAClassOf2000

January 30th, 2019 at 8:32 AM ^

That was a brutal stretch on this board, the threads referenced in the OP. I remember trying to cut the number of "Fire Beilein" threads and "Coaching Change" threads down to about 1-2 each just to contain the conversation and people got upset even at that because they believed they had an all-new take that deserved its own thread. 

A Lot of Milk

January 30th, 2019 at 12:22 AM ^

Beilein deserves all of the credit in the world.

The malaise between the Big Ten champs/Elite 8 team and the Maverick Morgan Master Motivator team was due to out-developing his recruiting and horrible injury luck. When you have a complex system it's hard to maintain consistency when you have guys leaving for the NBA so soon after getting to campus. LeVert and Walton were poised to take over for Burke and Tim but injury luck destroyed the chemistry of that team in 2014-15. 2015-16 was a little better, but losing LeVert again stung, even though they did make the tournament. Frustration really boiled over when it looked like 16-17 was going to be a huge bust. Played horrible for large stretches of the season, looking unmotivated and passive on offense. Then Maverick Morgan happened. And Derrick Walton happened. And when you peel back the feelingsball, you realize that Beilein just did what he does best: develop the fuck out of his players and got them playing better in March than they did all year. DJ and Mo became monsters. Derrick was out of his mind. And Michigan basketball was back just like that.

Right now we're sitting pretty because we have so much team continuity and the NBA departures have become less speedy. Theoretically, losing Charles, Teske, Iggy, and Poole would be absolutely devastating, and that's basically what happened when the program had a hiccup. Hindsight is 20/20, and I do understand why Beilein was under fire when the injuries stopped happening and the team didn't get better. But he adapted and recovered. And we're back on top. What a special time it is in Ann Arbor right now

umchicago

January 30th, 2019 at 12:30 AM ^

that was one of two games i didn't get to watch that season;  the other was south carolina.  both beat downs.  glad i missed that thread but there were plenty of other unhinged people during that season.

Trader Jack

January 30th, 2019 at 12:31 AM ^

The people calling for Beilein's job, in some cases vehemently, were crazy then and their takes look just as crazy now.

The sad part is that instead of learning from their mistakes, some of those same people have simply shifted their outrage from Beilein to Harbaugh. 

jmblue

January 30th, 2019 at 12:41 AM ^

Some absolutely brutal takes in that thread.  You read through it and you keep thinking you've found rock bottom and then somehow, the next post is worse still.

Since that game, Michigan is 65-12 overall, 28-8 in (regular-season) Big Ten play, 8-0 in the Big Ten Tournament, has reached the Sweet 16 twice, the national championship game once, and is currently projected to be a #1 seed.