Tim Hardaway Jr. - Like Father, Like Son

Submitted by Blazefire on March 3rd, 2011 at 11:07 PM

Okay, so, somebody is going to broach it eventually. I may as well be the one.

 vs. 

First of all, man does he look like his dad. Second of all, man, does he have the potential to be BETTER. Yes yes... taller. No, that's not what I mean. I mean better. Don't believe me? Lets look at the- CHART?

NO!

Dawwww...

Well, we have a table, that's almost a chart.

Harda-table
Season Games Minutes FG% 3P% FT% REB AST TO BLK STL PPG
85-86 28 435 52.1 N/A 65.1 1.3 1.9 1 0.1 0.9 4.1
86-87 31 922 50.2 25 66.3 2 4.8 2 0.2 2.2 9.8
87-88 32 1036 46.8 34 75.4 2.9 5.7 2.3 0.3 2.4 12.4
88-89 33 1182 54.8 36.6 74.1 4 5.4 2.7 0.2 2.8 19.1
10-11 30 897 41.9 37.5 74.7 3.9 1.7 1.3 0.2 1 13.6

 

Those numbers represent four years of Tim Hardaway Sr. at UTEP and the season to date for Jr. at Michigan. Lets look at some comparison numbers. First off, minutes.

Right now, Tim Jr. is averaging 29.9 minutes per game, trending upward. Figure he ends up at about 30 even or slightly over. This falls in line with his father's Jr year, most closely, where he averaged 32 minutes. As such, I think it's prudent to use that as a baseline for comparing performance in a season.

You can easily see that as Sr.'s minutes and usage rose, Freshman to Jr season, his shooting percentage fell, hitting its lowest point in his Jr. year. This coincided with a rise in his overal points and PPG as he attempted many more shots per game.

Tim Jr. is shooting at an overall lower percentage than his father ever did, but is averaging more than a full PPG higher than his father did during his most similar usage year. This is because Jr. as a freshman, is shooting almost a full percentage point higher than his father ever did on threes, and is attempting many more of them. As of right now, if we see a similar leap in shooting ability aas his career progresses, and he ends up with a similar shooting percentage as a senior (not a given, due to his height, but possible), Jr.  could easily average over 20 PPG.

Dishing it out, Jr. understandably lags compared to his Father's performance in a similar minutes year. This is mostly due to his height (your tall guys aren't usually your ball handlers), and the fact that D-Mo is the floor captain. However, he is very, very close to his Father's freshman numbers, and even though his minutes are starter minutes, we should see his Assist ratio increase as he gains expeience. Relatedly, in TO ratio, Hardaway has his similar minutes father beaten by one per game, but again, as he dishes it more, he'll turn it over more.

Rebounding, I think, is no contest, Jr is going to have his father beat. As a Freshman, he's basically hit his father's Sr. mark in less minutes, and has eclipsed his father's similar minutes Jr. mark by 1 per game. Also on the defensive game, steals are a push right now.  He's well below his Father's similar minutes numbers, but has the freshman numbers beat, and should see them increase as he develops. His father might have the slight edge when all is said and done.

So, lets add it up with a- Table? Table.

Player Overall Shoting 3 Point Rebounding Assists Turn-Overs Steals PPG
Sr. +     +   +  
Jr.   + +   +   +

Now, I'm not claiming that Jr. is a better player than his father yet. But I see four plusses for Jr and only three for Sr. Ask Freshman Sr. to play Freshman Jr.'s minutes, and I think the percentages go way down. Give Jr. four years of experience, some bigs to distribute it to inside, and a little more help, and look out.

Now all we need is for Jr. to develop one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3mJsC-EjKo

Comments

willywill9

March 3rd, 2011 at 11:35 PM ^

I keep telling my friends at work that Tim Hardaway Jr. is developing rather nicely, and that he'll be NBA material, and they disagree and say he won't be as good as Manny Harris was, let alone Tim Hardaway Sr.  At the start of the season (and very much so before the season) it was apparent that we didn't have a proven leader to step up as a scorer, and the onus was initially on Darius Morris to spark the offense, but Hardaway Jr. really has stepped it up as well and has been the saving grace in many of the games this year.

Thanks for putting this comparison together.  Nice to know (feel?) that I'm not that illogical in my evaluation of Hardaway Jr.

Hardware Sushi

March 4th, 2011 at 12:02 AM ^

Great job. I enjoyed reading this breakdown. I hadn't done any research about Sr.'s college numbers and it seems like Jr. could have a great career, even in comparison to his father, here if he continues to develop.

I'm not sure how he projects into the NBA, but at this point in his career I'm not particularly worried about it either. I'm excited to see how this young team performs in big games the next few weeks.

It's fun to watch our program right now. I can't wait for Saturday...

Tater

March 4th, 2011 at 12:46 AM ^

1.  Jr is a much more-finished product that Sr was, because he had Sr mentoring him and got to be around NBA players as a child.  Also, he has had access to training techniques and diet from an early age that most players didn't have back in the pre-internet era.

2.  From the minutes played, I would bet that Sr had the "luxury" of sitting on the bench and learning a lot as a freshman and being a role player instead of having to not only play but star if his team was going to win games.

3.  Jr is starting to look like he could end up being a better player than his dad, but even if that doesn't happen, he is already a huge asset for Michigan. 

thebrand

March 4th, 2011 at 12:57 AM ^

He is Tim Hardaway's son.

He is taller than his father.

Tim Hardaway is overachieving and our team is tagging along. I don't think we can assume two butterflies (Tim & Darius) will maintain this sudden metamorphosis and turn our program into a perennial tournament team.

I'd love to make the tourney. No way Tim is hitting 50 percent on threes during the next 3 games. yes, 3 games. then its schoolbooks and Ricks. starting now.

 

WolvinLA2

March 4th, 2011 at 11:47 AM ^

Doubt it.  If we lose to MSU, we likely play Iowa or IU in the first BTT game.  If we win that game and then lose to Purdue, I doubt we make the bubble.  That means we finished off the season by beating a bunch of non-tourney teams (which Minny is now) and lost to all the tourney teams we played. 

JHey

March 7th, 2011 at 8:40 AM ^

Senior was only 6'0" I believe.

Junior is listed at 6'5" on UM's site.  I think junior was only 6-6'1" coming out of HS, so perhaps he will grow some more.

 

He may never have his father's cross-over, but perhaps with his height, he will go other things that his father could not do.  Also, he has excellent coaching, Beilein is a great shooters coach.

And who is to say he cannot develop his father's cross-over.  If anybody could do it, it could be the son of one of the all-time greats.

JeepinBen

March 4th, 2011 at 8:30 AM ^

One nit-pick the whole Sr. Jr. THJ, THS, Junior Year stuff is somewhat confusing to read.

I agree with Tater though, THJ's biggest asset in already being more polished has to be the fact that his dad was Tim Hardaway. I'm real excited to watch him for the next (hopefully 3!!!) years before a nice NBA career

jethro34

March 4th, 2011 at 8:35 AM ^

There's some apples-to-ornages when comparing the two since they play different positions (mostly due to the height difference).

The things I dream about Jr. being able to replicate:

1. That FG%.  Sr. was so good at breaking people down and finishing with that finger roll.

2. The assists.  Court general.  Even that 1st year when he didn't get the minutes, he still had almost 2 per game.

3. He stayed for 4 years.  Please, please do the same Jr!

4. The killer-crossover.  This is part of #1.  It's got to be somewhere in the genetics, doesn't it?

steve sharik

March 4th, 2011 at 8:51 AM ^

He needs to develop his handles.  If he does that and improves the rest of his game on a normal learning curve, we might not get to see him as a senior.

Michigania

March 4th, 2011 at 8:57 PM ^

To the OP...   Hardaway Sr, from what I understand, was a pioneer of sorts and had a very unique crossover dribble move that was impossible to stop, that the NBA never saw before. This mainly got him into the league, along with his elite athletic skills, which every NBA player possesses.  Now, Jr appears to have those same elite athletic skills, and it is becoming apparent he is a very deft shooter.  It does not appear he has that same patented crossover move, and having said that, it is far-fetched RIGHT NOW to say he is gonna be better than his father, who was great. However, do I think Jr will be great?  Yes. Do I think he'll make the NBA and thrive? Yes. 

bryemye

March 4th, 2011 at 9:46 AM ^

Let's not get carried way. Tim Hardaway's crossover was point-blank legendary. Pro sports, but especially basketball and to a lesser extent football (in some positions such as DE or RB) is about having one thing you do unbelievably incredibly well. Tim's a great shooter and I think he's got a great chance of being a solid NBA player but his dad's crossover was kind of like Kareem's sky-hook.

Braylon 5 Hour…

March 4th, 2011 at 11:15 AM ^

What's interesting to me so far is that I don't think TH Jr. is getting too caught up in the questions about his dad.  Maybe it's just me, but in an interview with him after the Iowa win when he scored 30, Jim Jackson asked him "What's been the turning point for you, has it been discussions with your father, has it been the coaching staff, a combination of the two?" And Jr. responds "Oh it hasn't been my father, it's been 100% the coaching staff and working with them everyday, letting the game come to me"...Maybe it was just him trying to give the coaching staff the credit they deserve, but the way he responded made me think that he really wants to have his own path and stand on his own two feet here.  

Also, I know everyone knows this but as a basketball player, he doesn't really bear much resemblance to his dad at all.

SaginawDan

March 4th, 2011 at 12:17 PM ^

At the beginning of the season I would cringe when Hardaway would shoot, now I wish he would shoot more often. Same with Morgan, the development of those two has been incredible!

ChiefLB

March 4th, 2011 at 3:23 PM ^

I for one have been amazed by Jr's development.  Granted, he'll never have his Dad's cross-over dribble.  And there is no way he'll maintain his current 3 point fg percentage.  Nevertheless, he's established himself as a great scorer, and IMO UM Hoops' future is tied to him more than anybody else (including D. Morris).  

joeysos33

March 8th, 2011 at 1:53 AM ^

Tim Hardaway Sr had that swagger and Confidence in his game which made him so much better. Those Crossovers arent fueled just by skill but also by Confidence. You can see it in Tim Hardaway Jr's game already and i cant wait for him to develop even more.