State Of The Site, Late 2013 Comment Count

Brian

keyboard_bash[1]This is obviously meta.

I may or may not do something like this again, but UMHoops does 'em and they seem like a good idea. Since I've mentioned my general dissatisfaction with the way things have been going around here in a couple of different formats, I figure a fuller explanation is due to everyone who doesn't listen to the podcast or care about Twitter, and Twitter was about six sentences anyway.

I've gotten a lot of emails and tweets in support and while I appreciate them a great deal, I feel like it's not really all that bad and perhaps I haven't expressed any of this clearly enough. So here's an attempt.

THE BAD THING

one-flew-over-the-cuckoos-nest-11[1]

We moved servers just before the season, and for some reason this imploded the Drupal module we were using that did the voting/comment-graying. Don't get me started on that unless you want the animated gif above to be my fate.

The new server is a champ, and was direly needed. We only blew up during the Hand commitment aftermath, and I guarantee you that the blog would have been crushed four or five other times during the year if we had not moved. At times this has been a mixed blessing—it probably would have been nice to be down after Penn State—but having your internet site on the internet is a goal.

The cost was steep, as without the obvious disapproval provided by your comment shrinking into a gray box, dumb comments multiplied and fights about those comments multiplied since there was not an obvious indicator that other people had already dismissed it. I felt this would happen but had very little time to do anything about it since this event happened smack-dab in the middle of me pounding out the 50k-word season preview.

Flaming went up, signal got obscured, and things veritably roiled.

THE BLOWUP

We brought Brandon on board to be a recruiting reporter and he posted an interview with a 2016 kid; he gave us a picture in which he looked pretty young. I thought nothing of it because I follow hockey closely and there kids who don't have to shave commit all the time. (A kid born in 1998(!) just committed. The OHL speeds up their timelines.) Michigan just took a 2016 commit in football, and has a half-dozen offers out. But this resulted in a comment thread in which a lot of people made jokes about the kid not having to shave; others put on their Serious Issue faces and wondered if this was ethical. Then the prospect posted a screenshot of people making fun of him on twitter. SMH, man.

By this point we'd had a lot of crap on the board and this was a seeing-red moment. I posted a thread about how this was unacceptable, etc., whereupon there was a huge comment thread in which concern trolling featured heavily. The ethics of talking to high school kids about where they might go to college was frequent topic.

This was and is ridiculous. We're not about to Rosenberg these kids, both because we're not [REDACTED] 5'2" [REDACTED] goobers who'll do someone dirty to get ahead in the world and that going Rosenberg on someone would completely crush us with our readers, deservedly.

We're going to ask them softball questions and publish them after correcting any spelling mistakes, and you, the reader, are going to post comments like "Good luck wherever you go!" because that's the social contract we have here. That's how this works. You are going to assume that high school kids are going to read anything they can about themselves online, and we're going to throw Charmin at them in slow motion. This is not hard-hitting journalism here.

Anyway. The primary concern troll was a guy who'd been around since the very beginning of the site, chitownblue. He quit in a huff once, then came back as chitownblue2, and almost never appeared except to chide someone about something. At some point virtually everyone who writes for the site complained to me about him. The rest of the people who had posted things that broke the social contract in that thread quickly apologized; he dug in to fight the battle of the Somme. Another complaint about him happened in the midst of that thread, during which my dander was up and finger already hovering over the button. So I banned him, and various compatriots. And I've had an itchy trigger finger since.

They'd been around forever. I regret nothing, except that I waited so long. I hated that guy.

THE ISSUE

A friend sent me this post from 4chan's founder in response to similar issues he'd had, in which he cites another post from Steve Pavlina about why he shut his popular forums down. Pavlina talks a lot about entitlement of longtime users and standards that he felt weren't being met, both of which I kind of feel. But moot's thing is the thing:

Something that’s always surprised me is how often people seem to forget how large the overall 4chan community is outside of their own respective interaction with it. Some simply don’t care, but I think others plain don’t realize they’re just one of millions of people who post and browse 4chan on a monthly basis. …

My view is that it simply isn’t possible nor prudent to attempt to please everyone, and so I don’t. This can be misinterpreted as not caring, but it’s far from it—it’s just a reflection of my belief that the needs of the community outweigh the needs of individuals. Which is an ideal I think most would agree with, but when emotions run wild and tensions run high, we often lose sight of it.

The general rule of thumb is that 10% of your readers will read the comments/forums and 1% will leave most of them. I believe our numbers are quite a bit higher than that, but even so that the the primary thing that happens in the comments is lurkers reading them. From the perspective of the commenters these people do not exist. From my perspective, they're the majority of the readerbase.

Most of these people seem to like the site. They visit it. That majority has not been reflected in the comments. Of late when people recognize me I wince a bit, because I'm not sure how this interaction is going to go. I'm kind of waiting for someone to unload on me. This never happens.

As the season's gone along this disconnect has become apparent. And I'm finding the complaints harder to deal with because with the demise of voting so many of them have become personal attacks hardly sheathed in anything resembling logic. Brandon just took a lot of crap for posting that usually when recruits are open with him that means they're excited about Michigan and Malik McDowell was tight-lipped, which may not bode well. This exploded into controversy for some reason: that reason is there are a bunch of people who just complain about everything about the site.

IT'S NOT YOU, IT'S ME

Why these people can't let go and do something else, I don't know. They're locked in a prison of their own devising, being miserable about the state of the blog while they make it worse by constantly complaining about it.

I am going to help both these folks and myself escape from purgatory by hitting the eject button on them. Like this guy who has 41,000 points, most of which seem to be accumulated complaining about the site. And this guy. Great news for everyone: they're banned. Now they are free to explore the rest of the internet, perhaps to find something they don't hate.

This represents a policy change. In short, that is: if the people who write for this site hate you we will ban you. That is the upshot of the twitter burst and the podcast thing. This is not really a change for most people since we did that for anyone with a few points who came in guns blazing. This mostly applies to folks like guy I just banned who'd accumulated the third-most points on the site. I hated that guy! For three years! And out of some idea about respecting the community I let him fart all over it.

To respect the community, we should ban jerks, even if they've been around so long that it seems that there must be some redeeming value in having them around.

If you don't like the way the comments are laid out, or you think there should be more jumps, or fewer jumps, or have a substantive disagreement with what I think, or even have argument-free opinions I roll my eyes at every six months or so, fine. I have to get to know you to loathe you. All you people are good. In fact, here are protips to not get banned under this new regime:

  1. Don't have an avatar. You're less likely to get noticed.
  2. Don't be a jerk to people who write for the site. Much more difficult that #1, but still doable if you try.
  3. Don't constantly complain about the people I hire. If you want to send me an email, fine. Publicly crapping on the other guys who write for us is filed under jerk.
  4. Don't get mad at me for having a particular emotional state. This happened constantly throughout the season, as if the internet tough guys who were taking the bullets the season threw at them could somehow improve my mood by berating me.

I can understand how the last few years have put people in a place where they find me irritating after once enjoying the site, but all the comments in the world aren't going to be able to change what is primarily a sports blog about what it feels like to be a Michigan fan. If you feel differently, okay! I accept that you feel differently. If you want me to feel like you, that is an argument you are welcome to have anywhere else.

It's been a trying year for everyone, and I'm about to go figure out how to get the damned voting back on comments, so hopefully things will recede from this, their irritating zenith. Thank you to everyone who did not expect me to be an emotional clone of themselves this year, which is like 99% of you. I enjoy you.

-Brian

Comments

Cali Wolverine

December 6th, 2013 at 3:01 PM ^

And thank you for dropping the ban hammer on a certain user that had accrued 41,000 points...u have made my day and made this place a better place. :) My UM alum wife that is battling stage 4 cancer also thanks you!

CooperLily21

December 6th, 2013 at 3:11 PM ^

I, for one, didn't really enjoy reading the public beheading portion as I always thought M-Wolverine was an intelligent poster who, at the end of the day, had the site's best interests in mind with his comments.  There have been several other individuals to be banned that warranted a much more public banning but that's just the nature of the site.  I just wanted to take a minute to let M-W know that some/many of us did/still do like him.

Best of luck and Godspeed to your wife and your entire family!!!  Kick that cancer ass!  We're here for you as a community - don't hesistate to ask for Board help if you ever need it!

Space Coyote

December 6th, 2013 at 3:23 PM ^

Sometimes he could be a little rough around the edges when he obviously got fed up, but I thought for the most he was an intelligent poster than wanted what was best for the blog. Now, maybe that doesn't match up with many of the others, but I personally thought he was a good poster most of the time and will miss reading as much.

PrincetonBlue

December 6th, 2013 at 3:31 PM ^

How much of that respect was because of his point total rather than his quality of post?  I'll admit, I thought he was a good poster before.  But after reading this piece, my thoughts were shifted to "Wow, he sure did complain a lot". 

I don't know, I was biased before and am still biased with Brian now.

CooperLily21

December 6th, 2013 at 3:51 PM ^

Your point is taken but I grew up on this site back in 2008-09 when guys like M-W were still "young." I'm a bit biased too I guess because I had never participated in an online forum like this and guys like M-W and FormerlyAnonymous and Geaux_Blue and Zone Left and BISB essentially taught me to how be a good poster/contributor through their posbangs and through lots of negbang a a too. I appreciated M-W and admired his writing style, even though I didn't always agree with his content. But not everyone likes everyone (unless we're talking about Heiko!) etc.

gbdub

December 6th, 2013 at 4:56 PM ^

He WAS good, and he DID have, often, good points, and intelligent discussion.

However I think the particular issue here was that, insofar as his criticisms were directed at the proprietors of the blog, he didn't know when to quit.

Basically, Brian fired off some warning shots of the form "your opinions have been noted and rejected. The issue is closed", and MW did not allow the issue to close, in a way that became detrimental to the content if the blog.

Ultimately, "had the best interests of the blog at heart" became irrelevant, because it wasn't HIS blog. It IS Brian's blog, and if there's an intractable disagreement, ultimately Brian is going to win, and we posters need to accept that and move on.

UMgradMSUdad

December 6th, 2013 at 9:09 PM ^

I thought he was, too.  And this statement doesn't inspire a lot of confidence: "I hated that guy! For three years! And out of some idea about respecting the community I let him fart all over it."

Sounds personal, which is, of course, Brian's perogative. I would point out that Brian probably knows a lot more about the situation than I, but that kind of argument is considered fallacious by some around here.

MGoBender

December 6th, 2013 at 9:54 PM ^

I respectfully disagree.  M-Wolverine was one of the primary reasons I stopped visiting basketball games threads last year - something I had done for years.

I am a former college basketball ref and have the ability to provide some decent analysis of basketball officiating calls.  Yet, whenever I did M-W called me out for "being contrarian" or a "referee apologist" whenever I tried to explain why a referee made a questionable call.  His point total got a lot of people on his side and I was quickly negged to oblivion for providing a near expert analysis of something.

Then I gave up on it.  I feel like I could offer the board something that most people don't know about, but now I'm like "fuck it, not worth my time."

Cali Wolverine

December 6th, 2013 at 5:38 PM ^

...but apparently I was not the only one he rubbed the wrong way. I appreciate quick wit and snark...but not nastiness, "internet" tough guys or trolls that always have to have the last word. But thank you for the well wishes! My wife is quite the ass-kicker so I wouldn't want to be in cancer's shoes right now.

Erik_in_Dayton

December 6th, 2013 at 3:01 PM ^

...really gone downhill more than one would expect when the football team has yet another frustrating season?  I've sometimes slipped into nostalgia about the good ol' days on the blog only to to quickly remember that my nostalgia was misplaced. 

True Blue Grit

December 6th, 2013 at 3:01 PM ^

that the ban button will be much more freely used.  It was getting hard to read the blog at times because of all the troll posts and chronic complainers dominating the threads.  Hopefully, if someone is banned enough, they'll quit creating 2nd, 3rd, etc. accounts after awhile and just go away.  Otherwise, I'd strongly encourage (if it isn't too expensive) looking into banning IP addresses too.   That would make it harder for banned people to come back under a new username as they'd have to post from another computer.  

One of Brian's big points too is the fact that many recruits read MGoBlog.  So, all of us need to think very carefully when writing comments on specific recruits.  If it's something that could be taken negatively, it's best not to write it.  

SFBlue

December 6th, 2013 at 3:04 PM ^

100% best site on the Internets.  It has been a hard season, and I do not think it has brought out the best in anyone.  Keep chopping wood Brian, Seth, et al. 

LB

December 6th, 2013 at 3:06 PM ^

I was going to retire it when Lewan left, and then he ruined all of my plans by staying. In the interim, I've decided that it is staying because I like the line, even when the #$%#@%#@$%$ donkeys don't like being pushed. I am 100% confident the future portends difficult times for donkeys.

Oh, and thank you!

Marley Nowell

December 6th, 2013 at 3:06 PM ^

I remember after a couple terrible 2009 games the blog was shutdown for a few hours.  At the time I hated it but now I see how it prevented emotional stupidiy from being posted.

BiSB

December 6th, 2013 at 3:16 PM ^

That was actually a bug, not a feature. The site would get overloaded and the servers would crash when horrible things happened. In the past, the Penn State game would have shut things down for an hour or two, but the new servers held strong and let everyone drop their IMMEDIATE HOT TAKES FIRE BORGES. One problem solved, a new problem created.

blueblueblue

December 6th, 2013 at 3:13 PM ^

I've been a harsh critic of Brian in the past, and an all-around douche at times. I'm not sure why I survived (probably because I'm not worth the toruble of banning), but I'll take it. I also appreciate this post from Brian and will watch my douchiness in the future. The longer I live, the more I am realizing that life is too short for all that. 

I will add that M-Wolverine was one of my favorite posters around here (along with jmblue).  I do think its a mistake to ban him. 

gbdub

December 6th, 2013 at 5:06 PM ^

I think the real issue was that criticism of Brian went from "I vehemently disagree with your opinions!" to "you are a moron and a bad fan and how dare you write about football anyway, you unathletic nerd!"

Also, criticism started turning toward "you run the site in a bad way and I have a problem with your employees". Realistically you can't run a blog when that argument is taking over your threads. Stating your concern once is one thing. Posting the same concern repeatedly after it has already been noted makes you a troll and ultimately hurts the blog. I can totally understand banning those who cross that line.

realkato

December 6th, 2013 at 3:08 PM ^

Brian, good for you. The quality of writing from the staff here is usually top-notch, and it was a shame to see it get crapped on by idiots on a regular basis. There seem to be only a few commenters here that actually offer useful insights; the rest is just an echo chamber of complaining, flaming, and animated GIFs. I would love to see an up-vote system where only the editors can vote... I'd like to see a curated collection of useful comments instead of having to wade through and endless stream of garbage.

From someone who is mostly a lurker and just an occasional commenter, thanks for all that you and your staff do, and keep up the good work.

Opinion25

December 6th, 2013 at 3:09 PM ^

I enjoy Michigan sports, but I love U-M. I like winning, but it is more important to me that the players, coaches and fans are encouraged to represent Michigan well. That is one of the reasons I like MGoBlog so much, and appreciate the fine folks that contribute to it.

Thanks. 

Humen

December 6th, 2013 at 3:10 PM ^

I appreciate the efforts of every member of the staff. I'm experiencing entertainment that I would pay to experience, and I'm experiencing it for free. 

LVBlueFan

December 6th, 2013 at 3:13 PM ^

...so I am one of those quiet background people that Brian mentions.  I don't usually post but I read this blog EVERY day during football and basketball season and at least a few times a week outside of those periods.  I brag about this blog to friends who are fans of other teams/schools because the quality of the information on the site is without equal.  I link the articles to friend and foe alike because the work is exceptional and fair...this includes both positive and negative articles.

In short, this blog is a treasure that I value a great deal.  In fact I just made my first donation...

Forget the naysayers gentlemen - soldier on...the quiet crowd is behind you! 

wile_e8

December 6th, 2013 at 3:14 PM ^

One suggestion for the "How not to get banned" list: don't be "I think the coaches know more than you" guy. Prior to the start of MGoBlog, most "analysis" from newspapers was extremely superficial and usually consisted of grabbing a couple press-conference quotes that fit a pre-formed narrative. So one of the big draws to this site was that Brian went through *every* *single* *play*, explained what he thought happened, and then drew conclusions based off of that. Which didn't make him always right, but he showed his work and made it easy for critics to show where he was wrong and say why he was wrong. So when posters skip right past this and go right to the appeal to authority, it's extremely annoying. Especially since it's usually followed by the same group of concern trolls telling the poster how awesome he is for slamming Brian, encouraging those types of posts in the future, and then the whole comment section gets derailed by people arguing about whether Brian should be allowed to criticize the coaches.

The coaches do know more than Brian, but that does not mean Brian is wrong. Using an appeal to authority like that is fallicious, useless, and annoying.

Wee-Bey Brice

December 6th, 2013 at 3:23 PM ^

Sort of makes you wonder how many people around here hate you, doesnt it? lol. Like now, im curious to know if anyone is holding secret disdain towards me. If so, let's talk about it over virtual tea and crumpets. Just promise not to throw your tea on me..

Putt4Dough

December 6th, 2013 at 3:23 PM ^

Longtime lurker and recent participant.  One thing that I haven't seen here that I think should be said...  We are all invested in Michigan athletics and acedemics, emotionally and financially, to various extents.  However, these are just kids playing a game. I grew up idolizing these guys, but reality changed when they became classmates, friends, and human. I still see a number of people on the team, and others who have moved on, and I try to model my temperment and reactions to theirs. Most of these kids will not retire or ever make money playing football, some will. But many are far better people, and have lasting connections from the their time in Schembecler.  

(Off the podium) Basically, its a game played by kids. Cheer, scream, cry.  It's great, it's fun. But let's be better than our counterparts. This is particularly relevant given some of the aftermath of the Alabama v. Auburn game.

ST3

December 6th, 2013 at 3:23 PM ^

I sent Brian an email last night. I think that's the second email I've sent in four years. This was not the response I was expecting. Wow. Great post. Thank you, Brian.

nappa18

December 6th, 2013 at 3:27 PM ^

Well said, Brian. The biggest problem IMO, which is of course endemic to the internet, is that anonymous negative/obnoxious/ or just plain dumb commenting is made so easy. Most of those you banned probably would not be so irritating face to face, some would of course. So you did the right thing. Hard to believe some posted 41000 times. That is just scary.

ST3

December 6th, 2013 at 3:37 PM ^

In the "good old days" of voting, some guys wracked up some ridiculous point totals by way of pos-bang threads. (Post once, and everybody votes you up giving you points.) I  think M-Wolverine earned his points by posting 41,000 times.

Bando Calrissian

December 6th, 2013 at 4:02 PM ^

And those points magically disappeared after precisely a year. Or, added themselves back if you got negbanged particularly hard. You'd have to keep doing it over and over again, year after year, to keep up the same level of points.

TheLastHarbaugh

December 6th, 2013 at 4:45 PM ^

Yeah. I don't post that much (I know some of you will disagree but the proof is in my MGoPoints) and IIRC there was a time where I had like 8 or 9 thousand MGoPoints because of positive karma/upvotes.

All of that stuff expired though and so now (for the most part) your point total is a direct reflection of how many posts you've made.

RockinLoud

December 6th, 2013 at 3:29 PM ^

My interpretation - "There's always people out there that you give them a bar of solid gold and their response will be 'it's too heavy'. All of you that are that type of people and loudly outspoken, shut your pie hole. Big B is comin' for that ass now if you get out of line" ...or something like that.

I <3 Brian... mostly because his name is almost the same as mine. And the writing about Michigan stuff.  And things. Yeah, mostly things. Mostly.

MarcusBrooks

December 6th, 2013 at 3:30 PM ^

this seems to be an issue on every site

even the popular web site the Chive has had to re-do their comments sections due to so many nasty posts being made.

you guys do a great job breaking down Michigan football

better than any other site I have found.

if you have to kill ANY comments and just write your articles.

thanks Again.

Steve in PA

December 6th, 2013 at 3:36 PM ^

 

I came here when Tim closed up Varsity Blue and migrated to Mgoblog.  I was always impressed with the level of critical thinking and knowledge on this site.  Posts in that era were more than, "Coach XX sucks and he should be fired". Rational cases were made as to why a coach was failing and readers were able to provide thoughtful responses.

Ever since the negbomb disappeared this site has changed drastically.  Lately it seems that some commenters do everything they can to outdo one another, almost like there's a prize for "Most Emo" or "Most Negative".  At times I found myself hoping that Brian would shut it down for a few hours like in the RR days.

I'm glad to see the Mods and owner notice and are moving to correct things.  The return of the negbomb will help things along. 

I'm glad to be part of mgoblog and greatful for the work done by the staff.

 

 

 

 

jsquigg

December 6th, 2013 at 3:38 PM ^

Thanks for all the work you do on this site, Brian.  Believe me, there are those who feel like you do, but they aren't as loud as the critics.  This site has spoiled the fanbase.

Bilg3.0

December 6th, 2013 at 3:44 PM ^

the best college football blog on the internet in my opinion.

However, to just sweep under the rug the recruiting coverage concerns as people looking to bitch about anything is a bit disingenuous. A lot of people have been rubbed the wrong way by numerous BB posts. 

Asking why there was not such vitriol or negativity directed towards TVH would probably be a fair question in terms of site "self reflection." If we sweep every concern or criticism into the bucket of "trolling," the defense of the post or contributor in question loses any credibility.