Unverified Voracity Will Punch You In The Internet

Submitted by Brian on October 20th, 2008 at 4:15 PM

The Po-lice? Dude, keep your hockey players away from the football team: several counties of the internet are murmuring about an incident in East Lansing that's something like a super-sized version of the Milano-Kampfer fight/suplexing. Supposedly there was a house party, a major brawl involving a couple dozen people, and police involvement. Since this is the internet, this could all be wrong—tomorrow a plesiosaur with a shotgun will figure in somehow—but there's been a lot of independent chatter on this. Something happened.

Will suspensions result? Was anyone more important than a tenth-string walkon involved? If Hoyer was forcibly benched would Michigan State fans even regard that as a loss? Stay tuned!

Let not the words you critique influence your argument. So last week I linked to a post from the summer which downplayed the possibility Michigan would reprise Notre Dame's hideous 2007 season, causing Rakes of Mallow to link to it and mock it:

I found it odd that no one in Wolverine Land could see what was coming this season.  They witnessed what happened to Notre Dame all last season - a massive loss of personnel unable to be overcome by idiot fans screaming in the preseason "We'll still win nine games, we're [INSERT NAME OF SCHOOL HERE]!" - then looked that fate in the eye and made another asinine comment.

Of course, if Rakes had actually read the damn post:

So why won't this happen? First... it might. Michigan is unlikely to sink to the horrific depths Notre Dame did solely because of math -- hooray Gaussian distributions -- but failing to reach a bowl would be a real blow to the internet argument capabilities of Michigan fans. And that's totally within the realm of possibility.

A season like Tressel's initial foray at Ohio State -- a bleh 7-5 that would have been 6-6 without John Navarre's exceptional generosity -- is well within the realm of possibility. And by that I mean "is the most likely outcome."

So, yeah, Rakes has gone back to a post he would never have seen again if I hadn't brought up that I was wrong and then vastly exaggerated the degree of confidence I had in the season—and this was before I had any idea that Nick Sheridan would play extensively. Low, man.

Meanwhile, those levelheaded ND fans are saying Michigan "might have to fire Rodriguez this year."

I have been talking about myself. A Flint Journal writer with one o' them MLive blogs asked me a few questions, and I answered them.

Buckle buckle. The Daily Reports (via the LA Times) that Mitera's injury is the big one:

The Los Angeles Times reported Wednesday that Mitera suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee during Friday's first-period collision.

Mitera and his family still haven't made a decision about surgery. Wait. What?

“We really haven’t come to a decision yet,” Ken said. “It’s going to be another couple of weeks. We really want to look to the doctors’ advice and see what they feel is in Mark’s best interest in the long term.”

Can you play on a torn ACL? Oregon quarterback Dennis Dixon moved up to an 0.5 Norris when he played (and ran for a 50-yard touchdown) on a torn ACL last year against Arizona, but the lingering memory of Dixon from that game is his knee buckling hideously at some random point—no one touched him—and Dixon's dad helping his crying son to the locker room.

So… yeah. Torn ACLs seem like a bad idea. Maybe it's different in hockey, but probably not. I'm guessing he goes with the surgery and is done as Wolverine. Sad face.

At least he can't whiff a block. Carson Butler is now a defensive end:

Earlier in the week, tight end Carson Butler , who has moved down the depth chart and is behind Kevin Koger and Mike Massey , asked to move to defensive end. …

"He ain't playing tight end, because Kevin Koger is the starter at tight end, and Mike Massey is the backup," Rodriguez said.

…"and we've got like ten other guys, too, thanks Lloyd."

Etc.: Rodriguez interviewed by Dennis Dodd; the WCHA thinks the tourney change is stupid.



October 20th, 2008 at 4:24 PM ^

We're still not as bad as that Notre Dame team from last year.  They didn't have positive rushing yards for the season until game #4.  That is historic ineptitude.  Ours is just historic for Michigan, but ordinary as crappy teams go.

Anonymous Coward (not verified)

October 20th, 2008 at 4:28 PM ^

Probably, I'm guessing at least one starter, it's only a real loss if Hoyer's suspended for the game, Cousins gets knocked out, and MSU is left with zero scholarship QB, and goes to Aaron Bates the punter as a third string QB.

Anonymous Coward (not verified)

October 20th, 2008 at 4:35 PM ^

I'm a PSU fan married to an ND grad and spend a lot of time reading your site. There is no way I can read in a lack of confidence that you were going to be "OK" in your original post. It reads precisely like the kind of misplaced confidence the ND fans had. It would be hard for it to be much closer without Weis actually eating RichRod.

(After we dismantled them last year, even With Morelli, they insisted they'd beat us if we played again in November - I don't see THAT level of delusion from you guys, yet, so at least you win there. Woo!?)

a non emu

October 20th, 2008 at 5:01 PM ^

are nasty. I am currently 4 months out of ACL reconstruction surgery. I tore mine almost 3 years ago, and put off surgery because it was right before I had to move to Michigan to start grad school. You don't notice it much, but every once in a while my knee would painfully "give out" on me (think Dixon when walking down a slope, getting out of a bus etc). I wasn't much of an athlete and so managed. But, finally, one day my knee gave out when I was in the shower, slipped and knocked myself out. That scared me, and I finally got surgery done at Michigan (they have an amazing MedSport staff by the way). The PTs at UoM are nuts though!! I guess they are used to working with football players. Definitely NOT an out-of-shape-engineer friendly regimen :)

The only way he would be able to play is he strengthened the surrounding muscles to the point where the buckling is no longer a serious risk every time he takes the ice. But, he runs the risk of developing early arthritis (like I have) in the joint, and tearing other stuff inside in the knee (like I did). From a long term perspective it is probably better if he gets it done now.

 EDIT - ACLs are probably just as important in hockey. They stabilize the joint when an athlete is making sudden changes in direction, or rapid cuts - essentially holding the joint in place rather than let it move with the shifting momentum. You lose overall stability and the ability to make cuts without an ACL. Hockey definitely has rapid changes in direction.. and these changes are being done on a couple of thin blades :)

Anonymous Coward (not verified)

October 20th, 2008 at 8:51 PM ^

i didn't know i had torn my acl in 1985, but two weeks later, i was playing football in gym class and officially shredded what was left of it.

i used a brace for the next 4 years, 'cause i was too young to have reconstructive surgery.  every time i would land on my knee or cut, i would pop it out of joint - painful.  by 1989, i had destroyed the menisci, too, and had no choice but to reconstruct it.  it'll never be 100% again

i won't play football anymore, but i do play rec hockey.  i don't have too much trouble, but i'm a hack.  while i'm not a top-conditioned athlete, i seriously doubt that a torn acl will withstand the cutting and turning in hockey. 

i hope he fixes it now, before he loses the option of fixing it.


October 20th, 2008 at 5:19 PM ^

I had a friend who played on 2 torn ACLs in Club hockey.  Its not the same competition, but the amount of games is the same.  I can see Mitera doing it, but geez its a big risk for him.


October 20th, 2008 at 5:52 PM ^

I believe Olie the goalie once tried to play through a Torn ACL and the attempt lasted about one period. Read this years ago in one of those "hockey players are infinitely tough" articles that people like to write, but google has not provided confirmation.

chitownblue (not verified)

October 20th, 2008 at 7:05 PM ^

While the posters on RCMB may be crazy, the admins are generally overly-responsible, and have been censoring out every mention of a specific name. What I have gleaned, from the RCMB admin, is that MSU's AD put out a statement saying there was a fight and it's being investigated. Rumors says it involved football and hockey players, and it is being investigated. From other posters on the thread, and this is comple rumor, is that AJ Sturges, a sophomore defenseman on the hockey team, is in the hospital in stable condition.


October 20th, 2008 at 7:23 PM ^

The irony of moving Butler to DE is the head slap. I mean anyone remember the patented Deacon Jones headslap??? Butler is notorious for it! Whether it be knocking fools out in the dorm room or helmet slapping Notre Dame players. I'm sure Rich and McGee had a good laugh with the move to DE. If you go here you can read about it or i'll just paste it below:http://everything2.com/e2node/Deacon%2520Jones

About Deacon Jones: His signature move was the "head slap" -- where he would bitch-slap the opposing offensive lineman right smack in the helmet, allowing him to get by the lineman and attack the ball-carrier. (If you've ever worn a helmet, even a light helmet slap causes a very unpleasant ringing sensation. The NFL eventually outlawed the practice.)




Sounds Like Mr. Carson Butler to me!  

Anonymous Coward (not verified)

October 20th, 2008 at 7:10 PM ^

MSU Issues Statement About Incident Involving Athletes from More Than One Team on Early Sunday Morning…

“We are aware of on off-campus incident that occurred early Sunday morning. The MSU Athletics Department is cooperating fully with East Lansing Police in its open investigation.”

-From MSU Associate AD for Communications John Lewandowski

The athletes involved are from more than one team. More coming….


October 20th, 2008 at 7:23 PM ^

that there was indeed a donnybrook between the football and hockey team, apparently the football team sent 5 icers to the hospital and one of them has a fractured cranium.  Milano must have been visiting with some of his high school buddies.

k bizzle

October 20th, 2008 at 11:48 PM ^

But I'm glad to see that Mywan Jackson has set an official visit up.  Would be great to get him and hear all the people go "oh no not another 3 star 170lbs guy!"

Anonymous Coward (not verified)

October 20th, 2008 at 11:18 PM ^

According to the girlfriend of one of the MSU hockey seniors, there was a crazy fight.  It started after a small scuffle because a football player pushed a hockey player's girlfriend.  20 minutes later, 4 black SUVs showed up with 15-20 football players who came in and started beating everyone up.  There is a picture with one of them with a gun...


October 21st, 2008 at 1:12 AM ^

It is very difficult to play very long or well on an ACL deficient knee. For daily activities, the ACL does not come into play very often-even for inline jogging. But for the degree demanded by any competitive level sport, you tend to tear up your knee more. Each injury is different with different levels of instability. If the secondary stabilizers are intact such as the meniscii, they will provide some protection against translation and pivoting, but that additional stress will often result in a torn meniscus. There is a lot of controversy over whether partial ACL tears occur, but I think most of these people have scarred down the ACL to the PCL providing some degree of stability. Usually these people can function to some degree, then get a repeat injury with tearing of their secondary stabilizers and then have OMG shirtless instability. Bottom line, get it fixed if you have any designs on competitive level sports--except bowling. Hell, Roy Munson almost beat Big Ern with a rubber hand.

Anonymous Coward (not verified)

October 21st, 2008 at 1:52 AM ^

as an Irish fan was being offered condolences by fans of teams I was used to beating the shit out of.  It was almost too much to bear.

I hope you never again have to suffer through an opposing fan posting their analysis of a football game on your messageboard, the analysis of which on prior years consisted exclusively of "I hope we are competitive next year if that walk-on works out". In our case, this is the Naval Academy, in your case, MAC_team_005.

The 2007 Irish squad was destined to be poor, but they need not have been as poor as they were.  That is squarely on Weis.  The same is true of your squad this year.  RR could have run a basic I-formation rushing/play action passing attack this year with Minor and Threet while recruiting the pieces for his spread attack.  I guess you can only teach what you know, but there is no shortage of coaches in the Michigan tree that know how to coach a ground attack.  I think you'd have a couple more wins to your name at this point with that strategy.RR had a good offense at WVU, and I don't see why he couldn't do the same at Michigan, but just because he sacrificed his players at the alter of 3-8 his first year at WVU doesn't mean that Michigan requires the same crucible to acheive reasonable future results.

Glen Masons Hot Wife

October 21st, 2008 at 2:06 AM ^

The Following is a comment on the fight between the MSU guys. Whether it's true or not, who knows.  A funny read nonetheless.  Although I disagree with the statement "This is just like what happened at Michigan a week ago."  Yes, what happened here was disgusting, but we don't know that Kampfer did anything to intentionally provoke Milano. He could have, but we don't know.


"Dantonio! Get your dogs in line!

Here’s what happened:

Some drunk MSU hockey players were running there big mouths (I know many of them, they all talk more trash then Mike Hart) about how they have won a National Title more recently in Hockey then Football has. About how it was pathetic what happened against OSU.

So one of the football players (luckily I was not there for this) took exception and got about 8 of his boys and came back and it was 9 football players vs. 4 hockey players, game on! The hockey players got smacked down.

This is just like what happened at Michigan a few weeks ago.

Moral of the story:

Football players can kick a hockey players ass, any day of the week, so all hockey players need to quit running they mouths! Period!

I just hope no starters were involved, or else they are suspended for Michigan….."

Yinka Double Dare

October 21st, 2008 at 9:39 AM ^

Anyone want to wager money that "charges will not be filed until later this week or early next week" means certainly "early next week"?  They'll totally fudge this and stall so that they don't have to suspend anyone for the game this weekend, even though they know damn well who is involved.