Tuesday Recruitin' Harasses In The Name Of America
Today's recruiting roundup covers the updated Rivals100 and Rivals250, the latest on Derrick Green and Leon McQuay III, Channing Stribling's first game of the season, and a creepily overzealous UGA fan.
Shane Morris Up, Everybody Else Down, Basically
The Rivals100 and Rivals250 were updated this week, and the big news is that Shane Morris has been bumped up to a five-star and the #17 overall player in the country. The rest of the changes weren't as positive for Michigan, however, as every other commit who was previously in the Rivals250 dropped save for David Dawson. Here's the whole list of commits:
- QB Shane Morris up to #17 (previously #22)
- DT Henry Poggi down to #58 (#52)
- LB Mike McCray down to #81 (#55)
- OL Patrick Kugler down to #88 (#73)
- OL Kyle Bosch down to #92 (#77)
- S Dymonte Thomas down to #102 (#95)
- OL Chris Fox down to #112 (#57)
- TE Jake Butt down to #132 (#118)
- CB Jourdan Lewis down to #150 (#147)
- OL David Dawson up to #165 (#171)
- RB Wyatt Shallman down to #206 (#182)
- CB Ross Douglas down to #232 (#222)
- DE Taco Charlton debuts at #233
- OL Logan Tuley-Tillman down to #241 (#235)
- LB Ben Gedeon drops out of Rivals250 (#237)
Most of the drops were minor, a result of prospects making their way onto the list or moving up significantly as opposed to an actual drop in performance; this is the case for anyone who stayed within 15 or so spots of their last ranking. Mike McCray and Chris Fox had mixed reviews at The Opening and other camp appearances, which likely contributed to their respective falls.
As for prospects of interest, VA RB Derrick Green fell one spot to #13 overall, FL DB Leon McQuay III jumped to five stars and one place behind Morris overall, and WR Laquon Treadwell is the first four-star and top-ranked receiver at #23.
"Good Feeling" = Bad Sign?
VA RB Derrick Green visited Georgia and Auburn over the weekend; while Georgia isn't thought to be a contender, Auburn represents Michigan's stiffest competition, and rumors swirled after the visit that Green was strongly considering a commitment. Much like the last time that happened nothing came to fruition, though that doesn't mean the Tigers didn't make a big impression:
Ok, I think
— Mike Farrell (@rivalsmike) August 21, 2012#Auburn has the edge for Derrick Green now over#Michigan -- gut feeling but he says no decision this weekend despite rumors
Green told Farrell($) after the visit, "I got the same feeling I got the first time I was there, a really good feeling," and mentioned that Auburn and Tennessee will get official visits; he's already set up an official to Michigan for the Michigan State game. Green doesn't claim a leader at the moment and it appears that his decision will largely ride on how his official visits go; he doesn't give off the impression that he's made a decision. That said, there's a good chance Auburn holds an edge at the moment.
In more encouraging news, newly-minted five-star FL DB Leon McQuay III told Tremendous that he plans to make it to a Michigan game this fall, likely against Michigan State. While the Wolverines are still outside of his top three, they were at or near the top of his list before taking Ross Douglas; if the coaches convince McQuay that he's still a top priority I believe they still have a good shot of landing him.
As for McQuay's teammate, WR Alvin Bailey, he's officially eliminated Michigan after excluding them from his top five. This shouldn't affect McQuay, as Bailey appears ticketed for Florida or UCF; neither of those teams are serious contenders for McQuay.
While Laquon Treadwell is still the leader in the clubhouse for Michigan's final receiver spot, it's too early to rule out AZ WR Devon Allen, who told Scout's Dave Berk that the Wolverines are in the running for an official visit ($):
“It’s not really final yet, other than I have an official set up with Arkansas. But I’m writing down a few games like Texas, UCLA, Notre Dame and Michigan, some of the games they’re playing when I hope to have a free weekend. I’m not 100 percent sure on my high school football schedule so I’m working on that.”
There's some stiff competition there, though given the list it looks likely that Allen leaves the Southwest. As always, Michigan has a shot if they can get him on campus.
Happy trails go out to VA DE Wyatt Teller, who chose Virginia Tech over Virginia last week. He mentioned Michigan among his leaders a few times but always appeared destined to stay in-state.
Channing Stribling Playing Well(-ing)
Stribling's interception, via his Instagram
When NC CB Channing Stribling committed to Michigan he was an unknown, unranked prospect who'd seemingly earned an offer on the basis of one strong camp performance. Many were concerned he didn't merit an offer over higher-ranked prospects like Delano Hill; if Stribling's first game of the season is any indication, those concerns will be dispelled quickly. ESPN's Kipp Adams led off his weekend impressions($) with the header "Wolverines pull off grand larceny":
He made several impressive plays Friday, opening the game by showing great leaping ability on an interception, making a shoestring catch on the sideline and sticking the wide receiver at the line of scrimmage. With offers going out to underclassmen across the nation without colleges ever seeing them in person, the story of Stribling earning his offer by impressing the Wolverines staff at camp is refreshing.
In this humble writer’s opinion, Brady Hoke and his staff should be wearing ski masks when discussing Stribling on signing day, as they have stolen a gem from the Tar Heel State.
Scout's Chad Simmons named Stribling his top performer of the weekend($), an impressive feat considering he played alongside four-star WR Uriah LeMay and matched up against Mallard Creek's four-star WR Marquez North:
On the first play of the game Stribling went up on a pass that was underthrown and picked it off. That set the tone for this big game and Stribling continued to play at a high level for four quarters.
His play will reflect on Scout when we update his ranking later this week. Look for this Michigan commitment to make a move in the position rankings and to add a star.
He has great length, he plays the ball well, and he has the body to really add significant weight. His best football is ahead of him.
Stribling is only a two-star on Scout at the moment so that bump doesn't get him into four-star territory, though with a few more games like that against top competition he could make a push for that distinction. Tremendous caught up with Stribling to talk about his performance and he largely credited what he learned from Michigan's camp:
Improvements: "One thing I learned at the Michigan camp that was huge for me last night was switching up my stance. I was able to watch the quarterback while covering the receiver last night because I kept myself square with the quarterback off the line of scrimmage. While I'm turning and running with my receiver and I can see where the quarterback is looking. It's something I had never really done before to be honest. It changes my entire outlook because it allows me to play the run a lot quicker as well and I made a couple big hits early".
You can see video of Stribling making a couple of catches, laying a big hit at the line, and, er, not being involved in a play at his Hudl page.
None of Michigan's other commits played official games last weekend, though OH CB Gareon Conley had a touchdown catch and a one-handed grab in Massillon's scrimmage against South.
Your Moment Of Zen
If I told you a college football fan called a recruit's cellphone to ask him about decommitment rumors, would you believe me if I also mentioned said fan is from the SEC? Of course you would.
Last Thursday, [Georgia commit Steven] Nelson was contacted by a person who wanted to know if he had indeed switched his commitment from UGA to Texas Tech. They talked for about 5-10 minutes.
“I get phone calls almost every day from college recruiters and reporters,” Nelson said. “He called me up, and I forgot what his name was. The way he was talking, I thought he was a reporter, so I stayed on the phone. He was just trying to convince me to stay with Georgia, told me how good of a player I was, and wished me a good year.”
A fan then took credit at Georgia's Rivals board, attempted to blackmail said Georgia site, then defended his actions by posting, "Why are you so conditioned to think you have to have a press pass to talk to an American citizen?" There are no words, only exasperated Bunk gifs.
Slick Segue, Ahoy
Speaking of illegal recruiting contact, the invaluable John Infante of the Bylaw Blog details a potentially game-changing NCAA rule proposal that would allow non-coaches to scout and contact recruits, something that happens all the time anyway but behind the scenes. This would ultimately result in programs largely recruiting through designated directors of player personnel (think the college equivalent of an NFL GM) and recruiting coordinators while moving the burden of recruiting away from coaches, according to Infante:
The potential model of recruiting that develops is very clear. A general manager/director of player personnel will have a staff of recruiting coordinators who do much of the early grunt work in recruiting. They’ll watch film, gauge interest, rank prospects, and evaluate needs. The coaching staff will go see top targets in person, invite prospects on visits, and go see recruits at home or at school. The player personnel staff and the coaching staff will then meet to make decisions and send offers.
That would free coaches from much of the busy work of recruiting and let them focus on coaching their current teams. Player personnel will become the major track for aspiring coaches as well as a career path in its own right. Recruits may see more sophisticated and intense recruiting from a dedicated staff.
Infante mentions the possibility of staff limits to keep this from becoming a recruiting staff arms race; I think limits would have to be in place to prevent recruits from being completely inundated by calls/texts/etc. from an army of recruiting specialists. I actually like the proposal, however; it would likely give the up-and-coming Trooper Taylors a more fitting job description, make things easier on coaches and compliance offices, and lend more transparency to the recruiting process.
August 21st, 2012 at 1:23 PM ^
I find all the vitriol towards the georgia fan ironic in that we all follow a site that supports the contacting of recruits.
Personally, I don't think anyone, other than coaches, should be calling a kid and talking to him. I may be in the minority but I could do without some of the info if it kept us out of kids cell phones and twitterz...
jdon
August 21st, 2012 at 1:27 PM ^
If you don't understand the difference between a credentialed reporter interviewing a prospect—following NCAA rules about proper contact—and a fan cold-calling a kid's cellphone and telling him where he should go to school, I honestly don't know what to tell you.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:05 PM ^
To play devil's advocate - are the legion of blogs that you and Brian link to for this information "credentialed journalists"? Tremendous, Touch the Banner, Hoke's Mad Magicians, Maize n' Brew - all of whom have "recruiting correspondents". Are these people credentialed? If they are now, have they been credentialed throughout their run as "journalists" in which they contacted recruits? It seems like Tom VH sprouted a cottage industry of amateurs that, essentially, e-stalk recruits.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:13 PM ^
I completely agree with this.
So if the guy had spent ten minutes beforehand setting up georgiadawgpound.blogspot.com, then this would all be fine? That's stupid. This is an unregulated space with a lot of pretending-to-be-official people running around with no training, little sense of restraint, and every incentive to harass these kids until they get what they want.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:19 PM ^
No, it would not be fine, because the Georgia fan is still committing an NCAA violation by encouraging the recruit to go to Georgia. That is the main distinction that I think people are failing to make here.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:23 PM ^
In your post, you complained that the person made contact at all.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:36 PM ^
Wait, that's your concern? So if the guy didn't push the recruit to Georgia at all - just called because he was curious - then this wouldn't bother you as much?
What if 1,000 fans call just because they're curious?
August 21st, 2012 at 2:57 PM ^
To start, ideally it would be impossible for 1,000 fans to call a recruit because—again, ideally—a recruit's phone number shouldn't get out to the public.
The big issue with recruiting coverage right now is that there's not only zero regulation for which media outlets can contact recruits, there's also no regulation as to how to contact them. Before social media came about, reporters had to call high school coaches to set up interviews with players, and high school coaches wouldn't give the time of day to some kid with a blog. After making the initial connection through the coach, reporters could then set up how they would contact the recruit and/or his parents in a way that worked for both the reporter and the recruit.
Then social media happened, and now by far the most effective way to reach a recruit is through Facebook and Twitter. Since this has become the main form of initial contact, it's very difficult to go about things the old way—calling high school coaches—when it's far more effective to contact the recruit directly. At this point, a lot of high school coaches won't even return a reporter's phone call because they just expect the reporter will go the social media route and leave them out of it entirely.
This, of course, has opened up access not just to reporters, but anyone who wants to become one. It's led to some great things, like Tom and Tremendous opening up recruiting content to the non-paying public. It's led to some not-so-great things, like our buddy the Georgia fan and the dozens of "recruiting analysts" who don't follow NCAA rules.
So, no, I don't want a bunch of fans calling up recruits, and thankfully they can't most of the time since recruits don't usually post their phone number. I think blogs, for now, can contact recruits for interviews since it's legal, though I'd like to see them show restraint about contact and, of course, follow the rules. I'd also like to see much greater regulation of media contact with recruits, but right now the rules have yet to catch up with the technology. I expect that to change over the next couple of years, especially as more schools begin to have a blogging community as active as Michigan's.
August 21st, 2012 at 3:42 PM ^
August 21st, 2012 at 6:00 PM ^
Thanks. I agree with almost everything here and will spare you (and the good people at Tremendous) from hearing my disagreements now.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:23 PM ^
As a further follow up for Ace: when you say "credentialed" do you mean it literally, as in given press recognition by a particular school's athletic department (which obviously mgoblog and maybe tremendous has, but not, so far as I know TTB... don't know about others)? Or do you mean it figuratively, as in "recognized presence on the web?"
The latter, of course, certainly leads to a chicken and the egg question, and as, um, turd suggests, creates an incentive for lots of quasi-fans / prospective recruiting analysts to harass high school kids to make a name for themselves.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:52 PM ^
What bothers me most about the incentive thing is the complete lack of consequences for behaving unprofessionally, unethically, or whatever. If you work for the Washington Post and do something crazy, the Washington Post's reputation is harmed. Thus, there are a lot of people who will make sure that you don't do something crazy.
On the other hand, if you create a site today and then do something crazy tomorrow, like call a recruit 175 times to try to get an interview, then you can always just close up if it doesn't work out. And if it does, well, you might have something there.
August 21st, 2012 at 3:03 PM ^
Exactly.
On the one hand, if you're not a good interviewer and at least seem to be interested in recruits in their own right, you're unlikely to get a lot of interviews, and you're unlikely to attract attention from the wider blogosphere. In that sense, there is some meritocracy involved, in that it seems that Tom VH and Tremendous are good at what they do. (I personally have never found these interviews that interesting, but YMMV).
What we don't know, however, is the number of phone calls, tweets, facebook messages, etc., that random "analysts" seeking to make a name for themselves launch at these recruits in search of interviews, and how much of an intrusion on their lives that is whether they embrace it or try to ignore it (which itself takes effort). And because it's done at electronic distance and with entities with little to lose, there are virtually no reprecussions for bad behavior.
August 21st, 2012 at 4:04 PM ^
Only thing is we have a front page post warning people not to post Ace Williams stuff, because there's apparently enough recognition and interest in his drivel that we people have to be told it's crap. So I'm not sure being good at what you do necessarily is what gets you noticed.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:16 PM ^
Tremendous is credentialed, and if you've noticed in these roundups that's pretty much the only blog I link to for recruit interviews.
As for how TomVH et al have operated in the past, you're correct, and the result of his success has been a legion of imitators; I have no problem acknowledging that fact. They're impossible to avoid at this point, but I make it a personal policy not to link to anything that crosses the line from interview to illegal recruiting contact; again, the only blog I really link for first-hand interviews is credentialed.
As for fans, I think I've been pretty outspoken—as has BiSB—about my feelings regarding their contact with recruits. That's largely because fans are often unaware of NCAA rules and therefore commit violations, and that's included bloggers in the past; while I don't like the fact that most blogs now have a "recruiting analyst" doing first-hand interviews that are largely redundant, as long as they're following NCAA rules, I don't have nearly as big of an issue with it as I do with conduct like that of the Georgia fan.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:23 PM ^
I know where YOU stand on talking to recruits, and my criticism isn't intended to be aimed at you, or, really, anyone in particular.
We both know that Tremendous started posting interviews with recruits on this blog before he had his own blog - I'm going to assume he wasn't credentialed at that point, so I'll include him in my umbrella. I'd also quibble with the notion that Tremendous is the only blog linked (Touch the Banner seems to get more than it's share from here).
To Turd Furgueson's point (words I never thought I'd write) - if the Georgia fan had a "getemdawgs.wordpress.com" URL, would that make it more acceptable (not the attempt to influence, but the unsolicited contact, which you also seem to have a problem with)? The conduct is fine, or it's not - you're arguing for different rules for different people with a very low barrier of entry.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:29 PM ^
To go even further, was it largely the interviews with recruits that led Tremendous to get a credential? (This is an honest question, I'm not aware of that blog's chronology, but recruit interviews seem to have been a core part of it from the beginning).
August 21st, 2012 at 2:38 PM ^
I'd prefer that all of the recruiting contact is kept limited to the professionals for the sake of the recruits; I also acknowledge that there are not only no rules prohibiting blogs from doing what they're doing, but MGoBlog somewhat led the charge on this new era of recruiting coverage. As long as blogs conduct themselves by NCAA rules, while I don't like the fact that they add to the burden on a recruit in terms of time spent talking to reporters, if recruits are willing to talk to them I'm not in a position to say that's not okay.
What the Georgia fan did falls under an entirely different category since he called with the purpose of (knowingly or unknowingly) committing an NCAA violation. He also attained a recruit's cellphone number without the recruit's knowledge, an issue I haven't run into even among the legion recruiting blogs out there.
So, yes, the barrier of entry is low, but at least if a person is published in some form there's some form of accountability; people can read the site and know if a violation was committed, and if a site continues to break rules it's easy to report. If fans are just cold-calling players and asking them questions just for the hell of it, I think that falls into a different category.
Again, I'd rather there be further restrictions and regulations on who can contact recruits from the media side, but right now those aren't in place, which leaves me in a bit of a bind when it comes to trying to keep people informed—especially when I prefer linking to sites that produce quality information for free instead of paywalling it—while also getting the message across that fans should not try to influence recruits. There isn't a perfect solution right now, but I'm pretty sure I won't ever reach a point where I think it's fine for a fan to call a recruit's cell and tell him to go to Georgia.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:54 PM ^
Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.
August 21st, 2012 at 4:10 PM ^
Getting paid, or getting published, or some combo or lack thereof?
August 21st, 2012 at 3:03 PM ^
If only there was some League to keep them in check...
August 21st, 2012 at 1:35 PM ^
Derp heres a gif of Denard instead
August 21st, 2012 at 1:33 PM ^
As sick as the Georgia fan is his point about having a media pass to talk to people has some validity. Its not very much of a stretch to go from that to saying don't talk to people on twitter to don't follow them on twitter. (That said calling someone does seem to cross some lines).It's my job to follow them on twitter and if you follow them too i won't have anything new to report. (Hmm sound familiar?)
Also i don't see the need for a pot shot at the SEC for this, OSU had its creeper and people crossing the line is in no way unique to the SEC.
Finally it is almost surprising to see this has not happened before, you see kids post phone numbers or email addresses on twitter all the time.
August 21st, 2012 at 1:44 PM ^
It's absolutely happened before—I've talked to players who've said fans have called their cell AND home phone, the latter more common thanks to the yellow pages—but this is one of the first times I've seen it reported. Usually guys just hang up and don't think anything of it.
August 21st, 2012 at 1:58 PM ^
That would be the White Pages.
/1992'd
August 21st, 2012 at 1:52 PM ^
Gold. Pure gold.
I read the part about Channing's first play and picking off the ball and thought, WHO in their right mind would throw a pass to the side of the field with a Michigan commit playing CB? Then I read that it was 4* Marquez North, another UM target. My my...what a tangled web we're weaving through the Atlantic states.
August 21st, 2012 at 1:54 PM ^
As much crap as we give Stanzi for this, what a stupid question asked by Chris Myers.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:04 PM ^
Thank you sir for your comedic subtleties!
August 21st, 2012 at 2:27 PM ^
I don't know why, but my initial reaction to the proposal about recruiting changes is that this would be a very bad thing. Recruiting has been a meat market for a long time. Over the past 10 years it has become a very public meat market.
My feeling is the NCAA should be looking at rules which put more control on a schools ability to recruit players not make it easier. It just seems like it is getting to be too much. These are teenage kids (even if some of them do enjoy it).
I know, get off my lawn.
August 21st, 2012 at 2:30 PM ^
Wait, are you saying I'm being creepy and perhaps even a violation by going around NW Ohio and telling all the good football players to totally go to Ohio State?
August 21st, 2012 at 2:38 PM ^
to the RB decommit from Texas A&M that supposedly had Auburn as his 2nd choice. Did that guy commit somewhere else and/or is Auburn now taking one more RB than expected?
I still think we can get Green to Go Blue when we get him on campus and we kick MSU's a**.
August 21st, 2012 at 3:07 PM ^
Suddenly, that MSU game has great significance.
/s
August 21st, 2012 at 3:08 PM ^
Greg Bryant who decommitted from Oklahoma. If that is the case, he's very high on Auburn along with South Carolina and Georgia. Really hoping he chooses Auburn obviously.
August 21st, 2012 at 4:14 PM ^
I meant Oklahoma.
August 21st, 2012 at 3:27 PM ^
From what I have read, Auburn is only looking to take one more back. I guess it all depends on who commits first. If Bryant takes the spot then I think our chances are better for Green.
August 21st, 2012 at 4:09 PM ^
I think I figured out how the rankings were put up there.
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