Grading the Big 10 Programs/Coaches

Submitted by Eye of the Tiger on February 14th, 2012 at 6:49 PM

The Dantonio/Bielema temper tantrums about Urban Meyer’s recruiting tactics got me thinking: they’re just scared.  For the past few years, these programs have been making moves towards the elite level of the Big 10.  You know, the territory traditionally reserved for Michigan and Ohio.  We helped them do that, thanks to our little flirtation with the bottom half of the conference.  Ohio too, what with the vacated wins, departing coach and imminent postseason ban.  Unfortunately for the nouveau riche of the conference, though, the old money has reasserted itself in a big way, with the traditional powers of the conference absolutely dominating the 2012 recruiting cycle.  It was if, from subterranean offices near playing fields in East Lansing and Madison, the newcomers looked to Ann Arbor and Columbus and heard the words: “I’m sorry, sir, but the this is an exclusive country club. Perhaps you’d be happier with a more…local option?” 

Whether there’s any truth to this is another story, but you can feel the paranoia emanating from those who think their window of opportunity may be closing.   So how accurate are they?  What kind of opportunities do exist for the various schools in the conference, with their current rosters, recruits and coaching staffs?  I decided to take this question on with a bit of qualitative analysis, by grading the performance of each team in 2011 and its recruiting class for 2012.  Then I predict what the near future holds for these schools, with a brief outlook and then a predicted average wins (in the regular season) over the next 3-5 years, given the current coaching staff and their likely performance in recruiting, training and coaching.  Finally, I choose the 2012 model car that I believe best encapsulates all this information.  Why?  Because I like cars, that’s why. 

But let me run through a quick example to show you why it’s appropriate.  For Brady Hoke, I chose the 2012 BMW M5. That would be the F10 model, for all you gearheads out there, an efficient-and-deadly speedster powered by a V8 biturbo engine.  His predecessor Rich Rodriguez, by extension, is the now defunct E60 version, which broke from long-standing tradition by installing a naturally aspirated V10 instead of the traditional V8.  This model was, and remains, the favorite of a core of enthusiasts who fell in love with its raw power and pure, unadultered speed.  Problem was, it didn’t handle so well in some pretty basic conditions, and ran through gas like nobody’s business.  The 2012 M5, then, is something of a return to what M5s are traditionally good at—delivering high performance consistently and efficiently—if, in the process, it loses a dab of peak performance in a straight-ahead race.  Channel Fred Jackson and think Carr-level success, only turbocharged!

So with that said, here’s your conference for you…


Big 10 Programs/Coaches

1. Illinois

Coach: Tim Beckman

2011 Season Grade: C-

2012 Recruiting Grade: F

Outlook: Zook dropped the FAIL grenade on the Illini after the sixth game of the season, and so the AD went searching for a new coach.  Wait…and they hired that guy?? Maybe Beckman surprises us all, but it doesn’t look good for the Illini.  Sure Zook was the class clown of the conference, but he did actually get some actually good players to play for Illinois, and he did actually get Illinois to a Rose Bowl back in 2007.  Beckman?  There’s nothing in his resume that suggests he’ll turn Illinois from mediocre to good, and a lot to suggest they’ll stay on the low end of mediocre. 

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 5

As a 2012 model car: Fiat 500.  Underneath the shiny new exterior, it’s still a very small Chrysler. 


2. Indiana

Coach: Kevin Wilson

2011 Season Grade: F

2012 Recruiting Grade: F

Outlook: DOOM. 

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 3

As a 2012 model car: Smart ForTwo, which appears to have been dreamed up by people who know nothing about cars, care nothing about cars and wish they were working in the gift card and/or baby stroller manufacturing industries.  Oh, and it’s basically ready-made to get crushed to death in a dustup with any other vehicle imaginable, including bicycles, pedicabs and actual baby strollers. 


3. Iowa

Coach: Kirk Ferentz

2011 Season Grade: B-

2012 Recruiting Grade: B

Outlook: More, more, more of the same, which of course means disciplined, sure-tackling vanilla defenses coupled with bruising but unimaginative MANBALL offenses.  Fine, generally, when you get them at home, but a pain-in-the-ass to play away.

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 7

As a 2012 model car: Ford F-150.  Bulky, cumbersome and can’t really corner, but rugged, efficient and lasts forever. 


4. Michigan

Coach: Brady Hoke

2011 Season Grade: A

2012 Recruiting Grade: A

Outlook: Rosy.  Hoke and his staff got 11 wins with spotty talent, an offense built for a system his coordinator didn’t really know that well, close to zero depth and what was, just a year ago, Michigan’s worst defense ever.   If he can do this with that, imagine what he can do when he has all his pieces in place?  We’re going to be really good for a while, though I expect 2012 and 2013 to be a little more difficult than 2011 was.  We’re back, though.  We’re ****ing back. 

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 10

As a 2012 model car: BMW M5.  A classy return to traditional form, while capturing a lot of what people liked about the last variant. German efficiency all sported up. 


5. MSU

Coach: Mark Dantonio

2011 Season Grade: A (as much as it pains me to say it)

2012 Recruiting Grade: B

Outlook: Dantonio has put together the best back-to-back Sparty seasons probably since the 1960s.  A classic WWF-style heel, this is the kind of guy who cuts assistant coaches off during presentations and allegedly doesn’t like well-wishers who work at rival teams’ stadiums.  But the heel can coach, having taken advantage of our brief recruiting emphasis on small/fast dudes from outside the state to put together a genuinely good, prototypical Big 10 squad.  Now that we’re back, and splitting basically 90% of their top recruiting targets with Ohio, expect some regression to the mean. 

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 8

As a 2012 model car: Chevrolet Camaro SS.  It’s got a big block engine and can go pretty fast, but it’s fairly simplistic at the end of the day.  Might look flash peeling out on the straights, but it’s bound to let you down on the corners.  Plus it’s going to look really embarrassing in a few years. 


6. Minnesota

Coach: Jerry Kill

2011 Season Grade: D-

2012 Recruiting Grade: D-

Outlook: It can’t get much worse than the beatdown we put on these guys, and luckily for them, it did get a little better towards the end.  Kill is a pretty good coach, but he’s drinking from a poisoned chalice.  If they give him the chance, I expect him to improve things over the long haul, but perhaps not enough in the short-term for that chance to be granted. 

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 4

As a 2012 model car: Hyundai Azera.  No one cares about this car, but it’s supposed to have good resale value.  So that's something...


7. Nebraska

Coach: Bo Pelini

2011 Season Grade: B

2012 Recruiting Grade: C+

Outlook: Hard to say, because Nebraska is both the new guy and the odd duck in the Big 10.  I’d say based on flimsy evidence that it looks pretty good, but not that good.  Everyone expected them to contend for the conference title this year, but they weren’t really all that impressive.  On the other hand, they’ve won 9+ games each of the last four seasons…though three of those were in the Big 12 North. 

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 8

As a 2012 model car: Nissan 370Z.  Weird looking, the 370Z still manages respectable numbers, like a 4.7 second 0-60, provided you’re going straight ahead with no complications. That’s good for 8 wins, right? 


8. Northwestern

Coach: Pat Fitzgerald

2011 Season Grade: C+

2012 Recruiting Grade: B+

Outlook: It’s never really clear how the Wildcats are going to do.  Some years they beat expectations, whereas in others (like 2011), they fail to meet them.  Souped-up mediocrity.  

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years:

As a 2012 model car: Mazda RX-8, the kind of low cost sports car kids like to paint neon green.  


9. Ohio

Coach: Urban Meyer

2011 Season Grade: C-

2012 Recruiting Grade: A

Outlook: Detention for 2012, but mostly blue skies after that, provided Ohio can solve three problems.  The first one is the little issue of probation.  Neither Ohio nor Meyer can be said to have run a tight ship over the past few years, and unlike pre-tats Columbus or pre-retirement Gainesville, all NCAA and journalistic eyes are trained on every Ohio player’s every move.  Meyer’s going to have to run a squeaky clean problem, and that may very well entail letting go of players he wants to keep—not just the ones who free up scholarships for more promising recruits.  The second problem concerns Meyer himself.  He’s not exactly one to stay in the same place for long—he was at Bowling Green for 2 years, Utah for another 2, and at Florida for 5.5 (if you indeed count the last one at all).  Maybe that’s trending in the right direction for Ohio, but smart money says he doesn’t stay forever, or even as long as Jimbob did.  Finally, there are the fans.  Not all of Urban’s Florida teams were good, but he had the benefit of following Ron Zook’s Travelling Underachiever Freakshow.  Now he answers to a fickle fanbase that has come to expect a Tresselesque (10+wins including Michigan)/year, only with moar national championships plz.  Expect one, but not more than one.  Cue Tressel-stalgia at the first sign of trouble.    

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 10

As a 2012 model car: Ferrari FF.  This new model is slick, bold, fast and it immediately catches your eye, but you just don’t know how long it’s going to last.  And you know it’s a question of when, not if, it breaks down on you.


10. Penn State

Coach: Bill O’Brien

2011 Season Grade: F

2012 Recruiting Grade: F

Outlook: How does a 9-win season end up with an F?  When a grand jury reveals that your former-DC was allegedly molesting children on your campus and, when confronted with this information, your once-legendary coach passes the buck to two guys who allegedly covered it up and let the guy keep coming to campus, resulting in 3 indictments and a summary termination of services for said ex-legend.  Add in Paterno’s death, the unexpected and uninspiring hire of NFL OC Bill O’Brien to replace him and Urban Meyer’s vampire-like feast on the blood of the schools’ 2012 recruiting class, and it’s clear that the Sandusky bomb has reduced Penn State to an irradiated, mutant-filled post-apocalyptic nightmare.  That isn’t to say O’Brien can’t turn things around, but if people thought Lloyd Carr left a mess for Rich Rodriguez, then Penn State redefines the parameters of what a mess can be.  And Rodriguez went in with a lot of experience running college programs.  Thankfully for Happy Valley, the rich recruiting fields of Central Pennsylvania act as a plucky postal service for the survivors, and some meager existence is eked out. 

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 6

As a 2012 model car: Lincoln MKT.  At one point, this was a respected luxury brand (at least in some corners).  Now you can plausibly ask if it will still be with us 2 years from now.   Oh, and this one's a minivan.  


11. Purdue

Coach: Danny Hope

2011 Season Grade: D+

2012 Recruiting Grade: C-

Outlook: Danny Hope just got a contract extension, though he’s done little to prove he deserved it.  I guess I could say that he isn’t terrible, and it would be true, but he’s no Joe Tiller either.  I don’t imagine Purdue will change much in the next few years. 

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 5

As a 2012 model car: Kia Forte.  Barely serviceable, thoroughly uninspiring, and already mostly forgotten. 


12. Wisconsin

Coach: Bret Bielema

2011 Season Grade: A-

2012 Recruiting Grade: B+

Outlook: Bielema’s quietly taken the nest egg Barry Alvarez left him and turned Wisconsin into the class of the Big 10.  Of course, a lot of this success stems from the offense, and it isn’t clear how much losing Chryst and Wilson will hurt the Badgers.  Expect a lot of Monte Ball, and whoever the next Monte Ball is, as well as some regression to the mean as the coordinators take their services elsewhere and the competition for the big guys heats up on the recruiting trail. 

Predicted avg. wins over next 3-5 years: 9

As a 2012 model car: Dodge Charger SRT8.  Another Big 10 muscle car, only this one’s bigger and uglier than the others.  Seats four, though, so it’s kinda practical. 



Eye of the Tiger

February 14th, 2012 at 8:48 PM ^

Which is a car I love.  And I think, eventually, that might be a good metaphor for our program.  But it's not where we're at now, not where I think we were at under RR, and certainly not where we were under Carr.  

The M5 experiment with a naturally aspirated V10 during almost the exact same years RR was our coach, the move back to a V8 turbo and, presumably, the move back to a consistent success that's, well, very German in character, seemed appropriate...



February 15th, 2012 at 11:21 AM ^

Dude, what are you talking about "move back to a V8 turbo"?  I would think a proper car enthusiast would know that  ///M cars have always been normally aspirated high compression high revving engines until just very recently with the M versions of the X5 and X6 and now the F10 M5!

 Maybe you're thinking of the move to a V10 in the E60 as opposed to a V8, but even then only the E39 had previously had a V8...the first two generation M5's (E28 and E34) both had inline six's......also, for the record, the E60 M5 was a great commercial success, enjoying the highest sales numbers of any generation M5 ever, so again, I'm not tracking this comparison at all!


oh, one more thing...the picture you have is of the E60 and not of the F10....



Eye of the Tiger

February 14th, 2012 at 8:45 PM ^

A couple typos (STR8 instead of the proper SRT8, in particular) and a baffling mixup of Illini coaches (which I'll chalk up to consistent sleep deprivation)...thanks for pointing those out.  Edited.  




February 14th, 2012 at 9:48 PM ^

Thats it, I am going to bed after I pass out from laughing too hard. Thanks!

"Oh, and it’s basically ready-made to get crushed to death in any dustup with any other vehicle imaginable, including bicycles, pedicabs and actual baby strollers."

Feat of Clay

February 14th, 2012 at 11:03 PM ^

I feel like we're now a little too MANBALL to be assigned a car whose television ads might feature voiceover in a refined british accent.

Also, a former Cornhusker it was odd to see Nebraska as anything but some kind of pickup truck.


February 15th, 2012 at 12:30 AM ^

I hope this one gets a front page bump.  I would only change one thing: I would call MSU a Range Rover Sport.  

Why?  They look great on the outside, and have nice numbers, and casual observers think they are among the finest SUV's out there, but they are expensive, overrated, and almost always break down when you need them to perform the most.  


February 15th, 2012 at 12:41 AM ^

I actually like Beckman and I've always thought Illinois should be better than they are in both football and basketball.  Good school, good recruiting area, decent history.

I'd go with an Acura TL.  Yes, it's ugly now.  They made it look like a Saturn.  But it used to be a nice car.  Decent luxury, decent sports sedan, nice looks and a good price.  It's a Honda, so it should be good, it just isn't right now.


February 15th, 2012 at 12:58 AM ^

I live in Toledo and Beckman took a down and out Rocket team and turned them into a pretty strong and exciting team pretty quick.  He can coach and is a pretty decent recruiter, I see them as a 7-8 win team consistently and possibly getting to 9-10 on occassion.


February 15th, 2012 at 1:05 AM ^

Very creative and well done. Love the car descriptions.


One thing, I think that Nebraska might have topped out under Pelini. They haven't really gotten any better under him, and they look completely undisciplined at times. Just think of the implosion they had against us (that game was on BTN today, which was a lot of fun to watch during commercials) and that's Nebraska in a nutshell. I don't see why they would be anything better than an 8 win team in the near future.


February 15th, 2012 at 9:03 AM ^

Uh..,. Actually it's the F10 that breaks tradition by using turbocharging. M cars have traditionally been normally aspirated engines that were high revving. Where the E60 broke with tradition was its use of a clutch less transmission which was rather clunky for day to day driving. The F10 still uses a clutchless transmission FWIW. A better talking point would have been the avant garde design of the E60 versus the reversion to the more traditional BMW look of the F10. So as a M alum and a BMW owner/enthusiast I am seeing some major flaws w/ your comparison. Nice try though :)

MMB 82

February 15th, 2012 at 11:40 PM ^

to the E39, and I have to say the F10 is dissapointing with regard to styling and performance. If anything, the 5 Series is starting to feel/drive like the 7; my next car will probably be a 335 Coupe, or I may finally part ways with BMW. Have driven, but never owned an M5 though.

Hardware Sushi

February 15th, 2012 at 9:53 AM ^

I like this - the car comparison was new and refreshing. I really like the new Camaro so I'd rather MSU be something shittier.

Doesn't MSU just borrow our car for a few years and then bitch about it when we take it back?

Notre Dame is an old 50s Porsche. Looks cool, gets lots of attention, performs poorly. And apparently Nebraska under Bo Pelini will win 9 games every year, no matter the talent.


February 15th, 2012 at 10:24 AM ^

A fresh look on it all. I will say, IMHO, even when it was mentioned in the car commercial thread, I think BMW's have always been overrated for the price.  They had a some nice looks in the 90's, but overall look pretty awful in their sports car price range.  The '12 Ford Focus looks better than that BMW.  Having said that, if you were going for something that runs really well, has all the bells and whistles, gets the job done consistently, but sometimes looks ugly doing it, yeah, that's pretty apt for Michigan Football.

Other car comparison thoughts-

  • Boy, the Fiat 500 is a really ugly car.
  • I actually kinda like the Mazda for what it is, which is how I feel about Northwestern's program.
  • How does Danny Hope still have a job? (Has coaching in the Big Ten gone up or down from say, 5 years ago?  MSU is on the upswing, and Michigan, Ohio State and Wisconsin are probably about the same or maybe modest upgrades, but boy, the rest of those coaching changes aren't exactly exciting)



February 15th, 2012 at 10:37 AM ^

Some good projections, but I think there are some over/under achievers out there. I actually think Minnesota is going to get to be more of a middle of the road program with about 6-7 wins in a season as long as Kill's health holds out. He's similar to Hoke in that he's taken several teams on as rebuilding projects, and like Hoke he's been successful at it each time. That being said he won't be able to recruit like Hoke and Co. and he certainly didn't inheret the same level of talent, but I think he gets them bowl eligible nearly every year starting in 2013.

On the other side, I think a few years down the road Nebraska might really start to struggle if they can't pick up their recruiting. They only managed to land 6 4 stars this year, down from 11 the year before and 8 the year before that, and they relied on the Big 12 footprint for about half of their recruits. Now they can no longer tell Mom and Dad down in Texas that they'll get to see their kid play once or twice a year just by driving 4 hours. If they can't get a foot hold quickly in Illinois and Ohio I think they're going to be looking at some 6-7 win seasons.


February 15th, 2012 at 11:25 AM ^

Good work with this, but I don't see predicted wins for Northwestern. I'm going to guess you said 6.

I think Purdue can average 6 wins a year also. They actually did fairly well last year given their usual parade of injuries on offense.

Eye of the Tiger

February 15th, 2012 at 11:47 AM ^

The former make my day; the latter help me improve the diary.  

I'm a little strapped for time, so I'll respond to all the comments made above right here.

1. The F10 M5 as "return to form"

Yes, you are correct that the F10 is the first turbocharged production M5.  But the F10 is also a return to the M5's V8 roots.  If anything, that strengthens the analogy...Hoke as a turbocharged version of Carr.  At least, that's one optimistic way to look at it.  I'll make the change to reflect your factual correction.

2. Why Michigan is not a Cadillac CTS-V or other American cars

The CTS-V is a sort of engineering breakthrough for contemporary American cars...tuned as it was based on the famous Nuerburbring (apologize for lack of umlaut), a track that's at least partially responsible for all the great handling German cars.  

The problem is, the CTS-V is horribly ugly; we play in Maize and Blue and have wings on our helmets.  So I can't go there.  

The Corvette C6 ZR1 is a possible other American car to represent us, but I can't get over the fact that it's partially made of plastic.  Actually, maybe that's an appropriate analogy for our overachieving 2011 defense, but it's also not built to last and I feel like one of Hoke's strengths is creating a sustainable framework for continued success over time. An M5 will last forever, or at least a really, really long time.  

Finally, there's the Boss.  I LOVE this car, and unlike the GT500, it actually handles really well.  Very tempting, but I think muscle is a bit more MANBALL that where we're at right now.  Maybe in 2014, when our maulers patrol the lines and beating everyone to a bloody pulp, but for this particular moment in time--and the next couple years--it didn't seem to fit for me.  

3. @M-Wolverine

Yeah, the Fiat is funny looking and I'm glad you agree the Mazda is a good fit for Northwestern.  It's an inexpensive, good value sports car that does okay, but can also look really awful from certain angles, and at the end of the day, just isn't the same build quality as the muscle and high-performance cars on the list.  The other car I considered for N'Western was the Honda Civic Type-R, but they don't sell it here.

As for the Ford Focus, I love the Focus RS, but they don't sell it here either.  Arggggg...


February 15th, 2012 at 3:27 PM ^

I was talking more looks than performance, but you have the RS-

The American '12-

And looks wise I'd lean towards the American model (which is the first time, EVER for a Focus)

Which I don't see as that different design (if not performance or extras-wise close; which you'd hope for, for an extra $70k) to this-

When whatever is coming out from Porsche in that price range probably looks infinitely better.


February 15th, 2012 at 3:29 PM ^

    Coming from someone who did a diary comparing last season's games to Iron Maiden songs, I appreciate what you did here and up-voted accordingly. If I could make one suggestion to improve this diary, and this is really just a nit, but I would try to find photos of cars that are the same color as the teams. That Michigan car looks a little too grey to me. A nice Maize* or Blue would be better. Also, something green for MSU would be fitting. I think Wisconsin could also be a Hummer. Yeah, we've got 330 pound linemen and we're moving forward 4 yards at a time, try to stop us. And of course, the University of Chicago would be an Oldsmobile.

*I saw a Cobra Mustang this weekend in yellow with personalized plates that read "AGENT 23." There were M decals on the back and the seats were black leather with block M's inlaid in maize circles on the seatback. This occurred in southern California by the way.


February 15th, 2012 at 7:39 PM ^

For me, I think of Brady Hoke as a '89 Ford Taurus SHO, with an aftermarket supercharger.

The internals on the yamaha engine are all overengineered to the point where a supercharger wouldn't harm anything.  It's a 4 door family sedan, with a 7000 rpm redline.  Upon first glance, you might look away.  But if you try to hammer down vs a supercharged SHO, you will lose, and you'll never look at it the same again.

HOWEVA!  I didn't like what you did with Bielema and Dantonio being scared.  If some sleezy BRO comes up to me at a party, and shits in my drink, I'm going to say something.  Not because I'm scared of him, but because that's a shitty (pun) thing to do.  Urban Meyer is that sleezy bro, and he took a big dump in Bielema and Dantonios drinks.  He even tried to shit in Hokes drink, but little did he know, Kalis popped out and pancaked him, and Corso hopped out from behind the curtain yelling NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND.  


February 16th, 2012 at 12:03 AM ^

Agree with you on the 2nd half of your post. I would like someone to post the actual quote, in it's entirety, that qualified as complaining by Dantonio.

From what I had read, Dantonio didn't bring up the alleged 'gentelmen's agreement', nor did he complain about any direct issues with Meyer. I'm not disclaiming that it happened, I just want to know the full, unedited story...

Eye of the Tiger

February 16th, 2012 at 9:25 AM ^


"I would say it's pretty unethical," Michigan State coach Mark Dantonio said. "You ask people for a commitment, you ask for people's trust, ask for people to make a commitment to you, but then you turn around and say it's OK to go back after somebody else's commitment. That's a double standard.

"They've got a new coach, there's differences when a new coach comes in," he said. "It's a new testing of the waters, but it's a two-way street, it's always a two-way street. There's always gotta be the other person listening, too. I think when it becomes a matter of twisting somebody, when you're a 50-year-old man or 40-year-old man twisting a 17-year-old, that's when it's wrong.

"I'm not saying that's happening in the Big Ten conference, but I see that happening around the country. That happens when somebody decommits on the day of signing day and you've got to wonder about that."


He tried to backtrack from it, but it's pretty clear who and what he's talking about, no?

...and for the record, this isn't the first time we've been around this block.  Remember when RR came to Ann Arbor and got Joe Tiller and Barry Alvarez all apoplectic?  



February 16th, 2012 at 1:53 AM ^

I think Minnesota's main problem with the season was the fact that their HC was basically not there health wise for the entire season. I think Jerry Kill can coach, he just wasn't able to. Minnesota might have had it's issues as a team, but not having your leader is hard.  One thing I still think about, what if Hoke had taken the Minnesota job? They definitely went to sniff him out before Michigan. Thank goodness that man bleeds maize and blue. Otherwise those A's you gave Michigan would not be there.


February 16th, 2012 at 3:05 AM ^

Pelini reached his ceiling a few years back. Kill will bring Minnesota back to what Glen Mason had, maybe a few successful seasons every 3-4 years. Purdue will continue to do the same thing it's been doing until Coach Drew Brees arrives. Kevin Wilson might have a good offense down the road, but his D will never be very good and he just doesn't have the look of a head coach. 

I think Beckman will do very well at Illinois. He built a legit program at Toledo, almost beat Boise and Ohio last season. I actually think he'll be able to do very well with Zook's players. Since he has roots in Ohio, he'll be able to recruit there. If he can keep the talented kids from Illinois in the state he could do pretty well.