My Encounter With Coach Carr Last Night
[Ed-M: We've been waiting for you Obi-Jim. The write-up is now complete: bumped]
Evening, folks. Last night I had the honor of meeting and having a pleasant conversation with Lloyd Carr, so I thought I would share the story. Nothing too exciting but some of you may find it interesting.
One of my friends, who is a prominent athlete from Windsor (prominent to Windsor people, probably not to you guys) was up for an award at the Wespys. So i went with him without even knowing that Lloyd was the keynote speaker. When I found out, excitement ran over me. After the awards, we went to his table and he told us to sit down as he congratulated my friend for being nominated, although he didn't win. I should mention at this point that when one meets Lloyd Carr, he exudes class and sincerity even before he begins to speak. He then asked me if I was up for any awards, to which I replied that I was simply a spectator and am currently in law school. His reaction to this was to ask what I studied as an undergrad. When I mentioned philosophy, he said "Wow, that's excellent, you must be a heavy reader."
As a Michigan football fan of gargantuan proportions and a boy who became a man during the Lloyd Carr era, my first reaction upon hearing that Coach Carr would be speaking at the event was to behave like a child meeting Santa Claus and ask him a million football related questions. However, as someone who intends to become a hockey agent after law school and who knows a few athletes, I understand that these people receive the same questions ad nauseum from the general public. It is understandable, but at some point they develop pre-packaged, often repeated, and extremely generic answers to these encounters after hearing them constantly. Thus, I decided to refrain from asking any football questions at all and just enjoy his company.
The conversation was about 8-10 minutes long and we mostly discussed literature and philosophy. There was a great point in the conversation when we talked about writers who make their work inaccessible to most people by unnecessarily writing in complex schemes just for complexity's sake. I said I prefered the simple, classic, and understated genius of writers like Mark Twain and Charles Dickens, whose complexities come from the depth of their characters. He agreed.
When it was time to go, I shook his hand and told him it was a pleasure to meet him, to which he responded, and I'm paraphrasing, "You're a very charismatic young man and I'm sure you will go far." This, to say the least, made me feel like a million dollars well into today, and probably beyond.
So, I have nothing new for you guys, no inside knowledge about about his opinions on Hoke, Denard, or Rodriguez. Just a very enjoyable evening with a world-class human being and someone we should all be proud to say coached our football team. Thanks for reading.
April 22nd, 2011 at 10:15 PM ^
I used to park at the commuter lot on state street. One day I was a moment late and missed the bus. Laurie Carr was coming out of the gymnastics building coming from a fundraising meeting and saw me just miss the bus. She offered to drive me to campus. We talked about biomedical research the whole time since I am interested in amyloid proteins. The entire Carr family is classy.
April 22nd, 2011 at 10:17 PM ^
This is better than 'inside knowledge' on how he feels about player X, coach Y. Much better to hear about another side of the man, rounding out character.
Great story & thanks for sharing.
April 22nd, 2011 at 10:30 PM ^
April 22nd, 2011 at 10:54 PM ^
The cupboard was bare.
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<br>/s
April 22nd, 2011 at 11:54 PM ^
Apparently Lloyd often leaves the cupboard bare?
April 22nd, 2011 at 10:41 PM ^
We need to talk. I train some NHL guys.
April 22nd, 2011 at 10:44 PM ^
That's a great story, and Carr is a class act all around. He continues to make us proud.
April 22nd, 2011 at 10:55 PM ^
It's nice to see what a class act he is. He's really representing this university well.
In a "Cool Story, Bro" kind of way, I used to live right down the street from Nick Lidstrom, and being a teenage hockey player, I was in awe of having one of the greatest hockey players of all time just a few doors down. He would be out there for Halloween, his family even went caroling a couple years, and our families actually became pretty close.
I babysat for his kids on multiple occasions, and before I would leave for the Lidstrom's, my dad would sit me down and make sure that I wouldn't say anything about the game last night or the Red Wings or anything related. He said Lidstrom got enough of that elsewhere, he shouldn't be bothered at home.
Anyways, moral of the story, Lidstrom moved about a year ago, and before he moved, he stopped by our house to say goodbye and as he was leaving, he said that he really appreciated how we treated him and his family like a normal family. He then brought up the upcoming playoffs, and we proceeded to talk hockey for a good hour.
April 22nd, 2011 at 11:01 PM ^
possibly even more than the OP.
Both are great though - no need to rank, I suppose.
really make this into a diary.
I'm so incredibly jealous. That man is my idol
April 22nd, 2011 at 10:57 PM ^
What is was like to coach his son, William?
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<br>I tried convincing many people of this but the scrawny 3rd strung qb was a little more believable.
April 23rd, 2011 at 12:08 AM ^
In the Purdue game.
April 22nd, 2011 at 11:48 PM ^
at a dinner in 2004. I won a fundraising contest and got to sit with him for the meal. We didn't talk much about football. He was more interested in what I did, how my children were doing and the like. I was very impressed with his kindness and dignity. And my wife, who knows little about football and cares even less, was captivated. I will ALWAYS be a Lloyd Carr fan. A genuinely good man.
April 22nd, 2011 at 11:56 PM ^
The guy inherited great players from Gary Moeller (31 players on the 1997 team went to the NFL - how many on Carr's last team?) and he won with them. Then he spent the next 10 years building his program finishing 1-6 against Ohio State and in his final season suffering humiliating losses to Appalachian State and Oregon.
As a life long fan of Michigan football - who actually saw Bo coach and the original #1 Anthony Carter play - I do not understand the Carr-fetish that some people on this site have. He was an accidental coach who had great success with Moeller's recruits and then spent the next 10 years steadily driving us downhill. He's the guy who recruited the classless Braylon Edwards and so many of the former players who failed to support guys like RVB.
The best thing Brandon did was fire Carr last summer. Good riddance.
April 23rd, 2011 at 12:15 AM ^
Not to get into a Carr argument, but I would say nearly as many players from that 2007 team did/will go on to the NFL as the 1997 team. Take another look at that roster.
would one call that a "Carrgument"? Yes, I went there.
April 23rd, 2011 at 12:29 AM ^
Are you serious?? He still won a national championship, regardless of whose players. It happens everywhere, look at Auburn this year, OSU in '02. No one calls it John Cooper's national championship. He won 5 big ten titles, was ranked in the Associated Press Top 25 for all but nine of his games, and won four straight bowl games at one point. Not to mention hes an all class person as shown by the many stories above. Just because Braylon is an idiot doesn't mean you have to hate on Coach Carr.
April 23rd, 2011 at 12:31 AM ^
April 23rd, 2011 at 12:53 AM ^
Lloyd was a coach on Moeller's staff.....I'm pretty sure that means he did some recruiting too. In fact, he was the DC which means that he was heavily responsible for bringing in some the of players on the best defensive team in Michigan history. I hate to use the word "stupid" in an open forum but I think that Rumsey has earned it.
While it may be de facto stupid, I wouldn't normally call it out as such if it wasn't in a post about what a great guy Lloyd was to the OP, and how they talked about all things not football. If the gist of the diary was an analysis of his use of the punt on 4th and short, it would still probably be ill placed, but not flat out "you're an idiot". But it's so out of left field on the topic, it just seems like trolling, not analysis or commentary.
You are not going to have any topic on a Michigan board with "Lloyd Carr" in the title and not have a few shots after what's happened in recent years.
There is a lot of smoke that this man submarined a Michigan head coach. Some people are going to respond with hostility to that. His legacy will forever be a mixed one, unfortunately.
Time and place, my friend. Time and place.
April 23rd, 2011 at 11:21 AM ^
His legacy won't be written by rumor-mongers or smoke signals. It will be written by his record and the hundreds of men who played for and loved him.
I think this calls for the invention of a new term: E-legacy. The legacy one has as viewed by internet morons.
yet to see a shred of evidence that Lloyd sabotaged RR. If it's out there, please place it in evidence.
P.S. Being noncommital, unsure, ambivalent, or silent is--of course--not the same as sabotaging someone. My sense is that Lloyd saw it as his duty to get out of the way of the new guy, period, then struggled to make sense of what info he got, often from former players, as best he could (like all of us).
Because it's completely reasonable to believe Rich didn't get full support, or had people who never were really behind him, or a LOT of things to overcome that were beyond his control (as well as many that were), without seeing some massive "second bullet" conspiracy theory of a plot to doom him.
April 23rd, 2011 at 12:31 AM ^
Wow. Logged on just to neg this, not that it has any effect.
Such disdain for the only Michigan coach to win a national title in the last god knows how many years, the guy who recruited Tom Brady, and yes, the guy who recruited Braylon Edwards, one of the greatest wide receivers in Michigan history, who has donated untold time and dollars to good deeds related to Michigan, while you're an anonymous jackass throwing stones on the internet.
Go fuck yourself.
It seems you for get that he was 4-1 in his first five games against OSU. Two of those wins were upsets against the #2 team in the country that prevented OSU from playing for the championship.
Carr coached from 1995-2007 and was 121-40-0 and 6-7 vs OSU
RR coached from 2008-2010 and was 15-21 and 0-3 vs OSU
Bo who I loved as well, was only 11-9-1 vs OSU. Only moderately better than Carr.
Bo, Carr and now Hoke bled Maize and Blue. RR was just their coach. That's the difference.
April 23rd, 2011 at 11:41 AM ^
the guy didn't even mention richrod so wtf is your point lololol
I agree. There is no need to mention RR at all. LC was a class act while coach, and his love for the program is often ignored. He was passionate for his players, and he did everything in his power to uphold the integrity of this institution. So did RR. So did Bo. So, God willing, will Hoke. Records differ, but we have been blessed to have multiple eloquent, passionate men lead our football program. The need to tear one down to build up the other is completely unnecessary and ridiculous.
April 23rd, 2011 at 11:20 PM ^
Rumsey87 is not my homeboy.
April 24th, 2011 at 11:23 PM ^
So he's a classy guy that lost a few rivalry games toward the end of his run. You're both right. Satisfied?
Also, who could forget the Florida game? Handling Florida's business in their own backyard, and Coach Carr being carried off the field. Good stuff.
April 23rd, 2011 at 12:25 AM ^
Fishing season is upon us, time for a bit of trolling I see. Like many people who lack the means to understand something, you can only defile it.
April 23rd, 2011 at 12:32 AM ^
Next time, consider responding thusly:
"You, sir, are a charismatic older gentleman, and I am sure you will go far."
Great story. I wish everyone who wants to brand him as the cause of all evil and failure in the Michigan program could have an encounter like this. But as shown here, some people have a lack of understanding on what Michigan Football is about (clue: it's not about entertaining you with the level of wins you demand, i.e. all of them, just so you're satisfied). The guy wasn't perfect, and football-wise he could have been a bit less conservative, and maybe not quite so loyal to his assistants (except the one time he wasn't, and it might have been a bigger mistake). But making sure the game was about his players, and giving them the opportunity to get the most of the experience they could (while winning a whole lot along the way)....and throwing some quotes that would make academic oriented Michigan proud....we were lucky to have him, not the other way around.
...said.
In case anyone was interested in what happened at the WESPYs, here's an article about the evening. There's a picture of Lloyd, but nothing about his remarks, unfortunately.
If you live in the vicinity of Frankenmuth, here's an opportunity to hear Lloyd speak on 30 April.
April 23rd, 2011 at 12:36 PM ^
I don't think, if you asked Lloyd, that he would say his coaching style--as a whole--was conservative. I think that he had an (albeit evolving) sense of how to play the game and within the constraints of game planning there were times to be imaginative (that is, catch the other team by surprise), times to ram it down the opponent's throat, and times to nurse the lead. He saw it as playing the odds, to a degree, and he also had a gentlemanly notion (all but extinct among coaches today) about how you played when you were up big. . . which in those days was two scores.
I just love the crap out of the guy myself, though his play-calling also drove me crazy at times. We won't see his like again and, in truth, there were few like him to begin with. Hoke will at least get the integrity part right.
Before I read this.
But yes, I really don't have a problem if someone prefers a different style of football. There are fair criticisms there. (Though the idea that he was just a coach who lucked into a lot of wins and a crap coach is just ridiculous). No one is saying he's going down as the great football mind of all time. In fact, probably not the greatest in Michigan history. But as we've seen, it's not nearly as easy to stay really good to great for 13 (or 40) years as it seemed at the time, so something must have been done right.
But again, that gets to the idea that a lot of different systems can work. It's harder to find a guy who can make something work, and still run things the way Michigan wants and expects it to run. And that's maybe the major reason I like Hoke. Knowing the man, I know he wants to do things the right way, and not just "not cheating", but valuing the experience of the student-athlete and making it the best time of their lives. I love it when a guy who's played 10 years in the NFL, and has a Super Bowl ring, says he treasures his Michigan years over his whole pro career. And necessary addendum...that stuff was never really a concern for me with Rich. I always thought the "sleazy" side of the criticism was unfounded and unfair. I'm just glad we got someone who will continue that, rather than....well, there were some names... Will Hoke win? None of us know for sure. And if he doesn't, he'll be gone too. I think he's off to a good start with coordinators, and more importantly, recruiting (which I think is WAY more important than scheme. Lloyd didn't slip a bit at the end when he started coaching differently, it was when defensive recruits didn't work out in the same number. Recruit great players, they'll make any scheme look good. And make sure a lot of them are on defense).
to Hoke, even--looking at Borges--beginning to think play won't necessarily be too boring on offense. And I will be very surprised if the D doesn't become really, really good.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for posting this. I am extremely jealous.
The conversation was about 8-10 minutes long and we mostly discussed literature and philosophy. There was a great point in the conversation when we talked about writers who make their work inaccessible to most people by unnecessarily writing in complex schemes just for complexity's sake. I said I prefered the simple, classic, and understated genius of writers like Mark Twain and Charles Dickens, whose complexities come from the depth of their characters. He agreed.
I totally think Nick Saban could have held his own in that conversation.
It's not even a comment on how worldly he is....just his speaking style, that would be hilarious. We used to watch "Spartan's Sports Mag" or whatever it is just to hear him grunt out answers. "So, tell us about the Michigan game?" "Urgh...we played....like...little bitches....*grunt*".
I met Lloyd Carr once...All I could muster was "good luck this season, coach."
FML
April 23rd, 2011 at 10:54 AM ^
I don't have much to add. The one time I ran into Lloyd was in the elevator of the parking garage next to Palio in 2008 or 2009. He was talking to other fans so I didn't get a word in, but he was just like your story says - asking about everything except football.
Great story OP. Also loved the Lidstrom story in the comments.
April 23rd, 2011 at 11:18 AM ^
The first was as he was coming out of a restaurant and I had passed him and as I was walking away (this was in 2005 or 2007) all I could manage was saying "Lloyd Carr!", he turns and I just yell out "the man". He then gave me a thumbs up or a wave or something.
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<br>The second time was at a Michigan recruiting event at the rose bowl where I met both Lloyd and got a picture with Mary sue Coleman.
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<br>As much as I disagreed with his playstyle there Is just no way that you could not respect the man because he was and is a truly captivating individual and a coach that doesn't come around very often.
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April 23rd, 2011 at 11:31 AM ^
Jim:
I can't say enough good about Lloyd. I wrote a (label it some place between curious and dubious) book about UM sports, Obscene Diaries of a Michigan Fan, and after publication I received a phone call from someone claiming to be Lloyd Carr and asking to meet him at his office--- if I would. Well, it sounded like the Coach but still thinking it was a prank (from a retired attorney who is a friend of mine, a novelist now) I showed up at LC's office. No prank. He wanted to talk about my book and we did for an hour. And he invited me back on the next Saturday after practice (pre-season). We ordered pizza and talked to the middle of the AM at Schembechler Hall. Later, he let me sit in on a a session with Scot Loeffler and the the QBs (Chad Henne, Matt G and Jason Forcier) on the promise that I not write about it until he gave me permission (he did, once he retired). Out of this, Scot and I became friends and we talk routinely.
I think Lloyd and I became friends, too. He invited my brother and I to golf and he sandbagged a bit to make us feel less woeful about our games. We keep in touch. He threatens to write an introduction for my new book, one that I can't figure out how to end. I have spent many hours in his office talking art, politics, literature. We have talked about David Romer and fourth down choices. In his last game against OSU, he ran 5 of 6 plausible 4th down plays (alas, re the one he passed on) and he seemed to be moving to the idea that Romer is or might be right. He is, as much as onyone I have ever met, a person of ideas. He is a person who cares about those less fortunate. Most of all he cared about his players, and his ex-players.
Lloyd is completely without arrogance. Once after he spoke to a group I came up to him and a guy was asking a question about the death of the single wing. Lloyd looked over to me and said "Ask this guy about that. He knows more than I do." This was, of course, not close to true, but LC chose the moment to flatter me about a question that he knew I knew the answer to.
He is one the most interesting and best people I have ever met. And I am proud that I rooted for the teams he coached.
Craig Ross
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