Unverified Voracity Eats At IHOP

Submitted by Brian on December 6th, 2017 at 1:03 PM

Shea Patterson and friends watch. It's happening? I mean. Can't throw a rock without hitting someone who says SOURCES are telling him that Shea Patterson is a lock for Michigan and possibly as soon as this weekend. Sam Webb's put in a crystal ball, which he hastens to say is not a Gut Feeling, and here's the Blade's Michigan beat writer:

It's happening.

Probably also happening: Van Jefferson and Deontay Anderson. Both guys are coming up this weekend. Highlights of Patterson throwing to Jefferson in 2016, when Jefferson was a redshirt freshman:

He had 49 catches for 543 yards and was on pace to best that as a sophomore when he dislocated his elbow before the Texas A&M game.

That is likely it despite some overheated reports that up to seven Ole Miss players are interested in Michigan. Taking the three guys above already stretches Michigan's scholarships pretty thin. Anyone who doesn't play tackle is in tough for playing time, and per Rashan Gary's mom Greg Little isn't interested. Gary and Little became friends over the course of their recruitment so that's as good a source as any.

The other guys mentioned haven't set visits and it's unclear that Michigan would be interested in them.

Why wasn't it Cracker Barrel though? For some reason, Harbaugh flying down to see guys he might have on his football team caused the internet to blow up. Harbaugh claps back at Mark Dantonio? Go crazy, guys. Harbaugh does a thing literally all football coaches do dozens of times a year with high school players? Maybe let that one slide.

What do you say, internet?

Ah, still internet I see.

A fairly good defense. Michigan lands four guys in the PFF All Big Ten defense, and three of them return:

Two more guys couldn't have been far off that list given this stat:

Personally, I'd take the CBs who whooped up on Simmie Cobbs over the one who got whooped until he got a safety bracket, but Michigan's guys were probably hurt by a lack of volume.

Add in Rashan Gary to the five returning guys in the above tweets and you've got quite a platform to build on.

Missed tackles: nah. Josh Liskiewitz, one of PFF's Big Ten evaluators, was grilled by Iowa fans because Josey Jewell was omitted from the team above. This spawned an interesting twitter thread in which Liskiewitz defended himself with various stats he'd compiled. The most interesting from a Michigan fan's perspective:

[he == Jewell, FWIW]

Jewell had an 86 grade—which would have made him first team All-SEC or All-Pac12, but finished 9th(!) in the Big Ten. We assume that Tegray Scales, Jason Cabinda, and Ryan Connelly are three of the five guys in front of Jewell, FWIW.

Peters cleared; Black a maybe. Brandon Peters is good to go for bowl practices and the game, per Harbaugh. I assert that he will start. Yes, I assert that. Here's a randomly depressing stat!

Prior to the injury, Peters was 37 of 64 for 486 yards passing in five games, including three starts. He's thrown a team-high four touchdowns, and no interceptions.

Sweet fancy Moses.

In other bowl injury news, Tarik Black is back in practice and could play in the bowl game. Harbaugh says he's "leaning towards not doing it," and, I mean... don't. Michigan's in a good spot in the bowl game without him and a potential fifth year is far more valuable than whatever marginal bonus chance at a bowl win he provides.

Good luck, whoever you are. South Carolina has axed their offensive coordinator. Er, their co-offensive coordinator Kurt Roper. The other guy, Bryan McClendon, is at least temporarily the only cook in the Gamecock kitchen. He is 33 years old and facing down Don Brown with one of the worst offenses in the country. Good luck with that, sir.

FALSE. I love Harbaugh but this is a bad take he should feel bad about:

"My reaction is that there should be more than four teams in the playoffs," Harbaugh told reporters. "Again, I want to reiterate: 8 teams, 12 teams, 16 teams. Sixteen would be ideal in the playoffs."

For one, a team that reached the finals is playing 17 games. For two, the urgency of the regular season is obliterated if last year's Michigan team finishes their season they way they did and still gets in.

Add one fan. ESPN's Sarah Spain has been on a journey across college football to find a team to root for, and she stopped by the MGoTailgate before the OSU game last week:

Saturday morning I headed out to meet one of my hosts for the day, Gordie Fall (named in honor of Gordie Howe), at the famous MGoBus. The tailgate featured craft beer from Wolverine State Brewing Company, loads of breakfast food and, of course, the maize and blue MGoBus owned by Matt and Sara Demorest. While I was there, I learned more about life on campus and the UM scene with Brian Cook and Seth Fisher, of popular Michigan sports site MGoBlog.com. I also met former Wolverines running back Vincent Smith (you may remember him from this), who's now running community gardens in Flint, Michigan, and his hometown of Pahokee, Florida, to increase access to healthy foods, reduce juvenile crime and use gardening-based intervention to curtail violence. Very cool.

Adam was also there! Adam doesn't talk much. Thanks to everyone else's contributions but certainly not ours, Michigan was the pick. Welcome, Sarah. Prepare to be called a Walmart Wolverine despite going to Cornell.

Etc.: More on Dave Brandon The Program's first press conference with chief gobbledygook purveyor Herm Edwards. A timeline of Jimbo Fisher's unprecedented move. John Beilein gets shots up. Chris Collins tells a bald-faced lie in a postgame press conference. It remains impressive how many NU internet people openly loathe the guy who got them their first NCAA tourney bid.

Comments

dnak438

December 6th, 2017 at 1:20 PM ^

Namely, the CEO-ification of the football coach and the trend of running the AD as a corporation rather than as a wing of a university. E.g.:

 

 

 

stephenrjking

December 6th, 2017 at 6:52 PM ^

Jellico (who was a captain) wasn't the aloof, delegating CEO type that Edwards appears to be. He's a driving, abrasive force that makes strong (if sometimes wrong-headed) decisions that clash with the existing culture. His problem is that he's too involved, too focused on the small stuff, too interested in upsetting the culture he has entered without understanding it. 

Edwards is the opposite. He doesn't know a thing about the Cardassians and hasn't been in space in years. He's Old Picard with Space Alzheimer's, given a spot on someone else's bridge out of courtesy by old friends, spouting orders that neither he nor the crew understand anything about.

swan flu

December 6th, 2017 at 1:15 PM ^

Is there any precedent that would assist Patterson will be eligible immediately? All I could find was that Sam longo had to sit a year after the OSU Bowl ban.

jdemille9

December 6th, 2017 at 1:34 PM ^

No precedent that I've heard of..but what some seem to be intimating is that the whole "Ole Miss lied to us and misled us about who was responsible for all the violations and we wouldn't have come if they had told the truth" will be enough for the lawyers to get them immediate elibility. We shall see, but it doesn't seem like Patterson would transfer if he had to sit. Would make his path to be our starter all the harder because he'd have to beat out the incumbent 2018 starter (whether it be Peters or McCaffery). So there's that...

Personally I'm not holding my breath that the NCAA lets them play right away, especially for Harbaugh. But hey, stranger things have happened. Here's to hoping!

bronxblue

December 6th, 2017 at 2:09 PM ^

My assumption with all of this is that he wouldn't transfer without some certainty it wouldn't be encumbered with a forced redshirt. If that's not the case, there really isn't a big reason to leave Ole Miss unless he really wants to play college ball, because as you noted, otherwise he's sitting on the bench for a year and then trying to displace an experienced starter.

True Blue Grit

December 6th, 2017 at 2:11 PM ^

unfortunately "it doesn't seem like Patterson would transfer if he had to sit" is about the most compelling argument I've seen.  And since this is the NCAA we're talking about, I share your skepticism.  Still, it makes you wonder if Patterson has had any lawyer do any pre-checking on this case to see if he has some firm legal ground to stand on before deciding on any transfer?  

war-dawg69

December 6th, 2017 at 4:45 PM ^

That would be really stupid for the ncaa and ole miss. Neither can afford a huge civil lawsuit that would be coming. There going to have to let Harbaugh win this one. It is way bigger than Harbaugh and the players are going to win. Ole miss and the ncaa will have to open everything up to federal investigators. I think you are way wrong on this one and the kids and Michigan know it.

Almost everything I have read is that they will be given a waiver. The reason as I satated is fear of a federal civil lawsuit brought on by all members of the ole miss football team. The ncaa wants know part of that as they would be almost sure to lose. It would open a huge can of worms and they would lose because Freeze openly lied to these kids about sanctions. I think it is just a formality at this time. That is also the reason these kids have no restrictions on where they can go. Ole Miss wants no part of more investigations and this time by federal investigators. Sorry but I don't think Harbaugh enters into there train of thought when there looking at federal investigations.

Communist Football

December 6th, 2017 at 3:34 PM ^

Here's what Winovich has actually said regarding his senior year:

"We're still deciding," Winovich said after Michigan's 31-20 loss to Ohio State on Saturday. "In a way, I'm kind of like a free agent. We're going to evaluate all of my options and go from there."

I hope he stays; he's a great player and has been a warrior, as you say, Comrade. But it's natural to care about one's stats if one is more concerned with NFL draft rank than staying in college.

What I'm getting at with the original question: Does Brian have inside info (or even intelligent tasseography) that Winovich is staying? Or is he making an assumption simply because Winovich has eligibility remaining?

 

 

ijohnb

December 6th, 2017 at 1:22 PM ^

kind of thing should not be a surprise from Collins.  For the last fifteen years, Coach K has manipulated facts, relied on misinformation and mischaracterizations, and lectured and berated media and other players and coaches, and then outright lied about, all this while still being praised for his class as a coach and person.   Given how much Collins was guided by Coach K I think we should get used to this kind of thing from him.

stephenrjking

December 6th, 2017 at 1:22 PM ^

I was looking forward to Peters showing what he could do with a month of being the guy, working on the playbook, developing his reads. Now it feels like it's his last chance to show he can be a winning starter for Michigan. 

I have no idea how he feels. But monitoring Peters is going to feel like waiting on Michael Cammalleri in the summer after his junior year.

Ziff72

December 6th, 2017 at 1:28 PM ^

Peters has a great opportunity to take control of this team and solidify the job with a great performance in the bowl.    Patterson is not a lock to win the job.    He's a great addiition for depth but he's not shown enough yet to prove he's clearly ahead of Brandon.  This will be a full out battle.

jdemille9

December 6th, 2017 at 1:45 PM ^

I hear ya but I don;t think it matters in the end..

Here's the situation if Patterson doesn't come: Peters starter, DMcCaffery back-up then two true frosh. Not ideal depth but presumably a solid starter.

Patterson comes and Peters leaves: Patterson starter, back-up and depth is the exact same situation. Overall all we did is trade Patterson for Peters. I'll take that if Peters isn't willing to compete with Patterson, says a lot about him if that is the case. 

So we're not really ending up worse off if Patterson comes and Peters leaves, it's essentially a wash.

BUT if Patterson comes, and Peters stays we have much better depth.

QB situation stays the same, or it gets better. Can't get worse. I don't see Patterson having any effect on McCaffery. 

ijohnb

December 6th, 2017 at 1:54 PM ^

are "trading" players now?  And "it says a lot about Peters if he isn't willing to compete with Patterson?"  OK, competition is a good thing, you want it to some degree, but at the end of the day these guys are on the same team, they are supposed to want the same thing.  It is baffling to me how many people are overlooking the very real negative effects that this could have on the team/program.  The players on this team know Peters, he is their teammate, he is part of their lives.  These are not pros, they don't yet think like pros. 

This is not simply all upside, man.  This is a legit risk, for the immediate future and for recruiting.  A move like this could result in severe negative-recruiting tactics for 10 years, and they would not be entirely without merit.  This has the potential to be brilliant, it also has the potential to blow up big time.

jdemille9

December 6th, 2017 at 2:09 PM ^

I did not say we are "trading" players. I said that is what it essentially works out to be if Peters decides to leave. And yes, it does say something about Peters if he decides to leave instead of battle it out with Patterson. I'm not saying it's OK or right or anything, but if another QB is brought in and your move is to leave instead of sticking around and battling it out, yes that tells us a lot about him. For the record, I do NOT think Peters will leave if Patterson comes.

Peters would have still had to 'battle' Speight had he stayed. Not the same caliber player as Patterson, but Peters wasn't just going to be handed the reigns without having to still fight. Speight even said so much as well, that he was told he'd be a top QB but he was still in a competition splitting reps as fall camp rolled around. 

I also never said anything about no longterm negative effects. That is absolutely a possibility but I also think Harbaugh has already considered this. Something tells me he wouldn't do longterm damage for short term success. Success that isn't even guaranteed with Patterson anyway. 

All I was addressing is how the QB situation works out based on the scenarios I laid out. 

EDIT: Honestly, I still think Peters has a huge leg up on Patterson, time in the system and in games under Harbaugh. A full bowl season of practices as well. I'm not sold on the fact that Patterson is an immediate starter at all. I think Peters is the starter in 2018, regardless of whether Patterson comes. 

ijohnb

December 6th, 2017 at 2:20 PM ^

think what it would tell us about Peters if he left is that he thinks it is kind of bullshit to commit to a college program, redshirt, battle it out with an incumbent for the starting position only to be passed up as backup despite being objectively much better, perform very well when finally, and mercifully, being called upon to perform, only to see the position you have worked really hard to secure become in serious doubt because your coach is bringing in a new QB from Ole Miss.  Honestly I would have to agree with him.  My guess is that quite a number of potential recruits would probably agree with him.

I'm here for the long haul.  I am going to be a die hard Michigan fan as long I am alive, regardless of who is coaching or who is playing.  I would be lying, however, if it did not appear that Coach Harbaugh's definition of "merit" in his meritocracy may be diverging somewhat from my initial interpretation.

jdemille9

December 6th, 2017 at 2:27 PM ^

Just for argument's sake.. I am not picking your point apart and being a dick for the record, just curious and interested in some more discussion. 

So you're saying that a kid should commit and then expect to not have to keep earning his spot as a starter? Because that's basically what Speight said he had to do coming into 2017, keep proving that he was the man every day. 

Harbaugh has made his meritocracy thing very well-known. What this move says to me is that he is concerned about depth at the QB position and by bringing in another talented QB (like he has been every year via recruiting, and two kids in this class) he can not only elevate the competition level but also prevent a situation like we had this year. NOT saying I think it is right or wrong, just that's how I see it. 

Another take is that, in addition to needed QB depth, maybe he feels that Peters isn't the guy anymore or maybe he needs someone other than a freshman to push him to be his best. There could be any number of reasons. 

Ultimately, I am a Michigan fan like yourself and I always will be. But Harbaugh is human and he's gonna make mistakes. We saw that play out with the Swenson situation, and that's what I go back to here... he knows they didn't handle it correctly, but he's also made it clear you need to continue to improve both as a recruit and as a Michigan player. Something tells me he has already thought about the impacts, both positive and negative, of potentially bringing in a guy like Shea Patterson. 

I think what a lot of people are assuming is that Patterson is the automatic day 1 starter.. I just don't see that. One, I am not sold on Patterson being a better fit in this system than Peters and two, Peters has had two years in this system. A complicated system by Harbaugh's own admission. Peters knew nothing would be handed to him, and as admirably as he played in his limited action we haven't exactly seen anything that should say yeah he is absolutely the man. IF Peters is truly the man then he'll prove it and win the job. If he's not then Patterson could win it. 

As for longterm negative effect, yes there could be some but how much? If a kid is committing to Michigan he already knows Harbaugh takes at least one QB per cycle and will continue to do so. There will ALWAYS be competition for the Michigan starting QB spot. So while it may not "look good" for the program I don't see it really have much negative effect. Kids who shy away from competition aren't looking at us anyway. Alabama doesn't seem to have trouble with all the elite talent they get every year, neither does OSU. If Michigan wants to compete with the likes of the football elite, and we know Harbaugh does, then they need to be bringing in all the talent they can whenever they can.

But again, I am not so sure Patterson even beats out Peters anyway, so this all may be a moot point in the end. 

ijohnb

December 6th, 2017 at 2:56 PM ^

don't have time to respond to all of that.  You make some good points.  I do want you to look at something through a different lens though.

"So you think a kid should commit and then expect to not have to keep earning his spot as a starter?"

No.    

Players should never be that comfortable, they should have to play hard, practice with intensity, learn and improve.  Players should try to improve on a daily basis and be held accountable.  But, the axiom that "you have to earn it everyday" is kind of literal, but also a good bit of pure coach speak.  At some point, you have to have a starting quarterback.  You have to have your "unless something crazy happens" starting quarterback.  When explored literally, this idea that "a QB has to earn their spot, every day, every minute, every practice" will prevent a team from ever developing any real identity.  The QB is an extension of the coach on the field, and when a coach will not really commit to a QB, that is going to result in problems, possibly problems a lot like how Speight looked coming out of the gate this year.

When he announced he was transfering, the first reaction was that people thought Speight had been given the "firm handshake," but now we are going after Patterson for depth?  The closer I look at it, the more it looks like Speight transfered because "F all that" and I do think at some point you will see a lot more of that.

So, for the record, if Patterson comes in, I do think Peters will transfer, and I won't blame him for it nor will I think it says anything about him as a person or a player.

1VaBlue1

December 6th, 2017 at 2:56 PM ^

Key-rist!!!  Do you not actually, you know, follow the program?  Speight left, in part, because he thought he owned the starting spot and didn't like that he had to compete in Spring and Fall camps.  He said that himself last week in a story from the Freep (or Detnews) linked here.  Also, Sam Webb said last week that Peters was okay with Patterson coming.  Also, when has Harbaugh flipped QB's mid-season?  Barring injury, he's never done that lightly - when he names you the starter, you have to get injured (or fuck up JOK bad) to get pulled.

EGD

December 6th, 2017 at 8:25 PM ^

Yeah, at the outset I was very much in favor of Patterson coming and now I am only mildly so. I think there are strong arguments on both sides and I have enjoyed reading these posts. It's frustrating when somebody resorts to insults and ad hominems rather than contribute measured thoughts to the conversation.

mgobaran

December 6th, 2017 at 2:41 PM ^

Speight was legitimately QB1 entering the season. Whether or not you want to admit it. He was roughly just as accurate, while knowing and executing 3 times the playbook Peters ended up playing with. 

WOTS is that Peters didn't take kindly to losing the job and slipped to the point where he even stated in an interview that he didn't practice like he should have until Speight went down:

..."saw an opportunity when Wilt went down. You never want to wish that against your teammate for someone to go down, but it happened so you’ve got to be ready. When that happened, I saw an opportunity. Second string, anything can happen. One play away.”...

...“As soon as Wilton went down, I knew I had to pick up my game a little bit, be more focused, that kind of stuff,” he said.

I mean he earned the job, against a back-up QB. Speight is leaving, so there is 1 other scholarship QB on the roster who isn't a true freshman. Harbaugh is getting the best guy he can to ensure our third string QB next season isn't a true freshman. 

schreibee

December 6th, 2017 at 2:45 PM ^

I would be lying if I didn't admit I don't g.a.s. what ijohnb's definition of "merit" in meritocracy is!

Should Peters be expected to feel he HAS to compete with McCaffrey in '18?

With Milton & Doyle too, for that matter? Of course he should! 

And shouldn't the best QB win? Of course he should!

God knows that didn't happen for a long stretch in '17! Much to Michigan's detriment.

I had surmised on this board (and it has been obliquely confirmed through leaks and observations) that it was Peter's own personal demeanor, rather than his on field performance, that kept O'Korn in there through msu, psu, and into the Rutgers game.

How would Patterson coming change any of that? Peters will either be even further edged into becoming the vocal leader JH feels the QB must be, or he'll NEVER be that guy. (Incidentally, back when Urbz still had Alex Smith he described the tear down & rebuild he did on Alex to make him the vocal leader QB he wanted. Harbaugh is not alone in this feeling.)

Further, when did JH name the starter for Florida? Wasn't it in-house, the week of the game?

What are any of the QB's options if he repeats that in '18???

war-dawg69

December 6th, 2017 at 5:06 PM ^

If you are a Michigan football fan and for some reason don't want Shea Patterson to come play at the university of Michigan, I can only conclude that you have zero football knowledge or are completely fuckin brain dead.

Our season was just lost because we had nobody at QB and the number one QB from the 2016 class wants to come to Michigan and there are actually alledged Michigan fans that are like, no thanks were good. Are you fucking kidding me. I'm sorry but anyone who does not want Patterson to come to Michigan is a osu, msu,psu fan because nothing else makes any sense. Also anderson, mathews and Jefferson can all start also.

It does'nt matter anyways because they are all coming and Michigan will probably win a NC, despite what some real dumb so called Michigan fans want or are worried about.

THESE GUYS COMING TO MICHIGAN IS A NO BRAINER....................PERIOD!!!!!!!!.

Kevin13

December 6th, 2017 at 4:08 PM ^

why do some people just assume Peters is going to leave. He is the #1 QB right now and will be starting our bowl game. If he has a good game he has a huge leg up on everyone competing for QB next year. If Patterson does come here and goes through Spring I would think the pecking order would be: Peters, McCaffery, Patterson.

Competition would make everyone better and by fall if Patterson is #1 then he will have earned it and would give us the best chance to win next season.

Like you pointed out if Peters would leave, it really doesn't change our landscape at QB from what it would be next year if Patterson were not to come depth wise.

But as a coach your always looking to improve your team and a talent like Patterson doesn't come around very often. You would be foolish not to try to improve your roster and give your team a better chance to win next year.

jabberwock

December 6th, 2017 at 2:33 PM ^

easy on the hyperbolic fan waving.

"severe negative recruiting tactics for 10 years"

lol, so when Rudock transfered here everyone gnashed their teeth and pulled their hair out?  1/2 the players quit the team?  Rioting in the streets?  Dog & cats living together?

Is Wisconsin still reeling from the hurt feelings that were caused when Russell Wilson transfered there?

Yes, there are risks, not only could Peters bail and some players resent Patterson, but what if Peters leaves, and Patterson ends up sucking, or getting injured?
But that could happen to Peters too, there's just no predicting the future.

jabberwock

December 7th, 2017 at 10:08 AM ^

Rudock was not as highly rated as Patterson, and our depth chart was a bit more iffy then, but how is it not similar?

or Okorn

QB from outside the program gets invited in by Harbaugh for 1 season (or more) to compete for playing time.  How is that not absolutely similar?

In case you haven't noticed, we are losing 3 fucking QBs before next season.

#1  (and presumed starter) Speight
# 2 (or 3 depending on how you look at it) John Okorn
#4 Alex Malzone

and you think replacing them with two 3* true freshman QB's is okay?  WTF!!

Why didn't all of our QBs quit and go home the last two times Harbaugh brought in a transfer?