By May Jim Tressel Will Be A Pakistani Shepherd
hope you like sweatervests made from your own wool, sheeps
I mean, right?
When Ohio State football coach Jim Tressel learned last spring that some of his current players were in trouble, he shared the information with someone he thought could help his star quarterback even though he said he didn't tell his bosses.
Tressel forwarded the information to Ted Sarniak, a mentor to Terrelle Pryor, after the coach received emails warning that Pryor and at least one other player had sold memorabilia to a local tattoo-parlor owner who was under federal investigation for drug trafficking, multiple sources have confirmed to The Dispatch.
Sarniak is the "shady, cop-bribing handler whose glass business suddenly blew up" when Pryor materialized in Columbus according to Slow States. Unfortunately, no matter how hard I stare at "glass business suddenly blew up" a link does not appear under it. He's also the guy who spurred the most wackily conspiratorial post* in the history of MGoBlog since it was his Corvette Pryor infamously borrowed—seriously, how many cars can Terrelle Pryor drive that he does not own?
I'm not sure this particular item tightens the noose in the eyes of the NCAA, but if Sarniak got a forward that doesn't help any case they're going to try to make about the emails not being credible or Tressel not taking them seriously or forgetting about them. It's also hard to imagine an email worth forwarding to your sketchy Pryor advisor that doesn't get sent to, like, compliance. At best Tressel was trying to end-around the system to keep his guys eligible. At worst the stuff at the press conference about how Tressel was the only one who knew was as true as everything else.
*[One that now stands a 50-50 chance of being correct despite being essentially message board drivel.]
I'm just meaning effectively (i.e. Brian would be supportive, Misopogon wouldn't be writing diaries to keep him, and reasoned heads would prevail).
I agree about the presser. DB would put on the baby powder on national TV and MSC wouldn't be kind either, much less making jokes.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:54 PM ^
I suppose it shouldn't surprise me that UofM fans hate the OSU coach, but I guess one of the many things I've been surprised about in all this is that you guys do really hate Tressel. I always thought the Senator persona made him less abrasive to opposing fan bases, but I guess I could see how the opposite might be true. I never hated Carr, but I remember hating Bo (only cuz my dad and grandpa did, because I was too young to hate for any other reason.) I guess I always thought JT was more comparable Carr than Bo, because JT's not like Woody or Bo were in the media: outspoken, hateful, etc.
IMO, the reason we (collectively) hate Tressel is because there has always been smoke around him, unlike Carr. Also, like Carr, he went his whole career untouched. I don't think many reasonable people in Columbus had reason to believe Carr was dirty, but it seems we up here do.
Loaner cars, Tat Five, NCAA 10.1's, Clarret, YSU. And yet everyone seems to think he has some high moral standing. You're right about the relation to Carr in the media: now imagine if Carr had done the same thing. I would think that even if it was in March of '98, M would have fired him for lying to the NCAA. Think of your reaction then.
I guess I can see that. It's probably because I've had blinders on as a homer, but I've always seen the OSU troubles as separate from Tressel, until now. MoC, Pryor driving Corvettes, etc. is all a part of college athletics to me. There are gonna be bad apple recruits that no one, no matter what they do, can stop from getting greedy, trying to cash in early on their talents and what they think are their rightful rewards for hard work and God-given talent. And I always saw it, again homerishly maybe, that Tressel stopped it when he found out about it, not Tressel turned a blind eye or Tressel facilitated it or anything like that. And even dispite the recent evidence to the contrary, I think this case is the exception not the rule. But maybe (and by that I guess I'm admitting definitely) that's because I'm biased.
But if Tressel has been a serial liar, cheater and a scumbag, he's done a great job of hiding it and he suddenly lost his touch on how to hide and cover this stuff up.
Personally I don't hate Tressel as a person, and generally didn't dislike him as a coach (hated him because he coached OSU, but respected the fact that he was good at his job and seemed on the up and up). But I've thought for a long time that OSU had a lot of smoke around it, and really only avoided getting hit for it because of Tressel's rep, which was kind of annoying.
But now Tressel's rep is completely blown up, in terms of his willingness to adhere to NCAA rules. On top of everything OSU has been busted for under Tressel (e.g., the workhorse of their NC campaign got money and fabricated grades, their Heisman winning QB took money, 5 of their current biggest names all busted), there's plenty of other questions that won't ever get answered; e.g., the break in at Hawk's apartment, Gamble's association with the booster who paid Smith, the Holmes allegations, etc. Basically, the list of big name players under Tressel with shady stuff surrounding them is pretty long, and the argument that it's all a series of unrelated isolated incidents (i.e., the "bad apple recruits" argument) looks more and more improbable.
I don't think Tressel actively facilitated any of this stuff. But it's seeming more and more likely that he at least kept himself willfully ignorant of it.
to compare Carr, who was a terrific honorable coach, to Tressel, who is a liar and a cheater.
Public perception of the two was similar though. The what if... game only really works if you use Carr. Who, undoubtedly, is more honorable than Tressel and I respect him highly for his integrity.
I respect him as a coach, how could you not? But this looks pretty bad, and i think some anger comes because I think he works pretty hard to put out an image of an upright, "all I want is for the kids to grow" persona. And maybe he does care about those things. But now we know for sure that he cares about winning more.
That is also one of the things that I've found surprising, that you may be right. I always he thought he valued off-the-field over the on-the-field. But honestly, I think this one incident only shows that he valued on-the-field over off-the-field in this one case, and I wouldn't even say it was a choice of one above the other here, necessarially. Obviously he could have done a better job at addressing the off-the-field concerns by going to the compliance office, but maybe he did address these things with the players behind closed doors. Maybe not.
But I still KNOW, not think, that JT values the off-the-field stuff a whole lot. He still raises lots of money for cancer research, for the troops, for schools, etc. He still takes time to write answer letters to 7th graders wishing them the best of luck in class. He visits the hospital when a fan is sick. He still honors soliders at practice, at games and in the offseason. He makes his players learn about the history of the team, like he did this year with the 1942 team that won a championship and fought a war. I know he does things that only an honorable guy would do. I don't think he does that to cover up for his real personality. If it is, he is really, really good at covering it all up.
Here's the thing. Tressel lying about this doesn't make him evil. Even if he lied before. No doubt he does good in the community, and when I say I "hate" him for being (seemingly) phony to me, hate obviously isn't the right word (easy to "hate" sports figures from afar - it's not realy hate).
But it's hard to find a coach that makes millions that doesn't raise money in the community and take part in local charitable ventures... that's not to take away from it. It's a reason I've loved Carr for so long, his commitment to the local community. It's just that you can blatantly violate a major NCAA rule and still do good. But the latter doesn't justify the former.
Well yeah, Woody did great things for the community, the troops, the hospital, and his players. But there is no way I can defend some of things he did as a coach. They can be separate things. The heat of competition can take over and turn even the most pious and upright man into an evil monster.
I know several former players that say they would take a bullet for that man. And I know Tressel isn't an angel. He's not perfect. But he's also no Nick Saban. Even after Clarrett threw him under the bus in the investigation, Tressel went to bat for him to get him back into school because he felt everyone deserves a second chance. I don't think that's something the Les Miles' or the Nick Sabans of the world would do. They oversign, throw those kids to the curb and don't blink twice about doing it.
There is no reason to confuse Tressel's good works in his personal life with ethics in his professional life.
Being a Christian, or giving to charity, or supporting the troops, or writing letters to children has absolutely nothing to do with whether not Tressel violated the NCAA's rules.
Tressel can be found guilty of major NCAA violations and still be a very good man.
"I always he thought he valued off-the-field over the on-the-field."
It's really hard to see how you could have drawn that conclusion. Name one instance where he gave a starter punishment to the real detriment of the team. I'm not saying he never did, but I sure can't think of an instance where he did.
His approach toward discipline has, from my perspective, always been comically Bowden-esque.
and there are several caring, giving priests who have molested children.
many of the highest moral people can turn out to be evil.
and no, i'm not comparing tressel's transgressions to this, just people having blinders on.
To be fair, I've hated Tress because I've suspected he was a charlatan. And OSU people I know wrote that off as me being bitter that he was succeeding against UM.
Truth may lie in between, but the reason a UM fan can like RichRod despite his failure here is that for all his faults, he didn't seem to hide them (nor know how to). He wasn't a phony, he really was just dim and probably too frank. Tress is the opposite. Polished. "Senatorial." And always struck me as a phony.
Most Michigan fans that I know don't hate Tressel. In my corner of the world, people seem to really dislilke Dantonio in a more personal way than Tressel, who we just dislike beating Michigan all the time. That's certainly true for me.
However, if Tressel turns out to be a big liar, liar pants on fire ain't no Michigan fan gonna shed a tear if the NCAA nukes him.
Also, if it goes badly for Tressel all this pious, holier-than-thou stuff will certainly come back to bite him. People love little more than to take down a hypocrite.
Just to be clear (although it's probably too late and too far down) I wasn't trying to speak for everyone, just the M fans who really dislike Tressel.
Hate was too strong of a word, I'll definitely admit that.
From my perspective (outside of Michigan) Dantonio is more of an afterthought compared to Tressel; I'm also dating a girl from Ohio, my most recent ex is at OSU and my best friend is a huge fan, so my perspective could admittedly be off.
I personally don't hate Tressel, and I think most of our fanbase didn't. I, for one, respected the hell out of him coming out in support of us when we were undergoing Freepgate. I think a lot of the M base actually didn't hate him, but I think a lot of them/us feel duped after this fiasco and maybe there's some deep-seeded feeling of "god, I respected OSU's coach, I can't believe myself! I should've known he was a shady bastard" going on.
I live in Ohio. Children only understand one thing.The OSU fans in this state need to be put in time-out. Not so much to punish the program or the Institution, but the fans. I'm telling you it's out of control. Any Michigan fan living in this state knows what I mean.
I hope Tressel stays until the day he lies his way into getting OSU the death penalty. Once a liar, always a liar. Tressel will be good for OSU football.
And to those who say we need OSU in order to keep our rivalry with them I say Michigan football is much bigger than that rivalry. Screw Ohio State, they get what they deserve and obviously want.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:50 PM ^
Youngstown St was punished by the ncaa a number of times for actions that occurred while Tressell was the head coach there. Wasn't one of those times because Tressell failed to properly investigate possible ncaa violations?
tressell has hundreds of other violations under his watch.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:27 PM ^
So vacated wins, championship(s), and season(s) along with potential future punitive measures of unknown sorts are acceptable enough to OSU fans that Tressel should stay?
God that place is a mess...
March 25th, 2011 at 12:36 PM ^
I have yet to see what the sancations will be, but I'm guess it will be vacated wins, maybe not the whole season, but maybe. Lying to the NCAA is not acceptable. Those sancations would be acceptable punishment for that offense. Should the punishment include firing Jim Tressel? I personally do not think so. Neither does JT's boss, fortunately for me. If it happens again, I'm sure he will be fired. Not firing him does not mean we accept cheating and lying.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:43 PM ^
(1) You're right. Every 10.1 case is different. But then I wouldn't cling to the Bruce Pearl case too closely (his was worse!) - as you said, they're all different. Tress' appears to be pretty bad.
(2) Maybe OSU already knew these facts. But you're really confident - surprisingly so - that the NCAA won't investigate OSU any further, and uncover anything else. Look, I'm a UM fan - I'm biased. Maybe Clarett was a lying liar who lied about all the cash/goods stolen from his car and that JT knew nothing of it. Maybe AJ Hawk accidentally added two zeros to the $3K cash he claimed was stolen from him, and JT knew nothing of it. Maybe these Denali/corvette test drives are on the up and up and JT knew nothing of it. Again, maybe.
But you realy seem confident that the NCAA will either (a) not dig any deeper into Tress' program; and/or (b) if they do, they won't find anything.
I mean, OK. We'll see...
Knowingly playing FIVE ineligible players for entire season absolutely will result in vacating all of the wins.
Sorry for the caps attack.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:28 PM ^
March 25th, 2011 at 12:38 PM ^
you need to move more quickly --->
March 25th, 2011 at 12:39 PM ^
the NCAA is going to Dez Bryant his a**! You remember the Okie St. WR who lost a full year for lying about his relationship with "Prime Time". This didn't allow Bryant to play 5 ineligible players for a whole year. That's the minimum that the lying scumbag is going to get. If the NCAA takes into account what happened at YSU? Can you say Bucknuts roasting on an open fire.
If the Big Ten is stupid enough to fall for a 48 hour test drive out of state with a Denali to a college kid with no income from a poor family shame on them. Pryor couldn't afford the car. No sh#t! I want to see a regular student at OSU in the same financial situation who has been allowed to do the same. If the dealership can't provide one you have got yourself an improper benefit.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:43 PM ^
WAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWWAWAWAWAWAWAW
(wait I'm out of breath) ..... WAWAWAWAWAAWAW !
Hey Gee, try this one ..... If the glove don't fit ... you must acquit !
WAWAAWAAWAAAA !!!
Go Blue !
Are you talking about Bucksfan?
I don't think he/she is being all that troll-ish. He/she is making some arguments and stating opinions without being inflammatory about it.
EDIT: And yes, I realize this comment appears right above Bucksfan's Fisher comparison.
Thanks.
I really am not trying to start a flame war. I just think I should try to represent the Buckeye side of the story. I love coming here for the UofM side of things. There are lots of knowledgable, rational people here to talk to about these kinds of things.
I was born and raised in Ohio, then I moved to just outside Ann Arbor in high school. So I've been debating Buckeyes with UofM fans for years. It's forced me from growing up a casual fan to be a die hard. I had to be the face of the Buckeyes to all my friends. I had to defend them everyday at school, work, the grocery store, etc. So why stop now? I still believe Tressel is the best coach for the job at OSU. I still want him there. I really hope he doesn't get fired. I don't think he will.
I grew up in Northwest Ohio, been a Michigan Fan my whole life. I went to OSU in the 90's when UM ruled OSU. I even wore a Michigan shirt underneath my gown just to piss off my classmates during graduation. Now I live in Ypsilanti.
I will never praise OSU. Did you even go there? The stuff they did to all opposition at football was deplorable. It didn't matter which college was there, cars were turned over, windows busted, fires started, fights, etc. In bowl games, they cheer for all the teams playing against B1G Ten teams. Fans I grew up with had no loyalty towards our Conference.
As a graduate of that University, I am baffled that the fanbase of that school cares less that your coach lied to the University and the NCAA. It's like OSU fans have a disease and you're so rabid that you have all lost your integrity.
All we have in this world is Integrity. Tressel fails on so many levels. It's not the act of the kids that has made this issue so National, it's the lack of character and integrity Tressel showed towards his players, the University and the NCAA.
I work for one of those government agencies where you can basically get away with anything. Except lie. Doesn't matter how big or small the lie is. You're fire. It's called Lack of Candor.
Tressel lied 3x. And now we find out there was a lie within a lie because he did forward the message. He should be fired. Now.
I'm ashamed to be associated with OSU. And so should every person who ever paid money to that university for a college education.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:17 PM ^
Man you all should just thank your lucky stars Steve Fisher didn't have an email account in 1993.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:21 PM ^
Fish didn't have an email account then and yet, still, (1) he lost his job; (2) UM lost scholarships; (3) UM was banned from the post season; (4) UM was put on probation; and (5) UM had to vacate seasons worth of victories, including the Final Four.
But no - you're right. Tress is totally fine. I wouldn't worry about any more paper trail.
and all those sanctions you note were handed down by UM.
we should have taken the osu approach - told webber and traylor to come back and finish out their eligibility at UM (would that be 1999?), making them sit out the first 10 games, then having fisher sit out with them.
man, that team would have made a great tourny run.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:23 PM ^
Why we digging up that horse to beat on? We fell on that sword already and nutted up and imposed and took punishment for that already. When will tOSU grow up and do the same?
March 25th, 2011 at 12:46 PM ^
It was a joke. You guys didn't imagine hilarious Fish-to-Ed Martin emails when you saw this? Ok, maybe I can see why not.
and I don't think the OSU thing is funny. I think it's dispicable. If you make a mistake, freaking own up to it.
i got the joke. fyi, people in our neck of the woods are a little touchy about this (myself included) because of the BS we dealt with recently about stretching. We're all a little annoyed by the hypocricy of it all.
See, I originally came on here and was surprise how unsympathetic the UofM fan base was to all this. But really, that was foolish, because Stretchgate is waaaaay less than this. I'll be one of the first Buckeye fans to say I felt bad for you guys with that whole thing, because 1) it was nothing and 2) it was an attack by your own local media, aimed, IMO, entirely (and seemingly for no reason) at your new coach. That was really shitty and not deserving of the national attention it got. Now do I think all this Tatgae stuff deserves all the attention it's getting, no, but certainly understand why it is happening. I think hate from the irrational masses never ceases to amaze me. I should be used to it, and I never am.
1. your coach allows 5 ineligible players to play all year and lies about it.
2. your AD and Prez hand down a penalty of 2 games and $200k, when he makes multi-millions.
3. your Prez says he's happy coach doesn't fire him.
osu showed the entire country what a joke that institution is as a result of that presser. and it's only getting worse.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:45 PM ^
....this is symbolic of your last comment.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:58 PM ^
That is indeed funny Bucksfan. I can see the humor in that post without getting all defensive like.
Oh, and Burn Tressel Burn!!!
A Buckeye fan who sees the truth. Sarniak is your Ed Martin hopefully. The difference between us and you tho is that we were ashamed by what happened and fired Fisher without proof. You sad people even have the smoking emails and are denying there is a problem.
Not your Carr now? So, I'm guessing you are also changing your view about what should happen to Tressel, so everything that happened to Fisher and his program happens to OSU....
<br>
<br>Because THIS comparison I can see.
FIsher paid for his crime, you piece of shit. He got fired. We took our lumps. Now it's time to take yours.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:18 PM ^
A vast majority of the folks here in CBus are still seeing everything through scarlet colored glasses. Too many of them do not understand that the issue is no longer that the players sold their wears, it is that the coach knew they had violated NCAA rules and did not report it when he was notified.
It is incredibly nerve racking living here and listening to everyone complain that it is a witch hunt when in fact there is a trail of information that goes on for miles that not only did the players exercise poor judgement, but their coach, their mentor, their guiding light also stepped on his man hood and made the ultimate blunder in thinking that if he ignored the situation it would go unnoticed.
March 25th, 2011 at 12:24 PM ^
of losing to those aholes any easier? Why yes, yes it does, in fact now we can say that OSU could only beat us during the down years while they were cheating their lying butts off. HAHAHAHA!
Tressel will have a new book out soon:
Jim and God or How to get YSU and OSU on probation while looking senatorial.
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