Unverified Voracity Had The Wind Knocked Out Of Its Head Comment Count

Brian October 1st, 2012 at 5:52 PM

New Yost. Looks nice


…but is set to further erode the atmosphere in the stadium as the first three rows of the student section have been excised for additional handicap seating. I guess it's inevitable that would eat out a chunk of the students because money is the primary motivator for the department, but that continues a long tradition of crapping on the student section without offering anything in return that started with the terribly-designed (and perpetually half-empty) club seat overhang that eliminated the last four rows on that side of the arena and made a further four or five partially obstructed when you stand, as students do. With every renovation the capacity gets smaller and the prices go up.

Meanwhile, this is not a good idea:

On the bright side, it appears that opposing parents are sitting next to us this year. [insert evil laugh here]

Maybe the student section has mellowed enough in the past five years to make this workable but the last time this happened, hockey parents moving into the students to find who was talking about their boy were an annual occurrence. Michigan's asking for it.

Descent into Captain Queeg-dom: 75% complete. Mark Dantonio's presided over two mass player brawls, picked multiple players up from jail to drive them to practice, seen William Gholston treat Denard Robinson's head like a beer with a twist-off cap and punch Taylor Lewan without lifting a finger (the Big Ten levied the suspension, remember), had a public hissy fit after last week's EMU game, and he's just getting started.

As I was checking out the Brayfriend Experience in Athens, Michigan State was playing Ohio State in East Lansing. A film kerfuffle and eye-gouging incident have obscured the true WTF moment from that game:


via cjzero

Will Gholston laid motionless on top of Braxton Miller for a good 30 seconds after that hit, wobbled off the field, and then returned. The sideline reporter dutifully related that Gholston "had the wind knocked out of him."

That's appalling. Anyone who hits the video above can see the ref tapping Gholston in the back to get up; he does not get up. He's just taken a vicious helmet-to-helmet hit and lays there for 30 seconds. Does it matter if he's actually unconscious or just incapable of moving for 30 seconds? No. That guy is done for the day, unless you're Dantonio. The blatant lie about what happened to him is just the cherry on top.

I guess it's nice that Dantonio has the same disregard for the safety of his own players as he does for his opponents, though. (Remember who was Robert Reynolds's DC: Dantonio.) He's got that going for him.

I assume this will once and for all end the bible-thumping, square-jawed discipline dean media meme, right?

BONUS: hey, guess what everyone who said words to the effect of "good" in the thread on this on the board got? Banned.

In other MSU news. Their OL took another hit when starting center Travis Jackson went out for the year against OSU. They inserted journeyman senior Ethan Ruhland at center after the injury and are rolling with a redshirt freshman at LG; Blake Treadwell has been bouncing in and out of the lineup with injury. If Michigan had suffered the injuries they have already we'd be sitting here in sackcloth and ashes—okay, more sackcloth and ashes—gibbering.

OSU's Jordan Hall tore his PCL and is doubtful for next week but apparently will be "evaluated on a week to week basis."

Uniforms. No Z. We'll see how the motion shortz go with these things but these actually look pretty slick from the rear:


This will all be ruined by Muff the Magic Block M on the front, I know.

UPDATE: front. I like 'em.

Why are we stopping this again? Michigan-ND kills, man:

Michigan-Notre Dame
Clemson-Florida State
Kansas State-Oklahoma

That was an NBC record. Surely NBC is pissed off that Stanford for some reason is taking the place of M-ND and that Purdue and Duke and Wake Forest are hitting up Irish schedules now.

Maisel also points out that this is all Texas's fault.

If only anyone had paid any attention last year. Gholston a draft faller:

William Gholston*/DE/Michigan State: Gholston failed to impress during the Spartans' devastating conference defeat at the hands of Ohio State. Though he continued to play despite being injured in the first half, Gholston provided no impact and was minimally productive. In five games this season, he has posted just a single sack.

I thought they were nice. I may have been wrong.

Yeah, but have they had two people on Survivor? Georgia has. I saw it on their jumbotron.

Etc.: Google docs spreadsheet with Michigan hockey TV appearances from the HSR. Things that should have been at the estate sale that wasn't.



October 1st, 2012 at 5:56 PM ^

I'm not surprised gholston didn't play well.  It's hard to impress when your coach forces you to go out there with traumatic brain injury.


October 1st, 2012 at 6:25 PM ^

he wasn't real impressive. He was vastly overrated because of recruiting hype and "freak" athletic ability. He didn't exhibit explosive burst that you would see from elite pass rushers.  Like his cousin, Vernon, he has stiff hips in which he struggles to bend in pass rush.  He's much better suited to play at 3-4 DE.


October 1st, 2012 at 6:40 PM ^

Concussion, from the Latin concutere ("to shake violently")[1] or the Latin concussus("action of striking together"),[2] is the most common type of traumatic brain injury. The termsmild brain injurymild traumatic brain injury (MTBI), mild head injury (MHI), minor head trauma, and concussion may be used interchangeably,[3][4]


Why must you keep countering everything I say on this issue?  You clearly have no idea what you are talking about


October 1st, 2012 at 6:52 PM ^

I respond to what I read, not the username. I didn't even realize that it was you until you started whining. I'll concede that I was wrong on this point but not on my other points. I assumed we were talking about severe trauma, a wrongful assumption to be sure. I do know what I'm taking about, thank you, much more so than you, it seems.


October 1st, 2012 at 6:46 PM ^

How can you not see this?  You don't have to be a doctor, hart20. 

Let's break it down, going backward (my aplogies if I sound like I'm talking to you like a 3rd grader, but you leave me little choice).

Is it an injury?  Yes.

Does it involve the brain?  Yes

Is it caused by trauma (specifically, to the brain)?  Yes. 

Traumatic brain injury. 

That was pretty easy, wasn't it?


October 1st, 2012 at 7:22 PM ^

Usage to be the clinical usage, but rather the classical counterpart instead. Again, you have absolutely no proof that a concussion took place. In fact, you have a clinical evaluation stating that it did not take place. Continuing to say that doctors actively abandoned their duty is not only wrong, but potential grounds for a lawsuit. The fact is that this board is biased against MSU and that it shows.


October 1st, 2012 at 7:37 PM ^

B) have a player knocked silly and you at least want to render a VERY good explantion to John Q Public, because that looked terrible, technical definition of concussion or no. 

The burden of proof, from the public's POV, is going to be: on what grounds did you put him back in after THAT?

Going to look at the Detroit papers to see if this has become an issue. EDIT: No, only here!


October 2nd, 2012 at 11:56 AM ^

that it is entirely possible to get knocked the f%#k out without having a concussion, and I think there is room for contention as to whether Gholston was actually knocked out or was simply dazed by a substantial hit and momentarily non-responsive due simply to getting his wits about him and not due to anything that would qualify as a brain injury.

That being said, to report that he had the "wind knocked out of him" and nothing more is lying.  Saying that Gholston took a massive shot to the head and is being evaluated brings concussion into play, and bringing concussion into play means that Gholston is not going to see the field again during that game.  Rich Rod kept Denard out of the nearly the entire second half of Illinois for a less severe hit to the head, and ND took Crist out of the Michigan game in 2010, nearly ensuring a loss, when the kid was up and smiling on the sidelines.

It may have been a concussion, it may not have been.  Regardless, I think there is enough of a track record over the past few seasons to conclude that Dantonio and his staff are not that interested in players safety, either their own or that of opponents.  I don't think that is a bias against Michigan State but a reasonable conclusion that could be drawn based on recent history.


October 1st, 2012 at 7:45 PM ^

So If we're questioning the antics of a tattoo parlor Owner, or a booster for Ohio state, or coach tressel, it's all good. But when we question the actions of a Michigan state doctor, I'm somehow committing slander? People do immoral things for their football team. I may be wrong in my assumming this guy fucked up, but this wouldn't be the first time a player has been inappropriately cleared to play


October 2nd, 2012 at 3:25 AM ^

You mean, other than the motionless body for over a minute?  You're right, no evidence of the concussion exists, but there's no evidence that it didn't happen either.  Until we get some statement from the coaching staff (I'll be honest, I haven't looked for Dantonio's Monday pressers yet), there's still a feeling that there's something fishy going on with regards to Gholston's return to the game.  As its been stated, the burden of proof is on them...because it certainly looks and sounds like a duck.

Section 1

October 2nd, 2012 at 6:59 AM ^

So we will see, perhaps today, how the press approaches this seemingly clear problem, on a big issue that practically cries out for more explanation.  There could be a dozen good questions put to Dantonio on this issue.

Particularly in a week when the Michigan legislature in Lansing is considering a new law to promote concussion awareness and requiring coaches to take players out of games in the event of any suspected concussions.


"Next question..."


October 1st, 2012 at 6:09 PM ^

players have sustained serious concussions, fractured necks, and paralysis over the last 25 years. Braxton Miller is already being tackled and going down, yet Lewis launches himself head-first at where he thinks Miller is going to be. The only conceivable reason he's doing this is to injure Miller while he's unable to protect himself, but he ends up injuring his own teammate instead. Lewis is damn lucky he didn't break his own neck.


October 1st, 2012 at 6:24 PM ^

The player's own code needs to change.  Don't get me wrong - the coaches have a huge responsibility too, but the players need to realize that you don't need to do the following:

1.  Launch yourself head-first at someone (for your sake and his);

2. Try to drill a guy when you're coming in at the end of the play and your only function is to make 100% sure that he's down.  There's a place for being tough for its own sake, but these plays disproportionately lead to injuries and almost never produce anything as far as yards or turnovers. 

Space Coyote

October 1st, 2012 at 7:02 PM ^

Did Lewis launch himself? Yeah. But to say definitively that Lewis was only doing this to hurt Miller is a bit ridiculous. His form was awful, he's clearly going for a big hit to make the QB leery of running all over his defense, but he's doing what a lot of defenders on a lot of teams do. The ball carrier starts going down, the tackler try to get even lower, and doesn't get low enough, gets bad form, etc. He's going for a big hit on a running QB, maybe trying to put his helmet on the ball and blow the play up but can't get low enough (most defenders won't smash their heads into the ground, his helmet is about a yard above the field). It ends up bad, and he shouldn't do it for the opponent's safety, his teammate's safety, and his own safety, but let's not act like in the split seconds that are college football at full speed that Lewis determined that he was going purposefully attempt to hurt Miller. 


October 1st, 2012 at 7:06 PM ^

Yeah, I don't think Lewis is in the wrong here.  He was playing hard, and tried to make a hit that wasn't at all late.  He had an awkward collision that resulted in an injury, but that stuff happens on legal plays all the time. 

There's nothing wring with hitting the QB before he's down, because sometimes fumbles happen when guys are going down, and sometimes ball carriers look like their going down and then end up slipping the tackle.  Lewis was playing hard, and playing to the whistle.  And he was doing that within the rules.  I doubt our players are coached to do any different.


October 1st, 2012 at 7:28 PM ^

Couldn't disagree with you more. This Lewis missile launch is the reckless and irresponsible. Head down. Leaves his feet. 

Miller has two guys dragging him down. He's not going anywhere. This hit is not an attempt to cause a fumble. This is headhunting. Plain and simple. He's using the crown of his helmet as a weapon and Gholston pays for it.

You're supposed to SEE WHAT YOU HIT. End of story.

I think every league needs to review these plays and suspend players that leave their feet. The sooner this "It's all good until the whistle blows" mentality is out of football, the better.


October 1st, 2012 at 8:05 PM ^

I'm not saying it was good form, or that it was necessarily a smart move (or that it necessarily wasn't), just that he wasn't in the wrong.  He didn't do anything illegal at all.  He was reckless, but he was reckless between the whistles and a lot of players, including some of our own, play that way, at least at times. 

Space Coyote

October 1st, 2012 at 8:13 PM ^

There is a huge difference in playing a reckless, but between the whistles and with effort, than playing reckless and dirty on purpose. This to me is clearly the former. And while I don't condone hitting the way Lewis did, it seems pretty clear that his intent wasn't necessarily purposefully dirty, like others are trying to insinuate.

Space Coyote

October 1st, 2012 at 8:18 PM ^

You act like Lewis sat there and thought to himself, "Miller has two guys tackling him, I guess I'm not going to make a play on the man." This is absurd, and I question your knowledge on football, seriously. Watch it in real time, Lewis puts his head down at the same time Miller starts to get lower. Lewis is still making a play on the ball carrier at this point, he is still trying to either force a fumble or stop the ball carriers forward momentum. Is he also trying to make a big hit? Yes. Most defenders do this. This isn't head hunting a defenseless WR over the middle, this is a play in traffic where the offensive player starts to go down at the same time as Lewis.

Lewis does have bad form (his head is down, but in reality it's extremely difficult to "see what you hit" that low, put on a helmet and shoulder pads and go full speed with someone coming at you and you try it, I bet you won't "see what you hit" either). And he doesn't launch himself upward like a missile, forward and down with the ball carrier. But you expect him to play 2 hand touch or something, to be passive, or some other characteristic that would be lambasted if he played for someone other than MSU. Honestly, I don't understand some of you guys, MSU does enough stupid stuff (like put Gholston back in the game after this hit) that it makes no sense for so many Michigan fans to feel forced to manufacture BS like "Lewis tried to injure Miller and should be suspended". The game is fast and violent, big hits happen, and while you don't want players to leave their feet or hit with their helmets, the players aren't always perfect with their form, especially college kids trying to make big hits and big plays.


October 2nd, 2012 at 12:22 AM ^

As I watch it, I see him lowering his shoulder more than the crown of his head. His head tucks into his body, which is instinctual when bracing for an impact. Honest question: have you ever actually tried to tackle someone? You can preach good form all you want but in a bang bang situation form can go out the window. I personally see nothing dirty.


October 2nd, 2012 at 12:40 AM ^

What are you looking at? This is not a tackle. This is a kill shot attempt. He's leading with his head. Looking to lay out the opposing QB.

This isn't Pop Warner football. These are skilled athletes with years of experience. They don't lose "form" and end up parallel to the ground.

And this is anything but a bang bang play. Slow developing rush up the middle. 


October 2nd, 2012 at 12:25 PM ^

looks like Lewis attempts to abort contact at the end of the play which leads to the contact with Gholston.  Who knows if he was going to be in good position or bad position if Miller had not been pulled down.  Miller is quick man, Lewis was in position to make a play before it became clear that Miller was going down, Lewis could have still gone for a "kill shot" if their was ill intent.  That was not a malicous play at all.  To say that it is is being biased against MSU.


October 1st, 2012 at 11:24 PM ^

Your faith in your fellow man is touching, but to a great extent defensive football in 2012 at the college and pro levels is about trying to deliver the kill shot to the guy in the other uniform. Physical punishment is the name of the game, and it's silly to pretend that doesn't involve injury. It's implicit. When you have a chance, watch game film from the NFL or college in the 50s. It's a different game—almost nobody is launching themselve head-first at opponents; it's far less violent than today's game is.


October 1st, 2012 at 6:10 PM ^

Didn't injury his frontal lobes... He already has a hell of a time with the inhibitory portion of his brain that is supposed to kick in when the whistle goes off


October 1st, 2012 at 6:26 PM ^

What appears to you, I, Brian, and a great multitude of people to be a concussion may not have actually been so. Unless you can PROVE that they knowingly put Gholston back in the game with a concussion you are treading awfully close to libel.  I would suggest everyone leave this one alone unless or until further information comes out.


October 1st, 2012 at 6:34 PM ^

You'd be right if the rule was, "A concussion, only a concussion and no other head/brain/spinal injury is reason to be kept out of a game."  By rule, of course, I don't mean NCAA rule I mean the rule of what's right for a player's health. 

Sure, it's possible that he didn't have an official concussion, if that sort of thing exists and can be determined in the sidelines of a football game, but what happened to him was (a) bad, (b) involved his head/spine, and (c) caused him to lie motionless on the ground for a lot longer than your typical bell ringer.  I've seen guys get concussed and get up much more quickly than that.  Dude looked like he has just rolled down a sand dune as he was walking off the field.  Whatever happened to him, he shouldn't have gone back into the game.


October 1st, 2012 at 6:44 PM ^

And if we want to get lawyery, I bet I could find one to successfully defend me from that libel case, without having to look real hard.  It wouldn't be hard to find a doctor to look at that video and declare in his expert opinion that the MSU coaches were lying when they said he had the wind knocked out of him because that's not what people do when that happens.  Especially since the video shows him getting conked in the bean.

Why should we leave this alone?  Dantonio is a prick.  Sparty in general has no class.  Advancing that narrative with video proof is a service to mankind.