3&O: Just Mortals

Submitted by CRex on December 5th, 2011 at 3:11 PM

Okay, we'll do the disclaimers first.

  • Yes, this has spoilers.  If you haven't finished 3&O, close this tab now.
  • Yes, I realize 3&O has been out for awhile.  I wanted to sit on it for a bit and gain perspective though.  3&O carries a rather heavy emotional payload, so I read it.  Set it aside, watched us win 10 games, and then reread it.  I was less suicidal the second time I read it.  If you want to complain about this kind of diary reopening old wounds, close this tab now.  
  • I'm not going to cite things with page numbers or whatever.  If I miss use a quote, call me on it.  Consider 3&O to be a heavily cited work that gets the credit for most facts.
  • It's long and doesn't have any pictures.  I'm sorry.

Now then, why am I writing this.  Because we're not entirely over RR.  We have people who still are up in their caves, wearing their turbans and engaging in the Freep Jihad.  We have people who scour every word written on the blog's mainpage and ranting at anything that might be critical of Hoke.  We have people who take praise of Hoke to be an attack on RR.  So I want to talk about the three years of sadness.  If you feel an angry rant coming on, last chance to close the tab.

Right before Bo passed he said that once he died, we'd find out whole the real Michigan Men were.  We did and it was damn ugly.

In the wake of Bo passing and RR being hired, we had three major players in Michigan football.  Lloyd Carr, Bill Martin, and Rich Rodriguez.  It would expand to 4 after MSC got involved and later Dave Brandon would replace Martin.   However the tone of the era was set by the actions of the first three.  

Lloyd Carr is the engima here.  He was successful at Michigan.  The only two coaches who had his number, Tressel and Caroll, ended up fleeing to the NFL one step ahead of the NCAA sanctions committee.  He also won a NCAA title and 78% of his B1G games.  He never lost more than 3 B1G games in a season and only finished below 3rd in the conference once.  At the same time he took a lot of heat form the fans.  Claims that he only won his ring with Moeller's players.  Heat over his Rose Bowl issues and issues handling the spread.  I still remember walking into the stadium one game and seeing an anti-Carr fan holding a sign.  It read "Osama Bin-Lloyden is destroying Michigan football".  The dude had a megaphone and was ranting.  I just had to shake my head.  Every year Tressel took him down, the fanbase got bitchier.  

Since Carr has been silent (no comments in 3&O or anywhere else for the most part since he retired) it's hard to know what he felt at retirement.  The evidence suggest he was burned out in 2006, but Martin had no replacement plan so he stayed on.  The Horror happened and the heat on Carr was turned up.  At the end of the day the best insight I have into Carr's mind comes from Bacon, who writes that Carr wanted to name his successor.  

Here I'm going to make a leap.  Carr felt like he'd accomplished a lot here and he definitely had.  However the fanbase was pretty bitchy by this point and a lot of people were happy to see Carr retire.  Basically it was a "Thanks for your service, here's your award, door is to your left" kind of retirement.  No one exactly went into mourning when Carr hung it up.  I see a potential situation where Carr felt bitter, underappreciated and not properly compensated in terms of legacy for his work.  In 3&O, Carr tells Martin that someday a MAC team was going to beat us.  Basically saying college football was getting tougher, more parity, and yet Michigan fans want to see the 100-0 scores that we'd manage in the early 1900s and when we didn't, we got bitchy.  Carr did a lot for us and we photoshopped his face on Bin Laden's body.  I can understand why the man might be bitter.  Carr ends his career wanting DeBord or English to replace him, but after his last few seasons the fanbase would go nuclear if either of them did.  Martin wisely says no to that.  Carr's legacy ends him him kind of coming close to getting run out of town, despite his body of work.  We all laugh at Minnesota for firing Mason despite his body of work, but we were dicks to Carr desite his.  (As a side note I'm using we here because we're all part of the fanbase, even the retards).  

So Carr is retired.  Burned out, but not going since he was an Assoc. AD.  Martin comes forward and coaching search begins.  Miles is ruled out early (Carr says "Hell No" and MSC backs him on it, insert various rumors about why here).  Martin screws up on a bunch of offers, Miles kind of becomes a hail mary option, Martin goes sailing and can't work his damn phone.  Carr meanwhile reaches out to RR as kind of an end around on Miles and so he is kind of naming his own successor.  Suddenly we have one of the top offensive minds in the country, a guy who won BCS games with WVU (while we lost ours), and a hot, young name in coaching.  

We also have a problem.  Carr is going off the reservation here and making first contact and from Bacon's work it carries the implication Carr did so on his own, at at the behest of Martin or MSC.  In the Bo era if you went behind Bo's back, you paid.  We're now at the point where a future Assoc AD is sneaking around behind his boss's back.  

Martin's cluelessness with personnel decisions continued.  When he interviews RR he tries to tell RR he has to keep Lloyd's entire staff.  MSC though is now taking a role in the process (post Miles clusterfuck) and shuts him down.  I want to break this down a bit though.  Martin asks RR to keep the entire staff in a meeting with RR and MSC jumps on him.  This wasn't something that Martin and MSC privately talked about on the way to the meeting.  This was the President having to slap the AD down in front of a potential new employee.  Way to plan ahead for interviews...

It also means something even worse.  Think about what Martin said.  "We love your spread and shred offense and want to hire you, by the way we want to you to keep DeBord on staff as the OC."  Think about that for a minute.  Bang your head into your desk.  Later in the meeting when RR says it will take him awhile to install his system and Martin says that's not a problem, you really have to wonder if Martin had any clue what RR's system was.  If Martin had any clue what he was getting into.  

Martin of course then lowballs RR's assistants and fails to secure Casteel.  So we arguably whiff on the second most assistant of RR's machine (I'd argue since RR is offensively minded, DC is more important than OC.  Coordinators of course are clearly more important  than posistion coaches).  We also screw up the whole firing of Carr's staff.  RR makes them wait in the hall and people like Gittelson (30 years here) are fired.  

This is a failure for everyone.  For Carr, for RR, and for Martin.  Carr's about to become the Assoc AD for football operations.  If he's so worried about his assistants getting treated fairly he should take a greater role in the process.  Martin should be finding jobs for people like Gittelson (there has to be come kind of generic title we can give him, keep him on the Michigan payroll, and reward his loyalty.  Barwis is now the man for football, we have dozens of weightrooms on the campus, we could have found Gittelson a place.  Same with the others, stuff them in some AD job until they find coaching work.  We're Michigan, we're supposed to be loyal.).  RR of course really fails at handling the firings well.  Carr of course ends up unhappy, somewhat openly advocating transfers, and the whole RR-Carr relationship goes sour.  

We know how it goes from there.  Freep columnists are harsh on RR, Carr era players attack RR in the media.  Martin does nothing public,  Carr does nothing public.  RR says the wrong things, loses games, and finally Grobans himself out of a job.  Plus of course getting bombed in the bowl didn't help.  

My reason for rehashing this 3&O content was to show the actions of people and compare them to Bo.  There was no "The Team, The Team, The Team". No concern for the players.

First off Martin flushed his legacy with the RR hire.  The man put us in the black, he built a beautiful athletic campus.  He set us up with the stadium suites that generate an amazing amount of revenue.  We have the world's largest indoor practice facility because of him.  Crisler doesn't look like shit anymore because of him (DB did it with his revenue).  We could afford to offer Harbaugh 5 million a year because of him.  We could pry Mattison out of the pros because of him.  We have a massive bank account, a massive revenue stream, and top shelf facilities because of him.  We also had the NCAA investigate us and a civil war because of his poor personal management.  If we had a comptroller hall of fame, he goes in the first round.  As it stands though he is remembered for going boating during a coaching search with a cellphone he could not operate.

I love Carr and anyone who bothers to read my posts knows I'm in the Carr defender category.  Carr has done a lot for this University.  On the field and off the field (namely his fundraising for Motts is really his greatest achievement as a human being since sick kids are a million times more important than kicking around an inflated pig's bladder).  Yet when the time came he wasn't a Michigan Man.  RR's teams were loaded with Carr's recruits.  Yet he turned down 8 chances to speak to RR's teams.  It's fine if Carr wanted to dislike RR.  RR did fire all his friends and talk a lot in public, the antithesis of Carr.  However when our fanbase errupted into a civil war it was the players, the players that Carr recruited who suffered as the program was ripped apart.  Carr must have promised these kids B1G rings when he recruited them.  Yet he shut up and didn't do anything when the program collapsed around them.  It's almost as if he told them "transfer, because I'm cutting all ties and won't be around to help you after the Bowl".  Bo was known for walking into people's offices and telling them "You need to shut up".  Bo would have been defending the kids and the program.  Carr was silent.  At best he did nothing, at worst he was using his players and contacts to undermine RR instead of help him.  I have no idea what Carr did during those three years, but he wasn't a Michigan Man because he definitely wasn't using his power to support the team.    

I'm going to be brief on RR since we've dissecting him a million times on this board.  He made a lot of mistakes on the field in terms of the defense.  Off the field he really failed to win the political battle that comes with being the head coach at a name brand football school.  Yes the deck was stacked against him, but even so he tended to make things worse, not better.  For example RR played under Nehlen, a Bo assistant.  He learned about "Those Who Stay Will Be Champions" from Nehlen and used it himself when he coached at Glenville State.  Yet he never told those stories despite the fact they instantly put him on the Bo tree and made him more acceptable.  More importantly is how quickly he broke down.  His locker room destroying rage, this "fuck you" ridden tirades over his headset when Tate made a bad play.  Yes it is projection, but you have to wonder if in year 4 or 5 he goes all Woody Hayes on a DB or Bob Knight on someone.  I don't believe RR as a person would ever do that, but people do snap.  At some level when you read how broken down RR was as Year 3 went from 5 and 0 to 2 and 5, you have to wonder if it was a mercy firing.  

What we see there are three people who aren't bad people.  Martin made us rich, Carr did a lot for the program and the school, RR wanted to make this his destination school and cared for his kids, and he did install the offense we hired him to install.  Yet everyone had their flaws.  Blindess with personnel hirings, a failure to support RR the way Bump supported Bo, and the inability to properly adopted Michigan mannerisms/fix the damn defense.  No one is the devil here or an incompetent, but no one is Bo either.

Then there is the fanbase, us.  That member of our fanbase who called a regent to complain that RR used "ain't" in a press conference (seriously, fuck you whoever that was).  The fanbase who the minute Bo died, demanded someone else become Bo.  Then when everyone showed they were mortal, not Bo, and could make mistakes we devolved into armed "Old Guard" and "New Guard" camps.  Communist football vs primitive saurian Llloydball.  We all agreed Martin was a moron who couldn't work a cell phone, picked a coach (RR or Carr) and tried to crown him as the new center of Michigan football.  We also didn't exactly cover ourselves in glory.

That's what we need to take away from the RR era.  Our dad died.  Uncle Lloyd turned out be a distant and cold paternal figure.  Uncle Rodriguez went through a rough time and had a melt down.  Uncle Martin was busy clicking buttons in excel.  So a lot of the fanbase regressed from Michigan Men into bitchy children who said mean things on the radio or wrote them, despite the negative impact they had on The Team.  

As we enter the new era, 10-2, now willing to pay top dollar for top coordinators, with a guy who gets Michigan, and RR has a new job in a BCS conference, I think it may be time to let it go.  At the end of the day we don't have a good guy and we don't have a bad guy.  Martin, Carr, and RR all did a lot for this school and they all failed it.  Any debate where you try to annoint one guy as the devil and one guy as the angel in this era is just going to generate a flamefest because each side has plenty of material to cite.  The actors here were all humans who were successful in some areas, but unlike Bo they weren't successful in every area.  No one was bad, they just weren't Bo and that is fine because being Bo is a high standard to live up to.  As we go forward we need to stop looking for a new Bo.  Bo's dead.  But a new one will emerge.  Just as it flowed from Yost to Crisler to Bo.  Don't try and place someone on that throne by force though.

We should also remember how a house divided cannot stand against itself and more importantly how we hurt the players on the field with the whole civil war.  We owe people like Graham and Moundros something.  They gave it all on the field on Saturday while the fanbase was busy having a flamewar.  

Oh and always remember Sharp and Rosenberg suck.  

If we're going to keep one thing in our mind as we move forward, it should be that comment from Bo about how we'd find out who the real Michigan Men were when he died.  We did and we need to remember what that cost us.  It's up to us to keep it together now, because we won't have Bo to walk into our lives and tell us "You need to shut up now".  



December 5th, 2011 at 11:09 PM ^

My name is MgoSoftball and I am over RR.  It took a long time, and lot of tears, and countless bottles of Jack, but I am officially RR free.

I remember watching my first football game ever on TV.  It was a 19" black and white.  We only got channels 2, 4, 7 and occasionally 9 if the wind was blowing just right.  There was no such thing as a remote control.  I was watching it with my dad and I was the remote control.  I had to go hit the side of the TV when a tube would warm up and lose contact. 

It was November 1969.  I still remember my dad saying "there is no way Michigan is going to win.  The other team could beat most professional teams."  Then about 5 minutes left he said, "That son of a bitch is going to beat those rednecks."  I was hooked and watched just about every game since (either TV or in person).

Originally I did not like the RR hire. I got cought up in the whole, "not from the Bo tree".  My preference was Miles but I knew LC could NEVER forgive Miles for getting Mo fired (In his mind).  At some point we have to forgive but never forget.

I get it.  Miles is out.  however, Martin had no fucking clue.  How do you NOT know how to work a new cell phone?  All he had to do was ask any 12 yo on the corner to help him.  Martin was avoiding it and hoped it all worked itself out. LC resigned after the Appy loss and wasnt going to announce until the end of the year.  Every successful businessman as a succession plan. 

Martin was a joke.  He could raise money.  He could sell seats.  He could build luxury boxes.  But he could not run an AD.  Just ask any of the people that work in the AD.

How the hell Martin hire RR over DeBord?  I agree, DeBord would have had a bumpy road but it would have been better than RR.  Hell even English was a better hire. 

But RR was hired.  I supported him 100%.  He did not help himself.  Hire Wolverine Historian, John Bacon, or just about any M Club member to "teach" him about the history and tradition.  RR thought he could come in and "do his thing" and "to hell with tradition".  When RR was asked about the whole "Michigan Man" thing, that answer proved he was lost. 

I came to support RR.  I saw that LC abandon RR and the school.  He went to Iowa and sat with their president?  WTF?  He can have friends with anyone he wants.....except on football Saturday.  Why didnt he go Wednesday and have lunch with her?  He was making a statement. 

LC was pissed that he wasnt annointed the next Bo.  After all he did, he was just never fully appreciated.  Get over yourself Lloyd.  You are not Bo and NEVER will be.  I liked LC until all the BS he pulled after he retired. 

LC spoke at my daughter's HS graduation.  I taped it and transcribed every word.  He is a dedicated human but just could not get over how M fans treated him.

I wanted RR to stay.  I knew Harbaugh would never get approved by MSC.  The real demon is Mr David Brandon.  I have one question for DB.  Mr Brandon, who is lying, you or Denard?  Denard said he tried on several occasions to speak to DB.  Then DB said he has an "Open Door policy" and he always listens to the players.

DB could NEVER allow RR to stay.  He let RR hang himself so he could deflect the heat when it came time to cut and run.  DB is young and wants to be AD for 30 years.  He could not allow RR to stay.  RR is NOT his guy. 

So who is a Michigan Man?

Bo, Mo, Debord, English, John Falk, Scheffler, Hoke and RR:  YES

Miles: qualified Yes

LC, Harbaugh, Martin:  Cant do it.  Sorry, sad but true.

DB: No, how can a bald-faced liar be in this group?


I wonder how successful RR would have been this year?  I wonder if that is all he needed to ge the monkey off  his back?  But RR is at 'Zona and I am happy for him.  I hope he wins a NC and vindicates himself. 

Now that we have turned that page in the MGoHistory Book, Hoke is showing signs of being the next best thing to Bo.  History is a funny thing.  Just when we needed a true leader, one arrives.  I will have to see more from Hoke to make sure he runs a clean program, forces the kids to study and stay away from women, er, trouble. 

I hope Hoke has no quirks or any bad habits, like a 2am trip to 8 mile.  He seems all business and he certainly gets it.  But lets give Hoke 4 more years.  Lets evaluate him in the totality of 5 games.  If he can get to BCS games in 3 of the 5, he is a keeper and I will pass the Yost, Crisler, Oosterbann, Elliott, Bo, Mo cloth to him. 

Go Blue








December 5th, 2011 at 11:56 PM ^

Haven't read the book--I'm waiting for the movie.  Having said that, I have read every diary and post referencing 3 and out.  The whole RR tenure at Michigan turned out to be a fiasco, and it was due, what seems in retrospect, to have been almost a perfect storm of contributing factors, any one of which, if changed, could have led to at least a marginally different outcome. There is blame enough to go around. I'm just glad that sad chapter is over.  At the end of the day, it is best for both Michigan and Rodriguez that he is no longer here, and that's good enough for me.

Mr. Robot

December 6th, 2011 at 12:28 AM ^

The only one in this story that gets truely screwed is Rodriguez. He got 90%+ of the heat, and he got precisely zero help dealing with it, from a PR standpoint, a payroll standpoint (no contracts for the assistants? REALLY?!), or any other point, really.

Fact is, we baited a really good coach who cares deeply for his players into leaving his dream job at his alma mater just so he could ultimately have his life torn to pieces. Then we had the gull to make him believe we weren't going to fire him so we could pay him less on the buyout and make it less likely the players leave, at the expense of his pocketbook and his employment status for the last year.

RR made his mistakes, but none of them were things we couldn't accuse Carr of doing (Bad coordinators made to look good by awesome players). We gave him the biggest screw job It hink any coach has ever gotten, and it embarasses me to think MY school did it to him. If we ever play Arizona in the Rose Bowl, I won't even feel bad if we lose. We kind of deserve it. If anybody on this board ever meets him down the road, they owe it to him to apologize for what we did to him and wish him well. I know I will.

blue in dc

December 6th, 2011 at 12:04 PM ^

WV did not seem like it was still his dream job when he left. Also, if Loyd had really wanted to retire after 2006 season, you don't think he got screwed too? He gave up an extra year of his life, has to live with what the Appy State loss did to his legacy and also has to live with the cupboard is bare crap when he asked to walk away before The horror and leaving the new coach a team with Henne, Hart et al.
<br>Also RR's got a rough life. We paid him $1.5 million not to work, why should I feel sorry about that?
<br>While RR had some big challenges, he also had some big opportunities. RR is the one that failed to hire a good defensive staff, not Loyd.
<br>I wish RR the best, but I don't see why As an alum I need to apologize to him because he was unable to overcome some challenges to succeed when given a tremendous opportunity.
<br>Just as I do with any team Michigan plays, if we play them, I hope we kick their ass.