Robinson and Forcier, My Take

Submitted by Wolv54 on February 7th, 2009 at 11:10 PM

After watching the film of both of these guys, I was totally impressed with their skills at the HS level and I wouldn't be surprised if Robinson really pushes Forcier for the starter's spot. Robinson really has great passing skills and his mechanics are excellent for someone billed as a dual threat QB, but recruited by some to play defense. Forcier is no slouch in his mechanics nor his accuracy either.

If you watch the film on Robinson and focus on his footwork and mechanics when he's not running the ball, his release reminds me of Peyton Manning. Seriously, he has a high snap release just like Manning and their footwork is similar. Robinson almost always sets his feet and squares his shoulders to his target and then delivers the ball with that high release point. If you compare his film to T Pryor, Robinson is a much better passer and much more polished. You can tell Robinson has been coached well. If you factor in his speed and running ability, he's more of the QB that RR has had success with in recent years. I can't say enough how impressive his skills are as a passer. Watch the film again for yourself and watch the footwork and the release.

Tate is a little more of a scrambler than a runner, but he definitely a very accurate passer both standing in the pocket and on the run. He also has good fundamentals, but Robinson was more disciplined in his delivery and set up than Tate, but the end result was the same. It ain't broke don't fix it. I think Tate can kill you with his arm and he can also extend plays with his legs, which in a spread offense really puts pressure on the defense to cover longer. I would give an edge to Tate in his accuracy but arm strength was not noticeably different between the two. Both of them forced the ball at times in the face of pressure, but show me a QB that doesn't do that to some degree at that level.

I think we have two great QBs in these recruits and the future looks really bright. Threet has the experience, but I just don't see how he can keep these two guys off the field. Tate will get 19-20 practices in the spring so he'll have a leg up on Robinson, but by the mid point of the season he should see some snaps if he can digest the offense and adapt to the speed of the game. Both of these young guys will see the blitz early and often IMO. If Forcier can be enough of a running threat and can take the pounding of the Big Ten then we'll see more of RR's offense than we have to this point.

I still think we're a .500 team +/- a game due to the other questions on the team, but if these guys can come in and make a difference and the OL can show continued improvement; that number could jump to 7-5 or 8-4. You have to take into account that these guys are true freshman and the team overall will be pretty young, but the future is oh so bright on the offensive side of the ball. I can't remember the last time we had so many exciting guys on the offensive side of the ball. All of the little slot ninjas, minor's power run, brown's speed, big physical receivers, and QBs who have to be accounted for will really open up the field. The biggest wild card on offense is the line, but I've got to think that we've got some depth and some guys who can add to the unit and make a positive contribution. I'm a defensive coach, so I would be very worried having to scout this many play makers and an offense with so many weapons.



February 7th, 2009 at 11:34 PM ^

I am glad there are other people who can think of almost nothing else but M football. My wife is going crazy because I want to talk about it so much (especially last Mon - Wed). Without the constant posts and speculation on the offseason - truly, I don't know what I would do with myself sometimes.

Is there any way we can get NCAAF to start games in mid June and go till January?

PS - I hope you are right and both these guys will come in and make an immediate impact.


February 8th, 2009 at 4:05 PM ^

I think your wife and my wife should get together and go crochet something. I disagree on the June through December thing though. Sure at first it would be nice but eventually that will not be enough I say run the season from Jan til Dec and maybe I'll get enough to get me through. We can still have our bowl games on Jan 1 but let the new season start on like Jan 15. Hey sounds good to me.

Six Zero

February 9th, 2009 at 10:02 AM ^

Does your wife also say "You're obsessed with Michigan football!" like it's a bad thing??

My wife prays for victories in the fall, so that the rest of the weekend isn't all shot to hell. Hard to have a nice dinner out on Saturday night after losing to Toledo. It was a tough season for her as well.


February 8th, 2009 at 12:10 AM ^

the offense is starting to shape up for the future but im still scared that RR will not put an emphasis on defense and u kno what they say- defense wins championships


February 8th, 2009 at 12:38 AM ^

I think RR focuses on D more than people think, but not enough. WHen RR was a player he was a CB I believe. So you know hes a defensive minded coach, but focuses more on offense. High powered offenses with GOOD defenses will go a long way. If it was high powered offense and bad defense we wudnt make it out of the big ten.

Coach Robinson and the young talent we have at DEF I think will be good in future.


February 8th, 2009 at 9:04 AM ^

I don't think we are in danger of seeing a transfer. Tate has been wildly open about how much he cherishes competition, and is here to compete every day. Also I'm hearing out of Ann Arbor that Tate is already getting some practice in and astounding people with his accuracy and power on the screen throws. As for Denard, I think we are good there. He wanted an opportunity to compete for QB, but he understands with sub 4.4 speed that he may have another calling/position on the team if we need him, and will move around and be an impact wherever he is. Also add that his best friend isn't going anywhere, Witty.

Finally I think this article is a little too excited about Denard. I've seen the video, and he is really fast, and yes he can throw a football, but his mechanics are certainly not superior to Tate. Tate is going to have all spring to get stronger and faster (he is already 4.55 speed) and he will be our starting QB next year.

Elno Lewis

February 8th, 2009 at 8:30 AM ^

I have no idea of what UM's record will be this year but I do think too much emphasis is being put on the 'freshman' thing. It may turn out to be a big deal, then again it may not. Nobody knows because POISE is the one thing you can't measure outside of a real game. You can't teach or coach poise. Kids have it or they don't. They can develope it. Threat, obviously, was a little short in that category--but that kid spilled his blood for the team so I am not going to bash him. Sheridan ditto. Poise is what I will looking for at the spring game. Watch for happy feet. I think 5 wins is our baseline. Anything better than that is gravy.

I also think our defense was hurt most last year by attitude. They were abused by our offense last year with all the fumbles and blown plays--how many times did we hear 40% of the plays going for losses? It gets depressing for defenders to have to run back on the field after just coming off or three and outs. Its hard to play with great intensity when the offense is performing coitus interrputus repeatedly.

RR now has some junk that can be downright nasty. Consistency will still be a problem, but not like last year. That is worth two or three games in itself. And let's face it, the Big Ten is not going to be a monster in 2009. It will be tough to win at Wisconsin. Ohio State is Ohio State. ND? Who knows. I'd be willing to bet Charlie a cheeseburger though. MSU? Well, that's a toss up. PSU--at least we have them at the Big House. Those are the games I think we'll probably lose, the rest I believe we have a fighting chance.

The Gerg? That worries me more than anything. Now the defense has to learn yet another system and buy into another coach. But, what the heck, I'll give the d a nod. Barwisinium will be more evident this year than last.

Now excuse me while I slam another shot of UM koolaid. It tastes soooooo good!

Nice diary entry, dude.


February 9th, 2009 at 2:41 PM ^

Not sure if that was intentional or a typo, but I would like to use "The Gerg" as a reference to the D. Sort of like the Borg or something screwed up like that. Seems fitting when you think about what sort of abomination it could become Graham dealing death as the limbs, the sometime absent linebackers making the body and Brown as the head staring cross-eyed and backwards as receivers run free. The Gerg.


February 8th, 2009 at 1:58 PM ^

with Peyton Manning, nothing more. He sets up with the same stance as Manning and delivers the ball with a high, quick release that doesn't have any wasted motion, like a wind up.

The have similar footwork and when you combine his footwork and his mechanics, it compares to Manning...that is all I'm saying. From a coach's standpoint, you notice those things more than you do the outcome of the play.

STW P. Brabbs

February 8th, 2009 at 10:30 AM ^

Watching film, he looks really good, but the one thing that really jumped out at me is ball security.

Holy jebus, if there's one thing he should be practicing, it's scrambling around without carrying the football like an empty beer bottle. We do not need Ryan Mallet Redux.

Blue Balls

February 8th, 2009 at 10:41 AM ^

In my opinion, I believe one of the hardest task Coach Rod will face with these two players is when to play them and when to pull them. Can anyone imagine the the ovation that Tate and Denard will get when they take the field for the first time? I get chills just thinking about it. How Coach Rod handles these two players will be very intresting for me to watch.

Denard will be the most intresting player from my perspective. His physical abilites are off the chart and when his adrenaline gets bubbling his fight or flight responces will be something to see. Denard's decision to select Michigan in my opinion was huge. When this team and it's present players get it going, Michigan's offense will become a machine. The difference on defense will be that Michigan just scored a touchdown and not three and out. I expect to see this earlier than most fans because of the weapons Coach Rod will have on offense and it will only get better. Consistency will be the deciding factor as far as the season goes. I remember reading on another blog that one sports writer thinks that Tate Forcier will have a bigger impact than any other freshmen. This sports writer might as well said Denard because these two players hold the key to this offensive machine.


February 8th, 2009 at 11:54 AM ^

I watched D Rob's video and what impressed me and scared me about him was in one play he was scrambling, and he was running to the side line, he saw a reciever on the run and threw across his body, and behind him, to the reciever into coverage. Normally that is a terrible mistake, but he threaded the needle and hit the reciever in the numbers for the completion. D Rob has the speed advantage over Tate but Tate has (in my opinion) the better arm. D Rob had the opportunity to go to UF and start next year. He said that he wants to play this year so perhaps he knows something we don't. Either QB, I like what I see for the future.


February 8th, 2009 at 3:02 PM ^

I really think a 3-9 to 9-3 turnaround is a possibility. Rick Leach and Chad Henne, for example, did fine as freshmen. The players have all had an extra year in both RR's and Barwis' systems, too.

As for the comparison to Pryor, Robinson sounds like a coach's dream, while Pryor sounds like a diva. Extremely coachable players always have great fundamentals, while divas usually get by on talent.

The coachable players usually progress through all levels of play, while the divas usually find their "water mark," the place where they can't get by on talent anymore but don't have the fundamentals to get better.

I will say for anyone who wants to hear it that I would much rather have Forcier and Robinson than "Pryor and Prayer," as some at OSU call their situation.

UM has two coachable QB's with a lot of talent, while OSU has a coachable QB with almost no talent and a diva QB who is definitely not coachable.

I know I am crossing sports, but Pryor reminds me of Chris Webber. I hope he finds his Ed Martin and I hope he gets caught. OSU deserves to pay for their history of wrongdoing that hasn't been proven well enough for the NCAA shirts to actually penalize them for.

Maybe diva Pryor will be the final piece in the puzzle that allows the NCAA to fully punish OSU.


February 9th, 2009 at 12:59 PM ^

"I know I am crossing sports, but Pryor reminds me of Chris Webber. I hope he finds his Ed Martin and I hope he gets caught. OSU deserves to pay for their history of wrongdoing that hasn't been proven well enough for the NCAA shirts to actually penalize them for."

I agree 100%. I also think that Barack Obama should be incarcerated for the wrongdoing he has done that hasn't been proven, my neighbor should be jailed for stealing my remote even though I have no evidence he did, and that the court system should do away with petty insignificant details like "evidence" because fuck, come on, everyone must be guilty, right?



February 8th, 2009 at 4:20 PM ^

WOW...Comparisons to Peyton Manning as a passer with more running ability then one of the most coveted prospects EVER! I dare say you may be raising the bar a tad high here on Robinson! Given your *breakdown* of his film, why was he not the #1 recruit ever to be recruited?!?!?! Peyton Manning and Mike Vick combined into a super QB!

The FannMan

February 8th, 2009 at 4:23 PM ^

I am excited about the flexibility Robinson brings. Imagine you're an opposing strong safety and you see a backfield with Brown, Tate and Robinson. All those guys can run or throw. Then Shaw (or Feagin or Gallon) comes in motion from the slot. Then the ball is snapped and as you're trying to locate which really fast guy actually got the snap and where the ball is now, Stonum and Stokes are running pass routes and putting pressure on the CBs. Quick - what the hell do you do?

IMH this is what the RR spread needs - mutilpe guys who can beat you in multiple ways. Threet was never a threat to effectively run the ball (how the hell did Bucky give up that one run??). Likewise, Nick was never going to tear up a coverage. Gaps in the defense are created when the guy with the ball can run or pass well. The defense has to honor both at the same time. Robsinson adds a whole new deminision since he can play in so many roles, even when Tate is on the Field.

Elno is right - the Koolaide is realy good in February! Go Blue!


February 8th, 2009 at 9:12 PM ^

RR will be able to do some nasty things with the two qbs. I expect to see a bunch of sets with both qbs in the backfield where we can snap to either one, run options with them, have a scat back, have a bunch of pass-run options out of the set. What would be considered trick or gadget plays for most teams can become common sets with a pair of multi-talented qbs and RRs imagination.


February 8th, 2009 at 11:33 PM ^

RR will have to make a tough choice this year at the QB position. And that have two guys with Big Ten experience. And two guys with high school ball experience who have seen some Big Ten games. That being said, if the talent is there for the newbies, does RR as a coach see it translating on crucial plays when the Big House faithful are getting antsy? Or do you build on what you've got? Go with Threat, who is a scholar athlete. This question, going into spring, is STILL the big question. And it may be that there is never one....the shuttling in and out may become common.

I know the common logic is,"out with the old(because it reminds us of the nightmare season) and in with the new!"

but I just wanna win