No Second MSU Game At Yost This Year Comment Count

Brian

We found out why the first Michigan State hockey series was "TBA" yesterday, when it was announced that the two teams would play an outdoor game in Chicago. There are about 50,000 reasons that's a questionable decision—as in the number of people who won't be at this who would if it was on either campus.

Michigan is due to get two home games against State this year, Michigan and MSU have a contract to play at the Joe annually, and the other MSU game is still ominously "TBA":

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I just called the ticket office, and they said they were told that the January 30th game is at the Joe.

I, like a lot of season ticket holders, have already renewed my season tickets, and now I am informed that a game against Michigan's biggest rival is going to be in Chicago. This is how you lose people forever, Dave Brandon. But I'm sure the one-time benefit from playing in Chicago is more important than not making your season ticket holders feel like saps. Clueless. This athletic department is clueless.

Comments

saveferris

August 12th, 2014 at 2:04 PM ^

No it won't sell out, but it will sell more than the 6000 tickets that would've been sold to fill Yost, and probably at a premium price and that's probably all the thought that Dave Brandon put into making this decision....and that of course is at the root of the problem that most of us are having with him as our AD.

Hail-Storm

August 12th, 2014 at 2:09 PM ^

but there are many good reasons to be mad as a season ticket holder that should not be dismissed by Brandon or the commentors on here.

The argument is not whether an outdoor game in Chicago is a good or bad idea. If you are bringing this up in december last year, then I believe you would get a pretty good overall agreement from both season ticket holders and non season ticket holders.  I think a game against Wisconsin would be great, as Michigan hasn't played them often and it is almost in the middle of two pretty great hockey powers that are relatively close to Chicago.

The outrage comes from the fact that the AD promised a 15% decrease to season ticket holders and the way they partly accomplished this was to take away a marque game AFTER the season ticket holders assumed (rightfully) they had paid for it.

I am suprised at the number of great commentors that are so obtuse when it comes to understanding where the outrage comes from.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

August 12th, 2014 at 1:57 PM ^

I'm not going to lift a finger to defend the bait-and-switch, and I'm totally on board with the idea that this ought to be something other than the big rivalry game.  Minnesota or someone.  Penn State.

That said, there certainly are more benefits than "vague, short-lived good feelings 300 miles away from the arena."  A few made-for-TV events are good for college hockey in general, and if Michigan is participating in those, there's something to be said for being the face of college hockey.  Football doesn't need much extra exposure - hockey does.  And  Michigan's coaches can tell recruits who are considering the OHL "hey, you can play in outdoor games in front of tens of thousands of fans, or you can play in Owen Sound.  Your call."

Chicagoland has like 10 million people in it, so you don't need most of them to be excited.  It takes less than 1% of that to fill the stadium.

The clumsy (or downright dishonest, if you like) execution of this event doesn't go hand-in-hand with the benefits of doing it in the first place.

charblue.

August 12th, 2014 at 7:59 PM ^

in a venue not built for soccer is equal to a regular season rivalry contest in a move aimed at expanding college hockey in a city without a college hockey team in an outdoor arena. Who is kidding whom? Even from the standpoint of growing the game and enticing recruits, why do it at the expense of your most loyal followers? 

 

saveferris

August 12th, 2014 at 1:27 PM ^

I'm less pissed about the game being moved than about the Athletic Department not being more transparent about the home schedule.  When the AD sent out the e-mail back in June lettting us know prices were going to be reduced, they could've said it was because an alternate venue was being negotiated for one of the home dates.  That would in no way compromise any contract under negotiation while being completely transparent with your core fanbase.

I'm guessing there still would've been grousing and complaining, but I don't think it would have come as close to the anger you're seeing right now.  Right now, I feel a bit duped.

SI_Grad

August 12th, 2014 at 2:34 PM ^

Cosigned.  

I knew something was afoot when they said there would be a reduction in price. 

Last year was brutal trying to make the earlier start time so that the BTN could show the games.  I know first world problems and all, but our section would be 1/2 empty until the middle of the second period thanks to 6 pm puck drops.  

I renewed my seats, but man...talk about getting hosed.  Fair would have been rotating out the Joe game for the outdoor fest.  One year isn't going to make or break the Joe.  

Texagander

August 12th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^

He respectfully disagreed with you and you went off on him. Not sure that was justified. Space Coyote's optimism and logic is one of the best things on this board. I usually find myself agreeing with him.



As a season ticket holder this must suck , but the experience of seeing the best game of the season outside at a great venue should count for something.



The AD has many faults. But some of his decisions are liked by others. They just don't always have their own blog.

Space Coyote

August 12th, 2014 at 1:01 PM ^

I'm trying not to be snide back, because it's not generally my style. But alright. I don't tend to post a ton when I agree with your points, which is about 90% of the time. Why would I? What you say carries a ton of weight with Michigan fans, my saying "agree" adds microscopic levels of weight in addition to anything you provide.

So, in general, I tend to only remark when I disagree with something, because that's something that seems, to me, to be worth while to bring up a different point of view. It brings about discussion, debate, and sometimes there are some people that agree with some of what I say. I guess voicing my opinion on your blog contrary to yours, when I do, is disrespectful. Fine. I'll post "agree" for all the things I agree with you about to even it out. I don't post here enough, spend enough time on here enough, and all that anyway. I'll be a profession mgoblog poster who says agree 90% of the time and disagree the other 10%.

You've attacked me several times. Fine. You say I'm disrespectful fine. You give this backhanded comment "He's excellent at "respectfully disagreeing"" just like you say "I make some concessions so I don't look insane". You have been excellent at insulting me without really insulting me, and with giving back handed comments my direction several times now. FIne. I respect what you do, think you are a very good writer, and enjoy many of the things you have to say. There are very few people that can summarize thoughts in ways that connect to so many different people, it's why you have the following you do. Praise, praise, praise. I appreciate how your site helped me as well. Praise.

But if you actually believe that all I contribute to this site is that "All I ever do is complain", if you are that annoyed with me to the point where you call me disrespectful, then ban me. Seriously. I won't come back under another name. I'll read without signing in, I won't be a member of the board anymore. If you don't like me that much than do it. It's not a threat, it's just get it over with so we know where we each stand.

michchi85

August 12th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^

I find what you write very insightful, and I enjoy you more than anyone else on the site besides Brian.  You provide a different perspective that this blog needs, and you resonate with many posters.  Keep doing what you are doing, and if Brian wants to get rid of you, I'd imagine several other posters would leave too.  

xxxxNateDaGreat

August 12th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^

Please don't leave. I feel I can safely say that I am one of many who really enjoy your write ups here and on M n' B and it would be a fucking crime if this site were to lose you. You're write ups are killer and you are one of the few people here who can disagree with someone and bring a calm and well reasoned arguement to the table in the middle of an all out flamewar.

For real, if you get banned, I will fucking boycott and petition this site. I am not joking.

Space Coyote

August 12th, 2014 at 1:26 PM ^

I've made that general claim before, and was in general persuaded back by some others both openly here and behind the scenes. Not that I was upset to come back, like I said, I enjoy the site and enjoy participating in the comments. I just want full disclosure on where lines on where lines are drawn. I've let this stuff slide before from up above, and tried in general not to respond to some of what Brian has said about me, but it gets to the point where I need to stand up for myself if he's going to keep calling me out like this.

That's all I'm getting at. Not threatening to leave or stop posting, just making my point clear.

TIMMMAAY

August 12th, 2014 at 1:27 PM ^

I think you're a great member of this community, I just want to say that first. I appreciate the insight that you give, even when I don't agree with what you're saying. Having said that, I definitely see why Brian reacted the way he did here, even if he could have handled it better.

You have steadfastly defended the AD, Borges, and a lot of other things that people have bitched about on here for the past couple years. You do seem to play the contrarian an awful lot, and that can get wearisome to a lot of people (at times, I'm one of those people (what do you mean, those people?)). 

There were times when I defended Borges as well, but as last season went on, I just couldn't do it anymore. There was too much damning evidence against him, including his past coaching history. You continued to try to rationalize why we had all of the problems that we did. MAC offenses were better than we could show, yet you still defended Borges. 

Our AD has proven time and time, and time again that they are woefully out of touch with their fanbase. They make no genuine effort to try to figure out why, and DB is well known to talk down to anyone who doesn't "get" what he's forcing down our collective throats. He is incredibly obtuse, and has an ego that doesn't seem to allow him to actually listen. He is killing the Golden Goose, no two ways about it. He repeatedly shits on the most loyal fans, in order to pander to the unwashed masses, and even his attempts at said pandering are wide of the mark. He does not get it. He will never get it. You don't seem to get that. 

Just assume for a moment, just for a moment, that Brian is largely correct in his opinion of DB. Where do you think our program would be 10-20 years from now if nobody stands up and says "enough already"? I think I know where the Regents stand. How about you? 

aplatypus

August 12th, 2014 at 2:23 PM ^

"you politely and intelligently disagree with our angry mob rule, so despite probably knowing more about actual football than anyone else on this site, Brian included, we're going to respond with RABBLE RABBLE SHUT UP YES MAN NO ONE LIKES YOU DJFLKASJDF AND EVERYTHING YOU SAY CLEARLY IS PERSONALLY DIRECTED AT BRIAN"

reshp1

August 12th, 2014 at 1:30 PM ^

I respect both of you guys, but this spat is pretty fucking juvenile.

Brian, Ad Hominem attacks have always been frowned upon here and you shouldn't get a free pass. God forbid people hold opposing view points. Just shut down the comments if you really want your pulpit to yourself.

SC, please drop the "If I'm not wanted here" bit. It was off putting last year when you rage quit (and then came back), it's off putting now. Most everyone here respects and values your contributions, no need to gloat about it (even if that's not your intention, it comes off as such)

It's going to be a long season if this keeps going. Personally, I would much rather listen to you guys continue to respectfully debate the finer points of games and plays and leave out all the pissyness.

Space Coyote

August 12th, 2014 at 1:43 PM ^

I'm certainly not "rage quitting' again. I made that mistake. I don't want to leave the board. I enjoy taking part in these comments. I don't think most posters want me to leave. But if Brian wants to keep making Ad Hominem attacks, I'd rather he ban me and get it done with so we don't have to deal with this whole thing again. I've let Brian do this without ever responding to him other than to apologize and keep in the good graces of some of the others. But I'm also not typically the type that just takes thsi stuff and consistently stands down. So, in that way, that's why I made it clear my intentions to stay, but if Brian is that annoyed with me that he feels the need to go this route, then make my decision for me, because I'm not leaving on my own.

Brian

August 12th, 2014 at 1:41 PM ^

You realize that on almost every UFR and Picture Pages last year you were saying I was wrong and that nothing was really Borges's fault, to the point where I was directly responding to you on the front page, right? 

http://mgoblog.com/content/picture-pages-various-plays-no-interest

And after the season they fired Borges after Michigan finished last in the country in TFL allowed. Darrell Funk is still here. You spent the entire year defending the guy who got fired! Who former NFL DEs are mocking by way of trying to evaluate Taylor Lewan! I took so much shit from you last year and you were just so, so wrong.

And now you're in this thread, chiding me for being upset that my season hockey ticket now doesn't have an MSU game that I already paid for, as if that shouldn't make me mad. It doesn't matter how reasonable you are when you make your assertions: those assertions are insulting. 

But they just keep coming, and now they come paired with martyrdom. I'm not going to ban you, but good god man. Please see it from my perspective since you're so good at seeing it from everyone else's.

Space Coyote

August 12th, 2014 at 2:04 PM ^

And I thought there were bigger issues than playcalling. Despite the fact that I consistently said there were problems with coaching, that never seemed to resinate. I thought the problems lied more in other areas, you disagreed, that's fine, at the time, there was nothing wrong with the disagreement. I also said if Hoke decided to move on from Borges after the season that I would believe it was the correct decision. Not being privy to the things behind the scenes, I didn't feel comfortable knowing all the logic behind the reasons he made. I tend to believe peopel tend to utilize logic when making decisions though, maybe that makes me nieve.

But I'm done talking Borges. You tooted the Rich Rod horn for three years despite people around the program and outside of it saying something was wrong. You finally caved in. You know what? I was right there with you. Again, I tend to think these coaches that have gotten to where they were have logic to what they do, and without knowing the behind the scenes stuff, I'm hesitate to claim otherwise. 

I almost made this comment on the board post about this the other day. This isn't just about you. It's a general feel for the fanbase. It just so happened that a comment was made on the board the other day and then again today, and I thought I'd say something.

I admitted to seeing your perspective above. And in many cases I do see your perspective. Again, when I do, I tend to say nothing, which is the majority of the time. When there is something that I have an opposing view on, I say something. Usually that's about a small portion of something you write, because I tend to agree with most of it. I also wish you could in general try to see my perspective on things. Instead I get these attacks, which eventually I'm going to react to. Insinuating that all I add to the board is complaints is insulting to me, as well. There, I've said my part here.

And that's all I've got to say about that.

\Forrest_Gump

HollywoodHokeHogan

August 12th, 2014 at 4:40 PM ^

I don't think SpaceCoyote is gsimmons is either.  I didn't mean for the "interesting pattern" thing to suggest that.  I just thought it was interesting that another coach who defended a coach got tired of this blog's (might not have been Brian so much as the message board posters in gsimmons case)  persistant criticism.   Like it or not, this blog fosters a good deal of group-think behavior.  For a long time you couldn't say a bad word about Rich Rod without a full-flame war breaking out.  There's some evidence from the turn-around at Texas that GERG  isn't a total space-cadet-- though WTF was that beaver?-- but he'll forever be a total moron around here.  I think the vitroil directed at coaches is difficult for other coaches to deal with.

gsimmons85

August 13th, 2014 at 6:52 PM ^

hollywood,

 

but its also the  umpire effect.

 

what i mean by that is if you ever umpired a little league game or officated a basketball game,  you see things from a different perspective when you go back to being a fan.   you understand more why a certain call was made, or how one could have been missed, or even who should have been in possition to make a call that you had to make that might be critized, but wasnt really your fault.   

Im not saying coaches are the only ones that understand football, i am just saying (like i did all those years)  that coaches have a dual perspective.  Fan and coach.  I dont study Michigan football, i never have.  Im just a fan who happens to be a coach, and have a more intimate understanding of what goes into it.  Thats all.

I didnt enjoy trying to explain that, so thats why i dont try anymore.  Its not anyones fult, and its not a right and wrong thing,  its just persepctives that cant be explained, and also cant be forgoten. 

I cant pretend to understand what its like to be a michigan alumni,   so for the most part i dont try to.   i also cant pretend to be just a fan of football, as much as i would like too, 16 years of coaching it keeps me from being able to always just enjoy watching.  

as a personal note, to this day when i am asked to speak about our defense, i still give credit to Shafer,   still in my mind one of the best defensive minds around.  

ca_prophet

August 12th, 2014 at 8:15 PM ^

"I took so much shit from you last year and you were just so, so wrong."

I think he was contributing in a positive way to the discussion, and don't see him giving you shit so much as defending the guy you thought was dragging our beloved football team into the crapper, which caused you to say fuck it and go bowling.

If you think he was just giving you shit, you should ban him. If you think that no matter what he says, he's against you, then put us out of your misery.

Otherwise, and I request this with all due respect, please stop demonizing Space Coyote for Borges's sins.

Mr. Yost

August 12th, 2014 at 12:49 PM ^

Brian posted back.

He's pissed. I'd tread softly people...I'm too lazy to find the post/thread about not needing a "real" reason to ban people. But tread softly.

And this isn't to Space Coyote who is a huge contributor on this blog.

--------------------------------------------

As for my thoughts on this...I definitely think it sucks for diehard season ticket holders...but I also understand of evolving with the times. Not everything can always be the way it was.

I don't want UNIFOMZ, but I understand their purpose. I don't even care of night games to be honest, but it's a great atmosphere, it builds young fan base, it's nationally televised, I get it. 

If this gets Michigan/MSU on national TV and off BTN for a game, then it's pretty cool. If it enhances relationships for Michigan and Michigan in the Chicago area where there are a lot of young and/or wealthy alumni, I get it. 

I personally enjoy the experience in Yost more than Crisler or The Big House (even though I love those with all my heart)...so I understand why it's upsetting, but in the end, for me...it's one game and there is benefit to it.

I'm more upset that OSU/MSU are on the same year in football than I could ever be about this, UNIFORMZ, night games, or any changes Brandon gets blamed for.

BTW, people on this blog give Brandon waaaay too much power. He's not behind every single decision. Sure he has the power to veto anything, but if an entire team and it's sport supervisor come to him and say "we want to do this..." that is going to carry a lot of weight.

If a donor says "I'll give you this, if you do this..." that's going to carry a lot of weight. Those are things ADs are paid to assess and analyze to see if it's worth it. Brandon may not even agree with some of these decisions, at least not personally...but sometimes you have to go against things for the greater good.

For example, and this is an extreme hypothetical just to prove my point. If Adidas came to Brandon and said "We want you to wear all maize uniforms for UTL4 and we'll give you an additional 10% off everything Adidas for your entire University." Michigan probably already gets 55-60% off everything...taking that to 65-70% could be huge for football and all of the other sports. But is it worth it? I don't know...that's an ADs decision. If you don't do it you're going to have to explain why you turned down millions of dollars in this economy. Do it, and you're pissing off all of these fans for the one game you trot out on the field looking like flashlights.

I'm sure he's faced with similar decisions when it comes to scheduling. I'm positive he doesn't make the schedule for every team either...in fact, most ADs only work on football and they have other administrators who supervise other sports and handle scheduling for those teams (he would just have to sign off). 

He probably gets all kinds of requests. What if there was a donor that said "I'll donate 10 million to the hockey program and if you promise to play one game vs. MSU in Chicago?" That's probably worth looking into. Far more than a parent of a 5-star RB that says "if you promise to schedule one game in San Diego, I'll send my son to your school." That's probably a quick "sorry sir/ma'am, but that's not going to happen."

So if the TEAM wants to play at Soldier Field, the coaches want it for recruiting and exposure, the Associate AD for the hockey team wants it...Brandon's hands are kind of tied at point. Why would he tell his team, coaches and admin all no? He's supposed to be there for them just like he's supposed to be there for his fans/alumni. 

It's a balancing act. One he's not great at - but in the end...everything isn't always his fault either.

Sorry for the rant...but in the end, it's just one game. I'm sure there's a reasonable benefit for the UofM Men's Hockey program and Michigan or they wouldn't be doing it. 

Oh and Borges? He had to go. Period. I watched the UofM/NW game last night from last year and almost threw up at how BAD he was. 

Go Blue.

Big Blue Ball

August 12th, 2014 at 1:01 PM ^

i can understand many of you points concerning DB's decisions.  However, after you post a schedule AND sell the tickets for event, changing venues and voiding tickets WITHOUT refunds........that's wrong.  and possibly criminal.