Vicious Electronic Questioning: Revolutionary War II Edition Comment Count

Brian June 10th, 2010 at 1:02 PM

World Cup content ahoy. The below is a conversation with War Blog Eagle proprietor, guy who is basically dog blood comprised of 90% cocaine during the first round of the NCAA tournament, and gracious host for the MGoRoadtrip to Auburn-LSU Jerry Hinnen. If you're trolling for more WC content, Stars and Gripes remains highly recommended, and I'd add the Shin Guardian to that list despite the fact that more than one of their contributors advocates a Robbie Findley start on Saturday.

I'm in bold; Jerry is plaintext.

So I know that after this whole Demar Dorsey thing you're ready to think about something totally non-stressful and anti-depressing. Let's talk about the U.S. central defense! Do we battle Wayne Rooney with the guy who plays (regularly!) in Norway and spearheaded the defensive "effort" against Mexico in the 5-0 Gold Cup loss? Or the guy who hasn't played more than 45 minutes since October and runs like your grandfather?

Probably the guy who not only runs but looks like my grandfather, if my grandfather was Greg Oden. As soon as Onyewu sprouted that hellacious neckbeard it was like it had always been there. Bradley said he was ready to go 90, and while that might be a smokescreen the USA backline actually started clearing crosses before they hit the ground when he came in against the Aussies.

With England seemingly set to start Emile Heskey, strength will be at a premium over speed, and it's not like Goodson is that quick or agile anyway. I think you deploy two destroyers in front of the central D and hope.

What would you do? Leave a comment below!

Ives, I agree. If Slovenia or Algeria were the opening match, I'd advise playing it safe with Goodson and giving Onyewu another few days to get the beard up to "Eliminator" standards. But England is the damn-the-torpedoes, high-variance, all-or-nothing match. Onyewu's ceiling is so many thousands of miles higher than Goodson's.

Plus Demerit seems to not be suffering a prolonged seizure when Gooch is out there, too, plus plus thanks to B. Bradley's marathon training sessions--as in "let's be fit enough to run one"--we may be OK burning a sub in central defense if we have to. So that's one of the two big lineup questions. The other: who are your forwards?

OriginalHaHa Brian Ching and Jozy. HA-ha!

No, seriously: send Bornstein home with a bruised ego and bring in Ching. Seriously. No foolies.

Do I hear a second? Sustained.

Failing that, I would go with Jozy and Dempsey because I'd rather have Holden on the field than Buddle. Given Buddle's ability to score goals when they are put on a plate, though, I'd be okay with having him start if you're dead set on having Dempsey in the midfield.

Findley: absolutely not. I will be stabby if he gets 90.

What, you're not interested in having his speed stretch the defense? But the defense! It'll be stretched! Because of his speed! That's far more important than his ability to, you know, score in an empty net from three yards.

To be fair, one of those was from like... eight yards.

You're right, I'm being too harsh on the guy who scored once in 12 MLS games this year. Me, I start Altidore and Buddle. Dempsey just seems so much more comfortable starting in midfield and moving up later, and for my money "how can we get the most out of Dempsey?" is a more important question than the Buddle/Holden dilemma. Besides, dude, Buddle was visited by some sort of magical goalscoring fairy last offseason.

Or something.

I won't be mad if it's Buddle-Altidore. I will only be mad if Findley starts. I can see him as a 60th minute sub against an old and creaky English defense, but that's all. I mean, aren't Jozy and Buddle somewhat close to his speed?

Yes. They are not slow. I wonder if Bradley believes they are because they are not short.

You left out one positional debate: midfielder who is not Bradley.

Who should start next to Bradley? Leave your thoughts below!

We can discuss our choice for not-Bradley defensive midfielder, but I'll eat a raw egg if it's not Clark. Donovan said after the Aussie match B. Bradley had used it to get his guys used to playing 90 at altitude. That Clark played that 90 (until his weird hamstring/thigh injury that no one is allowed to talk about, ever, for some weird reason) tells me it's not even a matter of debate.

Does that bother you at all? Clark sucked against Turkey. Pulling him off for Torres turned that game around. Against Australia the midfield provided almost no resistance, leaving the back four exposed. He's supposed to be a destroyer but I don't remember one tackle from the friendlies. How effective can Clark be if he's not even picking up yellows? I don't even know if that's a joke.

He was balls against Turkey but I think you're selling him a little short against the Aussies; he wasn't great, but he had a handful of decent plays, and he played the cross-field ball to Cherundolo that set him up for the run-and-cross to Buddle.

I'd start Edu myself, but I don't think England is the right game for Torres. Because jobs No. 1, 1a, 1b, and 1c for whoever starts alongside Bradley are: Mark Frank Lampard. Possession is awful nice, we all know that, but taking Lampard out of the game and unshackling Bradley from that kind of dirty work might be even nicer. If you disrupt Lampard, maybe Gerrard has to come forward to try and get something going in the middle, maybe now we've got even more space on the counter for Bradley. I think Edu could manage that assignment and give us some ball control, but I'm all right with Clark.

I'm just leery of Clark because he's basically Onyewu. He has hardly played since the end of the last MLS season. The difference in the midfield is that the US has options. Edu's battled injury problems of his own but got some significant run for Rangers towards the end of the season and just looks more ready to play. I know some of the soccer insider folks have been suggesting he will start and Clark's friendly experience was an effort to get him fitness, fitness that Edu already has. I'm hoping that's the case.

I agree that the US will be playing to absorb pressure and will be thrilled with a draw, so Torres will not and should not start. If the US is behind at the half, I think he might be a quick sub, but that's only if things aren't going well.

Here's to hoping the insiders are right. I'm not losing sleep over Clark (not more than I'm already losing anyway), but there's loads more potential for a transcendent, England-beating performance with Edu.

There's seems to be a growing consensus out there that Torres needs to start against Slovenia and Algeria, though. We're part of that consensus, right? Is anyone not?

I am so on-board with that consensus. Going back to the "form" argument, Torres has logged a ton of time for Pachuca, way more than the other viable options. He takes pressure off a central defense that will feature Demerit and someone who is not Bocanegra. Bocanegra is pretty good with the ball at his feet and takes pressure off his central defense partner when he's in the middle; when he's not the US has hoofers. Having Torres drop back to pick up possession, relieve pressure, and release freakily accurate balls to attacking players makes the US way more likely to score from the run of play.

You and I are charter members of the Jose Torres fan club, though. At halftime of the Costa Rica game in CR we were ready to fly down there and scream at Bradley for yanking Torres at the half.

I don't know if I've ever been more confused by any coach I've followed, in any sport, than Bob Bradley. He makes so many decisions that make me think a ferret with a Ouija board could do better. But the results are there: 1st in the Hex. Confed Cup finalists. Even these two friendlies; 2-1 over Turkey and 3-1 over Australia (both of those teams something close to their respective A-sides) are light years ahead of what we saw in the '98, '06, and even '02 run-ups. I can't decide if I want to hug him or strangle him. Maybe start to hug him and turn it into a strangle.

In any case: no more ambivalence after Saturday, which is nice. You on the panic side or the 1776 all over again side?

I'm not expecting a win. That Onyewu injury is haunting. Right after everything with the Confed Cup that got him the Milan transfer, a meaningless game against Costa Rica, the injury... the total lack of field time... I mean, I think the US is a good bet to score against England but unless Timmah puts on a Spain-like show I think they're going down.

My personal prediction is a 2-2 draw with the U.S. going up 2-1 early in the second and just barely--like, batting cage-style bombardment on Howard's goal--hanging on for the point. I'm thinking we really need a point at least, though, because I've to the conclusion that Slovenia could be nightmarish. It's _so_ easy to see an early mental lapse in defense, a 1-0 deficit, and 80 minutes of useless pounding away at the same defense that did just that to Russia. (Russia as coached by Guus Hiddink, nonetheless.) Tell me why that won't happen. Please? I'm begging you. Seriously, I'm on my knees here.

Russia doesn't have Jose Torres.

No, just Andrei Arshavin.

I cannot tell you anything about Slovenia other than the vague overviews, but that's totally possible. The US is only 56% to advance according to Nate Silver's crazy computer, but the Slovenians are just going to sit back and hope, really. Their defense is fantastic; their offense is piddling. I think that's the game Torres comes in and maintains possession like a mofo.

That video does fill me with hope. Still, I think the most likely path to progression for U.S. remains England draw, Slovenia draw, Algeria win, five points is good for second. I do think progression is the most likely outcome, since Slovenia (despite my worries) and Algeria are still Slovenia and Algeria. But thanks to the defense, I'm still clutching my knees to my chest and singing Amazing Grace to myself twice daily.

What do you think of the U.S.'s chances of getting out of the group? Leave your thoughts in the comments below!

I'd rather look at the broader picture with Slovenia: they had a weak group and bombed out of Euro '08. Algeria is widely regarded as the weakest team outside of the pure minnows (North Korea, New Zealand, and Honduras) and may be eliminated already. And England has a rich history of wobbly play. I do think Silver is about right and the US is only 60-40 to get out of the group, but 60-40 isn't bad.

But there is nothing that can possibly calm my nerves. What if they played college football once every four years and made the season 3-6 games? You would die, and nothing could prevent you from doing so. Thus the World Cup.

There is something both soul-crushingly horrible and soul-stirringly fantastic about being the kind of soccer fan--a species I'm going to hyperbolically claim is unique to the U.S., and which I believe represents the both of us--who love the sport, never attached themselves to a club side for geographic reasons, and root exclusively for the national side. Our team plays, essentially, three games that matter every four years. They mean absolutely everything. There is no next year, no fallback, no safety net of a club for our investment as fans. Defeat is unbearable. But victory a la 1994 or 2002 is ... it's hard to describe. I mean, remember the Portugal game? My dog could have been run over by the girl who wouldn't go out with me in seventh grade and I'd have written her a check for tire damage. Or something.

I do. That was the greatest day of soccer fandom ever for me, because I was in Ireland and the next game was the famous 1-1 draw with Germany that basically put the Irish through to the second round. May some day this month equal it.



June 10th, 2010 at 1:13 PM ^

it is boring as hell.  When your idea of a great soccer match is a 0-0 tie, then you need to get out of the house more.  The reasons the fans get out of hand, riot, and destroy things when fortunes don't go their teams way is because they're actually bored into hysteria. 

I love a good defensive struggle in football and I can appreciate a 0-3 football game becuase their is a lot of defense that goes into such a game and I understand that on a different level than I do soccer.  I have tried to watch soccer matches and understand or care about what is going on in the game, but i just can't get into it.  It's akin to watching pornos starring all fat girls; you know there is sex going on but it's just not sexy and therefore doesn't grab your attention. 

Maybe soccer is just beyond the reaches of my cognitive processes.


June 10th, 2010 at 1:31 PM ^

It definitely is not boring as hell.  If you don't know what they are doing or why they are doing it's gonna look like they are just out their kicking the ball around.  I personally love soccer and even though I'm a mexico fan I hope the US get out of their group at minimum to help the CONCACAF get some recognition.


June 10th, 2010 at 1:42 PM ^

Soccer is incredibly popular in the US.  More youth play here than in any country except China.  More World Cup tickets were sold in the US this year than in any other county.  The US TV rights were the most expensive in the world, and ESPN and Univision are televising every game live.  More Americans watched the 2006 Italy-France final than the NBA Finals that year.  Stop trafficing in tired cliches and ignorance.

Arizona Blue

June 10th, 2010 at 1:33 PM ^

I am that fan. I have my case of Sam Adams beer ready. My American Flag. And my Donovan Jersey. Please God dont destroy my dreams in every sport that I love.

Tshimanga Cowabunga

June 10th, 2010 at 1:35 PM ^

You've got questions, I've got (my) answers.

1. Start Onyewu and just hope that he is healthy enough. The balls that were coming down against turkey and australia will be finished by the likes of Rooney, Crouch etc.

2. Findley and Buddle obviously! Kidding. Gotta be Altidore and Buddle at this point. Buddle has played himself into the starting lineup against Australia and in the MLS and has good chemistry with Donovan that could result in some chances. He can also (seemingly) finish a lot better than Findley. Personally, I would be bringing Gomez off the bench first as a striker over Findley because he has a knack for goals and seems in form. Leave Dempsey to attack from the midfield position and move up late if need be.

3. Clark will start but I would prefer Edu against England and Torres against Slovenia and Algeria. Why Edu over Clark? I'm not exactly sure I just like Edu more. Obviously Torres' possession will help against teams that we're expected to hold the ball against (when that isn't our strong suit).

Prediction? Lose to England, Draw to Slovenia, Beat Algeria and hope we get by on goal differential. I back up my predictions in no way, shape or form tho


June 10th, 2010 at 1:38 PM ^

A draw would be a great start to this year's run. My recurring nightmare spelled out above is that the Three Lions will score early (Roo) and the remaining 80 minutes will be quite torturous. Here's hoping a banged up English backline will yield a few opportunites that the US must put away.

How great is it that the site I read everyday for my maize and blue fix also provides such excellent futbol analysis.

Mgoblog...ruining productivity one fan at a time


June 10th, 2010 at 1:51 PM ^

I could watch that "remember June 24th" video over and over again. Most people have probably seen it but here's another good world cup promo:


June 10th, 2010 at 1:52 PM ^

Technically, this is probably more like Revolutionary War III (War of 1812 was quite literally RW II, as losing it could have given the Brits control of the colonies again).  You could call the 1950 matchup in World Cup action RW III and this RW IV, but that's leading down a slippery slope.


June 10th, 2010 at 2:13 PM ^

Jose Torres love from Brian is making my brain, heart, and genitals simultaneously explode...but I fear that you are paving the way for all of his limbs to snap in half.

If you don't feel like you're really getting into soccer, it might be because you're not trying hard enough. I feel that you have to completely immerse yourself in the game, the storylines, and the players to fully appreciate the sport. Hopefully then you'll start to pick up on the small, intense battles throughout the game that make it so fun to watch.


June 10th, 2010 at 2:30 PM ^

goosebumps man goosebumps ...

spain was the greatest win for me personally just cause i was a bit young in 2002 to fully understand the magnitude of the portugal win

i went bat shit crazy during the spain game last yr ... i cant wait


June 10th, 2010 at 2:55 PM ^

I want Gooch to start with DeMerit. England is going to play either Heskey or Crouch with Rooney and either way we need someone to win the balls in the air.


I would start Altidore and Donovan up front for a couple of reasons. First, we can keep Dempsey on the wing where he is more effective. It also gets Holden on the field in place of a 2nd true forward. This will give us an extra man in the center of midfield with Donovan tracking back (I'd have him take whatever center mid England plays deepest), leaving less space for Gerrard to cut into (assuming he starts on the left as he was in WC qualifying) and hopefully forcing Rooney to come deep for the ball. If Rooney tracks back we can play a higher defensive line as Heskey/Crouch are not fast enough to be a big threat over the top, further compressing space in the middle.

Our offense will have to come on the counter with the wings exploiting space left by Glen Johnson and Ashley Cole. I would give Donovan a free role when we're on offense, he could overload a wing or play in the middle which is where he was for a good part of the Aus game anyways.


I really really want Edu over Clark. He's better on the ball and Clark has seemed pretty ineffective as of late. When we win the ball we need to counterattack at speed and I think Edu gives us a better chance of doing that while still providing steel to the midfield (though Torres actually defended well in the friendlies). I wouldn't mind seeing Torres against Algeria/Slovenia as well as potentially in the 2nd half of the England game if we need more offense.


June 10th, 2010 at 3:11 PM ^

He got pulled from that game because he was absolutely terrible defensively, and the CMs have to be responsible defensively in an empty bucket 4-4-2. Torres has looked good defensively recently though. He was going into tackles strong and not pussing out like he was last year.


June 10th, 2010 at 4:11 PM ^


oh fuck you're being serious? Like really serious? I defend soccer a lot, but come on. You have to be joking... the NHL just drew a 6.5/10 overnight for Game 6. The highest rated soccer games in this country's history draw like a 1/10. Soccer's made some big strides but let's not get fucking crazy here.


June 10th, 2010 at 3:19 PM ^

At first, because I skipped the first part, I thought this was the Brian's alter ego and Brian bit. I was much disappointed when I scrolled up and saw it was a real conversation.


June 10th, 2010 at 3:35 PM ^

is that you have other matches to watch in between the World Cup matches. Although honestly it's not just a three-match season: it's more like an NHL season when you follow a good team, in that the "regular season" isn't terribly important as long as you don't lose too many stupid games and then not even qualify for the real thing ... no real satisfaction from winning them (except maybe a bit from winning the qualifying group) but horror from losing.

The disadvantage is that the team falls into one of two categories:

Elite. In this group, rather than three matches every four years that define your season, you have a bunch of them. Your side must finish high in the table (or even win, depending on the league). They must qualify for Europe. They must reach the group stage. They must reach the knockout stage. Even there, you generally feel they must win a certain number of matches, usually depending on how far they advanced last time. (I had to check with some friends about this part.)

Non-elite. In this group, there are still only three matches every four years that define your season. You have no hope of ever winning a league because only elite sides can do this. You have no hope of ever winning a tournament anyone cares about because only elite sides do this. (There are very few exceptions, I suppose.) Your side may actually qualify for the Europa League, but even if they do they will likely be demolished by an elite or near-elite side who failed to qualify for the Champions League and are pissed about it.

One day, your club may be bought by a multi-billionaire who wants to see if he can make the club elite before it goes into administration, but until then, you must content yourself with the occasional league defeat of an elite team. (3-1 over Chelsea! Woot!)

So, uh, yeah, there really isn't an advantage.


June 10th, 2010 at 3:43 PM ^

Not that this cripples England, but having their captain and star defender Rio Ferdinand injured a week or so ago has to hurt their chances a bit and increase our chances in the opener.  He is out for the entire tournament.


June 10th, 2010 at 10:59 PM ^

...growing for Revolutionary War II (or III or IV).  The Confederation's Cup video is only making it worse.  Saturday afternoon can't come soon enough. 

Can you beat the U.S.? 
We say, Hell no!" 
Can you beat the U.S.? 
We say, Hell no!"

Sing it at home or in your local watering hole.


June 10th, 2010 at 10:44 PM ^

I'd forgotten just how thoroughly we kicked Spain's ass in the first half. It wasn't as if we were scoring against the run of play; we had a half-dozen near misses before we finally got on the board.


June 11th, 2010 at 7:39 AM ^

...Filip Bondy has some fun at England supporters expense in this column that appears in the London Evening Standard. 

I have been assigned the rather simple task of riling up you English types with an arrogant American prediction of your undoing on the Rustenburg football pitch come Saturday.

This I can do with drone-like precision, having visited your shores on many occasions and therefore studied your sporting pessimism and paranoia in great detail.

England fan comments are funny, especially when reacting to the first commentor, Dwight in Brooksville, Mississippi.

You English should stop polluting other peoples countries and just stay home on your damp island with your warm beer and yellow teeth.

We're gonna kick your butts tomorrow!