Charlie Weis as Coach at Notre Dame

Submitted by erick1100 on April 20th, 2009 at 9:58 AM

If there is one team we all ought to be rooting for aside from Michigan this autumn, it is the Golden Domers at Notre Dame. Here is hoping they find a way to sneak 9 wins out of their watery schedule this season to we aren't facing another coach in South bend.

The one thing that Weis has done very well is bring in some elite level talent that hasn't been seen since Lou Holtz. Of the many things Weis hasn't done very well, a couple of them are particularly relevant for our purposes:

1) figure out how to develop players (e.g., Sam Young anyone?) and

2) put together a good team without the prior tutelage of Ty Willingham (who I suspect after this year will be far less hated in South Bend).

I enjoy the irony when Notre Dame fans rail against Rodriguez and Michigan for going 3-9 in 2008 in his first year (Weis went 3-9 in his 3rd year and 7-6 in his 4th WITH HIS OWN PLAYERS).

And the recruiting advantage over Michigan is seriously EXAGGERATED as well. True, the '08 class saw nearly every head to head battle go to Notre Dame, but the reality is that Weis had the trump card of immediate playing time, and Rodriguez only had about a month and a half to keep the current class together and identify more recruits--many of which we weren't in direct competition with ND for, save Martavious Odoms. More telling, is the way the '09 head-to-head battles with Notre Dame unfolded: Notre Dame signed (players that we offered): Alex Bullard, Chris Watt, Zach Martin, and Shaq Evans. Michigan signed (players that ND offered): William Campbell, Anthony LaLota, Craig Roh, and Michael Schofield.

Without the "playing time" card to play, Michigan and Notre Dame split 8 recruits down the middle. And, I would prefer the 4 that Michigan signed.

The end point is that it is in the interests of Michigan football for Charlie Weis to squeak out 9 wins this year and maybe even win a bowl game so we aren't facing Urban Meyer in South Bend every other year. With Charlie Weis, Notre Dame may sign some good players, but the vertical routes will occur at predictable intervals, Clausen will still be mediocre, the play-calling will be uninventive, and Notre Dame will remain soft (remember how McGuffie got off against ND last year? In hindsight, how weird is that to think about?).

Go Blue!


His Dudeness

April 20th, 2009 at 10:51 AM ^

A) Never, ever say Go Irish.

B) We lost to ND last year, so like, yea.

C) Why wouldn't you want to play against Urban Meyer at ND every other year? I think it would be great. Soft schedules are lame as hell.


April 21st, 2009 at 5:54 PM ^

del state is ok for now when we all just want to win games but when we started winning 8+ again i don't want to play any FBS teams. i just want us to play some cool OOC games. like a really good mid-major or another big6 school. like playing for instance virginia tech or ole miss or like kansas in home and homes


April 20th, 2009 at 9:50 PM ^

elite schools like top ten nationally?
Texas, OU, USC, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, etc.?
maybe not all elite. But interesting OOC games like 'Zona, USC, Virginia, Oregon, Cal, etc. this year for the bten. notre dame is getting tedious. fwiw syracuse was good when the three big ten schools playing them this year scheduled them. OSu has played UT, USC, and I think Miami and OU are in a few years down the line.


April 21st, 2009 at 8:38 AM ^

Top five Nationally. I'm well aware that most of the "power schools" still schedule a cupcake or two, but it is also usually the reason that there is any debate over who gets into the MNC game. If USC had played (and lost) to Alabama instead of Oregon St., they would have been in the MNC. A similar argument could be made for Texas.


April 20th, 2009 at 10:58 AM ^

you are right on the "Go Irish," I'm going to edit appropriately.

However, I'm not into my rivals being elite teams. I'm into beating my rivals and I don't care whether they suck or are undefeated--they are wins against rival. Which, we haven't had too many of lately in case you haven't noticed.


April 20th, 2009 at 11:02 AM ^

I shudder at the thought of Meyer coaching Notre Dame. I have Weis at the top of my list of coaches who need to resign for the good of the game, just above Bobby Bowden and Joe Pa, but the possibility of Meyer coaching ND is so scary that I may take him off of my list.

I do think that Meyer has built such a great program in Gainesville that he may stay there the rest of his life. The weather down here is a lot better than that in South Bend, and Meyer can sneak in the occasional "questionable" recruit at Florida without having his application denied.

It would be easier to win in South Bend, though, because they don't have an SEC schedule. ND is great at cherry-picking the Big Ten, and filling out the schedule with service academies, mid-level teams, and one marquee game against USC. If the investigation of USC is serious, they will probably be a mediocre team for about five to ten years, and that will mean that ND has one truly big game a year: UM.

If the ND job does come up, Florida needs to empty the vault and make Meyer an "offer he can't refuse."


April 20th, 2009 at 12:05 PM ^

The best Notre Dame game this year (other than the Michigan game and the USC shellacking)?

When Notre Dame faces Nevada in the opener in South Bend. Mark it down. Main reason? Wolfpack tailback Use-The-Force-Luke Lippincott.

Call me crazy, but I smell an upset in this game. OK, maybe I just smell Weis' arrogance.

Irish have a comparatively easy schedule this year because games against Wash., BC, WSU, Navy, UConn and Stanford.

Potential or likely losses? Nevada, at Mich, MSU, at Pitt, USC, at Purdont.

As far as cheering for Weis, I won't.

As far as Meyer coming to Notre Dame, let it happen. I mean, has anyone ever considered how such a move, with the implied increase in regional recruiting and football competition, just might make Michigan football better?


April 20th, 2009 at 1:25 PM ^

Even if it made perfect sense to root for ND, I can't. The hatred just flows naturally out of me, and I hope they are embarrassed in every contest of any sport they play.

Anyway, what's wrong with Urban coaching up in the north? I think RR and Meyer are on roughly equal ground when it comes to mastery of college football. It could seriously invigorate the rivalry.


April 20th, 2009 at 1:31 PM ^

although don't see why Urban would go to ND. He's building an empire down in FL (a very talent rich state, as we all know) and is something of a God down there. Although to your point, some other great coach could make ND like a USC/ UF program.

As an aside, I wonder if OSU fans felt this way about Lloyd (even though Lloyd is a far, far better coach than Weiss). With Lloyd, OSU had a good, but predictable opponent, whom they could consistently beat and get solid BCS props for doing so.


Griff Cannon

April 20th, 2009 at 1:42 PM ^

I think I will let ND worry about ND.

Three of their losses came from games they had double digit leads on going into the 4th quarter. If they had known how to close they could have been 9-3. But they weren't.

This year they have a similar SOS and aren't losing too many players to graduation. Whether we like it or not they will be decent at the very least and more likely pretty good. If they fix their run game, it is going to be a really annoying year on espn

blue note

April 20th, 2009 at 2:28 PM ^

when the only time I watched them play a full game last year beside UM was when they blitzkrieged the shit out of Hawaii and

1) and as far as i can tell, the guys who did all the damage in that game (Clausen, Tate, Floyd, Allen, the tight end) are all coming back.

2) Hawaii had some serious depth issues in the secondary and a young d-line, which makes me think about our team this year.

so no, I hope Weis somehow manages to F this up , because I don't want Lo Wood and Boyd and any number of other recruits thinking ND has finally gotten over the post Holtz slump.

Coaching firings almost always bring instability and doubt and that would hurt ND a ton right now and help UM. Sure, Meyer would make them a lot better than Weis ever could in the long run, but UM is definitely better off if ND goes into a tailspin and we can profit from it from recruiting and maintaining the win % lead, etc.


April 21st, 2009 at 1:29 AM ^

Since UM signed that long term deal with ND (unfortunate imo), a good to strong ND is good for UM. Obviously it makes winning the game harder, but I don't think Martin is going to be scheduling to many other non-conference teams that have a chance to crack the Top 10 or Top 15 (let alone the Top 25). Getting ND back to where they are going 8-4/9-3 would be a plus for UM with regards to their non-conference schedule.

Having a 4-8 ND team, two mac schools and a 4th team (probably not that good, although I wish the 4th team would be a good non-bcs team or middle of the pack BCS conference school) isn't going to look that great for UM - especially if the big ten continues to be frowned upon by the rest of the nation.


April 20th, 2009 at 3:52 PM ^

how landing Urban Meyer would place them in a tailspin.

Perhaps if they swung and missed on Meyer then there would be chaotic mayhem, but otherwise... they'd be all the rage in the recruiting world...

blue note

April 20th, 2009 at 4:56 PM ^

I think you are right that Meyer might be the one coach who could instantly turn things around at ND - his stature/track record would actually make it a positive for nd in the media and there would be enough talent (in 2010) for them to compete.

However - 2 things - 1) I don't think Meyer would leave for ND after this year. I think his family wants him in FL and he feels he has more to do there.

2) if they did fire Weis and lose out on Meyer, I think it would torpedo this (2009) recruiting class and probably cause Clausen to leave for the NFL and maybe push some other players out too... and back to instability with a second tier coach who will probably have a hell of a hard time recruiting.

Overall, I think they probably go 8-4 or 9-3 and keep Weis and have similar average to BCS bowl losing seasons for the foreseeable future.


April 21st, 2009 at 11:11 PM ^

We have enough to worry about with our own team to worry about Charlie Weis's job security. If losing to Michigan gets him fired, then I hope he gets fired.

I sound like Walter Smith.


April 21st, 2009 at 11:18 PM ^

I think most people will only worry about ND this year when they visit Ann Arbor. That said, Weiss is going to stick around at ND because he'll win enough (7-8-9 wins a year should be the norm given the talent that still shows up in South Bend), and I'm not sure any coach will really be able to do more giving the limitations inherent at the school. ND is no longer in the Holtz era, when standards were a little lower and the school's cache with the nations elite was quite high. Today, there are a number of programs with at least the same profile of ND, and I doubt any coach will be able to step in and change that.


April 22nd, 2009 at 2:12 PM ^

I'm very concerned about Weis at ND. Not because of anything to do with him being a coach.

No, I am concerned with environmental sustainability. That's right. As long as Weis has a high-paying job, he'll be able to eat enough red meat to feed entire nations in a single sitting. He will continue to have a carbon footprint about as large as his ass-print... which is the equivalent of an oil refinery.


April 22nd, 2009 at 6:13 PM ^

You might say I'm biased against ND, but I don't have ANYTHING against T. WIllingham. He seems like a perfectly decent human being.

What I can't understand are: (1.) How is it that Weis has ever been hired for any job and (2.) how is it that he is able to recruit anyone to ND, given that he is the biggest douche bag I have ever heard of?

I have seen Weis speak publicly and I have read quotes from him in the press and I have never once failed to think that what he was saying was completely asinine and that he was a giant, self-obsessed, petty, insecure, and vindictive asshole.

Can anyone answer (1.) is Weis really as bad as he seems or am I missing something, and (2.) if he is as bad as he seems, how does he have a job and recruit talent to ND?

blue note

April 22nd, 2009 at 7:08 PM ^

with some members of my family who are ND fans, I think the media just plays up whatever is going on with ND good or bad to the ten millionth degree just to inflame passions with the ND lovers/haters.

My guess with the Q's - 1) He won super bowls with the Giants and Patriots, and is close with Parcells, so that is probably why he was hired. As far as being the biggest douchebag ever, people tell me he runs a big charity for mentally disabled kids and is a family oriented guy who is just bad with the press, for whatever that's worth. When I think of douchebag coaches, I think of lying types like Bobby Petrino. Or Lane Kiffin.

2) W/r/t recruiting, no idea. I think most of ND's recruiting success was after Corwin Brown came on board which is probably part of it.


April 23rd, 2009 at 1:18 PM ^

Man I sure would have loved to see Shaq Evans in the winged helmet, though. Him, Michael Floyd, and Golden Tate and going to be a pain in the ass for the next few years, no matter who is under center.

Chester Cheetah

July 6th, 2009 at 3:25 PM ^

CW will only win 8 games in the regular season, then get blasted in the bowl game.

ND will then fire him, bringing in Urban Meyer.

I have a much larger hatred for UF than I do ND (i'm an out of state student at UM from Florida) so I would much rather see ND getting better and UF doing much worse. Besides, it'd be nice to see us playing notre dame again when we're both ranked in the top 5.