Mailbag: Lear, Rudock Deep, Punt Agonies, Whoville Comment Count

Brian

Pretty much

As flies to wanton boys are we to th' gods,
They kill us for their sport.

Scott

What's going on with Rudock?

Brian - you made some comments today on the podcast about how Jake Rudock's inability to hit the deep ball has finally bitten us in the collective asses, which I agree. You also mentioned that when you watched him last year, while he wasn't dead-on every time, he was able to hit the deep pass from time to time - something he clearly can't do this year.

My question is this - to me, this does not seem like a 'new coach, new system' type of a problem. Those issues seem to be the ones where he fails to even attempt a throw to a wide open receiver (which he does all the time - but I give him more of a pass for that as the "new system / new coach" issue). But when he throws the deep pass, only inaccurately - that suggests to me an issue with maybe his mechanics or something else that has thrown off his accuracy past 15 yards. Any thoughts why that might be? If anything, I would expect his deep accuracy to improve with a guy like Harbaugh teaching him the fundamentals. Again, I separate this from other issues such as "stares down Butt" or "ignores screamingly open routes every once in awhile."

Thanks,
Jeff

Yeah, you got me. Some of the Rudock problems are issues that make sense given what we saw from him at Iowa. Not throwing at sort of covered Jake Butt on second and goal from the 18 is a Rudock problem I can understand. That is his reputation. Rudock not  finding receivers is a problem I can understand. He's in a new system.

Rudock underthrowing Amara Darboh by about 20 yards is inexplicable. Any quarterback is going to be off on some long throws; to miss as often and as badly as Rudock has is not something that I saw last year. That's not just homerdom. Preseason, PFF put out an article titled "Michigan can win with QB Jake Rudock" that noted he was 12th in downfield (20+ yards in the air) accuracy by their system last year. In the Maryland game, BTN had a similar stat:

rudock not so much

The disparity is certainly bigger now.

I don't know if he's hurt or his mechanics are messed up or what, but for whatever reason his ability to hit downfield passes has collapsed. Why? I dunno. Is there something different in what he's doing here?

2014

2015

Since one is in the middle of the field and one on the sideline. Those are throws of about the same length. Am I crazy or does the 2015 video look like a guy who's loading up to get it as far as he can while 2014 sees Rudock make a throw that's comfortably within his range? I dunno.

Something is wrong. A problematic injury, possibly one that caused the weird Iowa QB depth chart thing, is a possible explanation. The other explanation is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ref hot take

Brian:

Having read Seth’s analysis of the officiating (and you really should make him do that weekly) my question is why – why did this happen to us?  If you ascribe these “errors” to incompetence, shouldn’t there be an equal number of blown calls going in our favor?  Incompetent referees should be just as likely to screw things up for team A as team B and over the course of a 60 minute game shouldn’t it balance relatively out if they are simply incompetent?

The obvious alternative to incompetence is the officials had an agenda and carried it out.  Granted, we still should’ve won the game but with so many critical calls being made against Michigan it made the game much closer than it needed to be and allowed the last play to finally tip the scale in MSU’s favor.   And if it’s an agenda – why does it exist?

What say you?  Incompetence, agenda or something else?

MGrowOld

If you flip a coin a million times there are going to be stretches in there where you get a long series of heads or tails. Michigan just ate an game that was virtually all tails. There's no need for a further explanation. Over the past decade or so it's been definitively proven that the replay officials are not good enough at their job, but that's all. The Big Ten tends to use retired referees in the booth, with evidently disastrous results.

If there was any sort of "plan" here Michigan wouldn't have gotten a free touchdown when their receiver barely scraped the pylon a few years back in this very game. Remember that? That call was overturned from the correct call to free TD. Replay officials should no longer be people with rotary phones. Actual officials are probably the best we've got. That sucks; not much to do about it.

[After THE JUMP: HSPs future, Whoville analogy, we should have done this or that]

Hybrid space players of the future

With the success of Jabrill Peppers in the HSP role and the HSP as the future of defense, what does the future of the position look like for Michigan? Michigan could have as little as one more year of Peppers, his replacement is likely on campus or committed right now, but it isn't clear (at least to me) who the heir apparent is? Who are your top candidates to take over the spot after Jabrill Peppers moves on to the NFL?

-Mathlete

Tyree Kinnel. Kinnel is an excellent athlete who is a corner/safety tweener, but don't just take it from me:

“Kinnel is just a great athlete. I would put him up there with guys like Cam Burrows and others like that from years past. He’s half safety and half corner. He has great coverage skills. He has good size. He is a fit kid.”

All three major recruiting services made that exact comment about Kinnel. While he's not Peppers his reputation is the kind of guy who can cover in space and lay a lick when that's required. He is, or will soon be, the heir apparent.

I mean, probably. Safety is looking mighty thin right about now. Next year Michigan will have senior versions of Hill and Thomas plus Kinnel and true freshmen. The only safety type they have committed right now is Josh Metellus, a sleeper out of Florida. Kinnel might get drafted at safety and then you're back to Countess-style nickelbacks.

Acquiring safeties is a major priority in recruiting the rest of the way.

How likely is the OSU game to be a defacto division championship now?

Enquiring minds want to know:

What is the predicted probability of State winning each of their remaining games? We need them to lose two. We have to count on them losing to the Buckeyes. What is the other game we need to pin our hopes on?  Is it at Nebraska?  Home against Penn State?  Do the Hoosiers have a chance?

Joel

If you go by the advanced stats there's a surprisingly good shot. S&P has the Spartans just 26th. If we assume a loss to OSU, S&P gives MSU just a 21% chance of winning out otherwise, with games at Nebraska and home against PSU near coinflips.

That is optimistic. The stats don't know that MSU has been missing big chunks of their OL that has returned; also the outstanding weakness of MSU's defense will be difficult for Nebraska and Penn State to take advantage of. But if MSU was in dogfights against terrible Purdue(#98) and Rutgers(#92) outfits, every game on the schedule is losable. Except Maryland.

All of the infinite "we should have done X" emails.

This can stand in as a proxy for the rest:

In a situation like the one M found itself in on Saturday, have you ever heard of or seen a team put a man back behind the punter, sort of like the safety man on a kneel?  He could protect against a high or low snap that goes past the punter, or in the case like Saturday, or a simple block, he's there for a potential tackle.  Might be silly to plan for catastrophe like that but high/low snaps, bobbled snaps, and blocked punts collectively are not uncommon.  And I can't help think that if Pepper was ten yards behind Blake we might be having a different conversation right now.

In Jim we trust,
Tim

Yeah, that would have been better than having Jourdan Lewis amble downfield by himself. Yes, they probably should have been in whatever formation they have for punts from their own goal line. No, they shouldn't have tried something weird or fancy to drain the last ten seconds. It took both a fumbled snap and a very bad decision afterward and that bad decision ending up directly in the hands of a guy running full speed for that to happen on a play that won't happen for another 20 years across CFB.

Practice time is limited and better spent on things that had won the game until a series of highly improbable things all happened at once.

But yeah next time have a safety.

Whoville man

Hi Brian,

I've encountered something odd, and after looking around, it's more common then I thought. It seems that Spartan fans, are angry that Michigan fans, aren't as upset, as they feel we should be. They want us to be devastated. To admit that it was the most gut wrenching, soul stealing thing that's ever happened in our lives. The fact that most of us are keeping things in prospective... this is Harbaugh first year, building a culture, waiting for a QB to make his offense go, ect.... well, it's disturbing a lot of Spartans. They feel like this should be a referendum loss. That this loss should define Michigan, and Harbaugh.

It's almost to the point they're more upset about us not being upset, then they are happy about winning. I even heard Wojo talking about this strange phenomena. He said it reminded him of, the Grinch stealing Christmas, yet all the people in Whoville coming out and singing... and the Grinch perplexed as to why... that's Spartan fans right now.

Chris

For real. Twitter's been interesting this week. I put up the game column and had a pile of Spartans descend on me for calling their trash program for what it is. Sorry guys, but if you play a guy who pulled a gun on someone this summer and repeatedly try to injure Michigan players once a game is decided and have a linebacker suspended from the Rose Bowl for still-undisclosed reasons that your beat writers scramble to cover up and run all the way from the other endzone to taunt the Michigan student section, I am going to call your program trash. You can call me whatever you want; the difference is that I don't care and won't read it.

OSU fans, too. Eleven Warriors just put up a boutique site dedicated to the bad things that have happened over the past eight years thanks to Michigan's "institutional arrogance"; I pointed out that a school that…

  • had its last coach fired for repeatedly lying to the NCAA
  • went undefeated and missed a bowl game because their athletic director thought they could get away with the previous bullet point without a post-season ban
  • actually calls itself THE Ohio State University

…accusing anyone else of institutional arrogance was ironic, and RIP my mentions.

I mean, at this point I've seen a lot of bad things. After the immediate stun effect of that game I was more or less fine. As I said in the game column, it's clear where this is going and I'm just happy to have actual football back in my life. If this happens when M has a big opportunity in year five they I might get shook up. Right now I am calm because I like where this is going… and rivals are foaming at the mouth at me for that take.

Previous stops are not this stop

MGoBloggers,

What is the likely Harbaugh tenure at Michigan if all goes according to plan?  And by “according to plan” I mean successful seasons of 10+ wins, BCS bowls, and possibly an NC?  Am I unrealistic to think 5 years is too much considering he doesn’t coach for more than 4 years at each organization he’s been at?

Thanks,

Jordan Davis

Harbaugh left his coaching stops before San Francisco because they were steps up the coaching ladder, not because he had "worn out his welcome." Getting the Stanford job is a great move when you're at a non-scholarship I-AA school. Getting the 49ers job is a great move when you're at Stanford.

The only actual evidence that Harbaugh can't stay in a place for a long time is what went down in San Francisco, and at this point the entire world knows who the problem actually was. Jed York's a version of Dave Brandon the 49ers can't fire.

I'm not making any promises about Harbaugh because he's an extraordinarily strong-willed guy who is not necessarily a lifer. But he's building homes here, his kids are in school here, and this is his home. I think he'll be around a good long while.

Comments

Gitback

October 22nd, 2015 at 1:24 PM ^

The taunting thing:
I guess maybe I didn't see something... But from my seats it looked like a couple of MSU players noticed that Watts-Jackson was still over in that corner injured and started running back over there, which caused others to run over to see what was going on. A few players and M students exchanged words, but from where I was the MSU players just sort of stood around wondering what was going on. I didn't see any concerted effort to taunt nor did I see the students doing much in terms of reacting. Did I miss something?



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GoBlueX2

October 22nd, 2015 at 1:58 PM ^

As soon as the game the game ended I turned my back to get out of the stadium as quickly possible. As we all know it takes a while, and so when I finally turned back around to look at the field there were a fair amount of State players either taunting the student section or running over to do the same thing. 

Gitback

October 22nd, 2015 at 2:06 PM ^

I saw the players run to that corner. I saw them standing around. I saw several around the injured player. I watched the M students all standing around looking pretty non-plused or otherwise with "tell me that didn't happen!" Looks on their faces. I saw very little interaction going on between the two groups and I stayed for about 45 minutes after kind of watching it. I just couldn't HEAR. But I had a straight shot look and it seemed pretty benign just watching it. It didn't LOOK like much was going on from my vantage point.



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dragonchild

October 22nd, 2015 at 1:39 PM ^

I would expect his deep accuracy to improve with a guy like Harbaugh teaching him the fundamentals.

I don't think Harbaugh had much time to teach Rudock anything about fundamentals.  He picked up Rudock because he quickly neededa guy who supposedly DIDN'T need a mechanical fix to swoop in and learn the playbook.  That Rudock has lost his accuracy is sort of a worst-case for Harbaugh.

If there was any sort of "plan" here Michigan wouldn't have gotten a free touchdown when their receiver barely scraped the pylon a few years back in this very game.

I don't buy comparing this game to one a few years back.  For the most part MSU hasn't needed the help (and this time they REALLY needed the help) and in this game my beef wasn't with the number of bad calls but the egregiousness of them.  Or really, one of them.

The refs tampered with Michigan's roster without cause.  At the time Michigan was up 7-0; they gave up 27 points after that.  It has fuck all to do with down & distance and everything to do with the message that bullshit call got across to the defense.

And you know what, maybe the root cause is a bunch of blind incompetents in the booth.  So?  You investigate ANYWAY.  Investigations aren't necessarily about finding guilty parties but something you do because you can't let something continue.  And the moral hazard here is that if you DON'T do anything, this game won't be an outlier because there's no correcting pressure to make sure it doesn't happen again.

And if Brian is STILL going to feign impartiality by comparing a series of human decisions to a string of coin tosses, someone else here said it best:  Any sufficient incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.  If they were out to get Michigan, the refs should be fired.  If they weren't, it's even worse.  At least we can have ethically compromised refs do Wisconsin-Purdue if they can't be trusted to keep Sparty drives alive; refs this bad make the game completely unplayable for everyone.

stephenrjking

October 22nd, 2015 at 1:48 PM ^

Reffing is hard. Think of all the referees across all sports in whom you have supreme confidence to get the calls right every time.

Yes, they were bad. Yes, most of the badness hurt Michigan. Yes, it stinks. It is not malice. It was a bad day. Everyone has bad days. Tom Brady sometimes throws three interceptions; Jake Arrieta gets bombed in the first inning; Steph Curry can't find his shooting stroke; refs blow some calls.

Remember, they blew that goal-line sequence where they called three Michigan touchdowns, two of them overturned by clear replay, the third upheld because nobody bothered to blow the whistle when they probably could have. It was a mess. 

I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing for here, other than just arguing against Brian.

dragonchild

October 22nd, 2015 at 4:07 PM ^

Yes, it stinks. It is not malice.

1) You do not know this.  Nor do I; I am making an accusation that I feel is justified given the evidence.  Your hunch does not serve as exoneration.
2) Even if we grant you can read minds, it scarcely matters. The level of the offense was bad enough that intent is almost beside the point. Refs are paid to not unduly influence the outcome and they did the EXACT opposite. This is like a firefighter pouring gasoline instead of water.  You want to know if there's intent but either way it's obviously the wrong guy for the job, period.
3) "It was a bad day" was never, NEVER an acceptable excuse in ANY job I've been in, and it's not like my jobs are easy.  A mistake could cost my employer more money than I make in ten years. If you commit incompetence on the level of fireable, you're fired.  What the hell is so special about referees that they can be THIS bad and not get any pressure whatsoever?
4) Tom Brady throws picks because he has to play against a defense.  These are about as inappropriate and idiotic examples as you can possibly present.  Refs are more analogous to factory inspectors except they're allowed to be astoundingly more incompetent.

I get that referreeing is hard and we should cut them some slack, but the key word here is "some".  The faux objectivity is beyond stubborn at this point.

stephenrjking

October 22nd, 2015 at 4:49 PM ^

So it sounds like you are, in fact, arguing malice.

There is absolutely no rational reason to argue this. There is no evidence. There is no cause. There is no precedent. The idea that a single referee or a group of referees or, even more monstrously, a conference could choose to deliberately mis-call a game for some intangible benefit, at cost of their integrity and a national scandal should be caught, is absurd.

Your "evidence" of malice is a pile of dumb calls. Yeah, it bothered me as well. But I am a rational person and I can separate my subjective view of how something is hurting something as insignificant as a football game in which I am interested from objective questions such serious violations of actual laws as conspiracy and corruption. 

Take it from someone who has spent years engaging in amused debates with fans of small schools in various sports that are feverishly convinced that Michigan is getting preferential treatment because they are the "big guys in the conference," conspiracy theories and propositions of referee malice are among the most ridiculous of the many rageful outlets of simple-minded sports fans. It's not a good look. Now, perhaps I am misreading you, since your argumentation is rather unclear, but it sounds like you are getting to that point.

And, really, you're not going to win here. You won't convince others, you won't make reasonable points, and you won't be correct.

schreibee

October 22nd, 2015 at 2:57 PM ^

I don't know how to embed - and honestly, does anyone need to see the Bolden play again? - but has ANYONE on here ever fallen down when not shit-faced drunk and NOT put their hands out to brace thier fall? Hell, even when drunk to a not-passed-out yet level we all try to put our hands out.

Quite simply, Bolden did not. He allowed his helmet to lead him into Cook's helmet, making no attempt to impede his fall. We all know this, yet we, like I imagine Bolden did at the time, feel being blocked into Cook would make it all OK. That's why even after replay, when they could clearly see Bolden being blocked, grabbed and pushed from behind, they upheld the call.

And for all - like Dragonchild - attempting to connect Bolden's ejection to msu's subsequent 27 pts, read through all the UFRs from prior weeks and find the ONLY player on Defense grading out negative...

Msu scored 27 pts with a great deal of help from the officials, but ejecting Bolden did not make the difference in the game - unless we are to assume he had suddenly transformed himself from the least effective player on the D into the most indispensible. As I told a friend when Bolden was running the perimeter waving his helmet to the crowd - Joe Bolden, a mediocre player I now LOVE FOREVER!!!

Cook had a fantastic game, targeting Burbridge again and again even though he was well covered by a player who will be 1st team AA this year. He fit passes into tight windows, and come on, who didn't think the 75-yd pass to the FB had been designed by Harbaugh himself?! Can you not help feeling that Rudock might've airmailed that throw - or bounced it?

The bad snap should not have happened; when it did Blake should've handled it differently and better; mostly we should have adjusted our punt formation when msu put no one back to return, because then even with a bad snap/drop we might have enough blockers to avoid the total catastrophe that enused.

To those who would say "Shit Happens" I ask: When will the Shit Stop Happening - to Us?!?!

 

 

ST3

October 22nd, 2015 at 3:23 PM ^

If you honestly think Bolden intentionally targetted Cook, you never played the game, right? My point is, the game isn't played in slo-motion. There's no way he's able to react that quickly and go, hey look, here's my chance to put a helmet-to-helmet hit on Cook.

schreibee

October 22nd, 2015 at 4:04 PM ^

Oh, I remember you - the guy that didn't like the movie "Chinatown"! Stopped reading your diary after that because I knew you had nothing to say that would interest me.

You don't disappoint - going with the hoariest old retort of Hoke-backers "You never played the game, right?" Seriously, you went to Michigan and that's all you got?

MY point was Bolden never attempted to break his fall - using his hands as every human's instinct tells them to. NOT that he had time to say "Hey, free helmet shot coming if I just aim my helmet right" or anything like that - just that he did NOTHING to prevent himself from landing as hard on a prone player as he possibly could. Add to that it was the QB - who had slid - making himself untouchable to boot. Clearly Bolden was pushed into Cook - and equally clearly is that he did what I described, perhaps feeling being pushed would excuse the contact?

Perhaps I'm literally the ONLY Michigan backer that saw the replay and said they would penalize Bolden - not Morgan, as we all originally thought they flagged. Even still I thought targetting and ejection were BS. But he did exactly what I described, you can say it being helmet-to-helmet was just unfortunate.

More to my point in the previous post was the mention that ejecting Bolden was crucial to the outcome - THAT'S using sparty-like rationalizing there. We're better than that on this blog.

You can't read the UFR every week and then say ejecting our least effective defensive player swung the game in their favor. Not without me calling you on it anyway.

stephenrjking

October 22nd, 2015 at 4:53 PM ^

"You can't read the UFR every week and then say ejecting our least effective defensive player swung the game in their favor. Not without me calling you on it anyway."

You can't preface a post disagreeing with someone by taking a cheap shot at a diary they wrote because you disagreed so strongly with their evaluation of an old movie that you decided that they had nothing interesting to say and expect people to take what you wrote seriously. Not without me calling you on it anyway.

schreibee

October 23rd, 2015 at 1:02 PM ^

Just saw this reply, obviously the next day, so my attempt to wade through your logic may be too late.
You're combining 2 different posts replying to 2 different comments into one retort. So I have to sort them out:
dragon blames the refs for swinging the game's momentum - indeed it's very outcome - by ejecting Bolden. I pointed out both why I disagree and why I felt it was facile. I "called him out" for smearing facts and feelings into one rage-hazed oversimplification about incompetence.
As for ST3's reply, well let's say you have a favorite novel, or album perhaps, and someone says "I read (listened) to that. Over-rated"...You're likely to make a mental note that this person's opinions may not prove insightful or interesting to you.
If that person then comes at you with the "you never played the game" retort - literally the weakest gambit on this board when debating football strategy and outcomes - I feel you'd be justified in telling them just when and why you dismissed their opinions from being relevant to you.
So, if you ever see this, you can call me out again on why my opinions don't matter to you. ST3 will still post his diary and I'll still comment on things I do or do not agree with. Go Blue!

BlueMarrow

October 22nd, 2015 at 1:27 PM ^

I've seen at least three deep throws that looked like bad overthrows, but were at least partially due to receivers slowing down on their route.

It's not all on Rudock.

ST3

October 22nd, 2015 at 3:28 PM ^

21 different Michigan players have caught a pass so far this season (20 if you don't count Rudock catching his own deflected pass.) He's been in the system for a little over half a season. I think it would be difficult to develop chemistry with 20 different receivers. The one he has the hardest time throwing to is Chesson, who also happens to be the fastest and not the best route runner. That said, we have about 5 weeks left to get this straightened out before OSU visits.

schreibee

October 22nd, 2015 at 3:03 PM ^

Both App St & osu '74 surpass this game on my disappointment/anger list for sure - and I could probably think of others as well - but never forget '73!!!

I'm still livid about that one! And who cast the deciding vote to send osu to Pasadena instead of us?! I'm more mad about that then I'll ever be about the botched punt! If they want to piss us off, they should mention their AD screwed us in '73!

schreibee

October 22nd, 2015 at 4:17 PM ^

Thank you - '01 sparty bob is one of the games I knew was just on the tip of my memory that irked me more than punt fail did.

I had a golf date scheduled the next day with my sparty uncle - Oh he thought our crying about the time-keeping was HI-Larious. Wanted to shank one into his shin about 15 times that day!

Another game that will forever be near the very top of my anger scale is the "Phantom TD" by Charles White in Leach's last game... and the Turrrible holding call on the fake punt in Bo's last game.

Oh, I got about another dozen before I come to the punt fail.... Hell, one of them didn't even involve us directly - Nebraska player tipping a ball with his foot to another husker for a TD in '97. Refs call that correctly and we never "share" the NC in '97!!!

Wolverine 73

October 22nd, 2015 at 1:32 PM ^

I think Harbaugh will stay at Michigan for the rest of his career if he is happy with the job.  It was good enough for Bo, and I think he will think it is good enough for him too.  Now, if the administration or the fans or the ghost of David Brandon screw with him to the point he decides it sucks, he'll go.  But I don't think he will go just to scale new mountains.  50 years from now, there is little chance he will be remembered as a legend in some NFL city even if he wins a Super Bowl or two; things fluctuate too much unless your are NE and have Tom Brady.  But 50 years from now, he can be remembered as Crisler or Yost or Bo if he stays at Michigan.  Either way, he'll have more money than he can reasonably spend, so why leave?

champswest

October 22nd, 2015 at 1:43 PM ^

after a few games that Rudock was good enough to produce a good season but not a great season. He is what he is. So when Harbaugh says that he is our best QB and it isn't close, I assume he is talking only about game management and not actual, you know, throwing the football.

What worries me, is that we may not be any better off next year. Is anyone hearing anything about the developement of Morris, O'Korn and others, or do we assume that all of that Harbaugh effect is going to take place in the off season?

stephenrjking

October 22nd, 2015 at 1:50 PM ^

I haven't heard that, where are you picking it up? I would think the best hope Michigan has long-term is Gentry, though if Morris does hold onto the redshirt that gives him another full two years of development. Consider that he is in the same year in the program that John Navarre was during his dreadful 2001 season.

His Dudeness

October 22nd, 2015 at 2:28 PM ^

All through spring and fall camp O'Korn has been running the scout team and giving our D a challenge. He's legit. Reports said he was "like Big Ben with more mobility" and I believe it. He was legit at Houston as a young player. I think he will be really good here next year and most likely be a two year starter. He's really good. Harbaugh didn't bring him up when talking about Rudock "being our best QB" because O'Korn isnt an option to play right now.

Everyone Murders

October 22nd, 2015 at 1:52 PM ^

I was at a party during the game filled with mostly neutral folks who decided to pull for MSU because they like my Spartan wife better than me.  (I get it - also I like my wife better than me.)

When Michigan lost you could sense that even neutrals were disappointed in my lack of angar.  The neutrals hadn't been through the last 10 years of blerggghhh that we've been through, and did not get why I wasn't apoplectic at the nasty ending to that game.  I explained that last year (or even the year we won a couple of years ago) the team was really hard to watch, and seemed on no trajectory whatsoever.  This year things are clearly improving, and losing a game on a fluke sucks, but doesn't change the big picture.  They looked at me quizzically, like had just started singing in Farsi or something.

Here's my mindset, and that of many of my fellow Michigan fans:  Now that we can see where we're headed, a few speed bumps along the way don't hurt as much.  Even the cavernous pothole of last Saturday was manageable; jarring, but not anything that changes my long-term outlook.

santosbfree

October 22nd, 2015 at 2:10 PM ^

I think if you put the teams in opposite shoes (Michigan blocks a State punt to win the game at the last minute) and this is last year where we were the underdog, then my opinion is that State doesn't feel hugely hurt by the outcome. They know they beat us and that the Wolverines boasts don't carry much weight. We might be bragging, but we wouldn't feel great either. We won on a fluke, and with Hoke as the coach we would all know that this was an aberration, not a sign of a new order.

The reality is that we did beat them in everything but the score. And this is with a crappy quarterback who can't throw 15+ yards down the field. The Sparties are mad because I think a lot of them realize that their dominance is over. We're going to crush these trash clowns for years now.

The only reason we were close enough to lose this game is because the officiating was so poor. I personally think the refs are not incompetent, rather they were trying to make sure State covered the spread. Michigan is a "public" team, had shut out three opponents in a row, and a ton of money was going their way. Tim Donaghy acknowledged that keeping games close is so much easier than swinging final outcomes. This was just a random event that came after a game full of referee score management.

newtopos

October 22nd, 2015 at 2:25 PM ^

I do not understand why so many of us believe that we will be "crushing" MSU in the near-future.  Yes, I think Harbaugh and his coaching staff are incredible, a 1000-fold improvement on the previous regime.  But Dantonio is also an excellent coach who firmly believes his only purpose on this earth is to find a way to beat Michigan.  Unfortunately for us, MSU is now recruiting on (or near) UM's level.  (The 2016 recruiting classes are basically even, with MSU getting two top-100 defensive ends.)  If Dantonio was able to put together top-5 national teams with lesser recruits, I do not see why his program is going to fall off a clif with the recruits they are getting now (even accounting for the loss of Narduzzi).

Realus

October 22nd, 2015 at 2:50 PM ^

a better team.
 
Regardless of Dantonio's coaching ability or obsession with UM, we are going to be better.  We are a football blue blood with a great coach.  OK, that's faith.  But it has been the way college football has worked for a long time.  As long as nothing catastrophic happens, next year, or the year after, or worst case the year after that, UM will clearly have the better team and will be beating MSU at least 2 out 3 times.
 
Part of the reason MSU has looked so good is because UM has sucked.  Also, its not clear that coaching up 3 stars to play like 4 stars is the same skill as coaching up 4 star players.  MSU will have to answer a lot of these questions:
 
How much does losing Narduzzi mean?  Possibly a lot.  
 
When's the next time MSU will have a great QB?  Next year?  The year after?  Not once in the next 10 years?
 
If good teams have figured out how to exploit MSU's defense, can Dantonio adjust?

DetroitBlue

October 22nd, 2015 at 8:49 PM ^

There's an almost zero chance that state has the better team next year. They'll be breaking in a new qb, losing their only decent receiver, their best d-end, and probably more. Connor Cook was the only reason they were in the game and he'll be gone. We lose Rudock, our LBs and Wilson. I'm hoping we don't have any early NFL entries, but even so, top to bottom we will be the better team



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michigan313

October 22nd, 2015 at 3:01 PM ^

Do you not remember what Harbaugh was able to do with Stanford against USC? He went into the Coliseum and beat them 55-21 when USC was ranked #9 in the country and Pete Carroll had way more 5 star recruits on his roster than Dantonio can ever dream of. If O'Korn (or Taysom Hill) is the real deal, I bet you anything we beat them by at least two TDs next season.

Blue Balls Afire

October 22nd, 2015 at 3:06 PM ^

I'm one of those who believes Michigan will crush MSU going forward.  I'm talking wins and losses against them, not the score of any particular game.  Dantonio is a great coach who gets the most out of his talent like you mention, and he has been able to recruit at a higher level recently.  However, that rise in recruiting directly coincides with Michigan's on-field mediocrity the last 7 years.  We have Harbaugh now, which means we'll start winning a lot, so I believe Michigan will go back to dominating the Spartans in recruiting.  Sparty goes back to having to depend on Dantonio squeezing blood from a stone.  But Harbaugh will absolutely max out his talent too.  Dantonio maxing out his recruits won't add up to 7 wins in eight years over Harbaugh maxing out his respective recruits--just the opposite.  Also, once Dantonio starts losing to Harbaugh regularly, I think Dantonio leaves before his record against Blue goes below 500.  The Dantonio years will have been their golden era, but it was the result of a perfect storm. After that, unless Sparty hires Saban 2.0, they'll go back to being the irrelevant clown college they've always been. 

bryemye

October 22nd, 2015 at 1:56 PM ^

fans would follow mgoblog at all. It has never even occured to me to go to their big blogs (11W and The Only Colors I imagine?) The only possible reason I could see would be schadenfreude and even then, I can't imagine being actually mad about what I see.  I suppose I can understand the bloggers themselves for community-of-bloggers reasons, but that is about it.

It is all very strange. Anyway, my anger level right now and for most of this week has been way lower than it was for the majority of the Al Borges Experience. And don't even get me started on the GERG years. 

If this happened to ruin our chances of a national title, I would be heartbroken. As is... I mean it sucked, but life goes on. 

Sparty123

October 22nd, 2015 at 5:29 PM ^

and I check this blog regularly (not just during UM-MSU week) because the writing is good.  I don't spend much time reading about recruiting or whatnot because that doesn't interest me, but the post-game analysis and UV are interesting reads.

I also like the comments because there's some interesting points of view, and I especialy like whatever Space Coyote and alum96 (his stock report each week is one of my faves) have to say - always fair and objective.  Occassionally I take up a conversation when someone makes silly claims like"Izzo can't recruit anymore" or "MSU will suck now that M is good again" but that's what rivalries are about, I guess.

I've wandered over 11W a few times but the content isn't as good.  I also like BHGP, Hammer and Rails, and Bucky's Fifth Quarter because...... the content is good and I like knowing what my rivals are up to.

schreibee

October 23rd, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^

You DO realize you don't represent the tone or tenor of your fellow fans & alum AT ALL, right sparty123?
I grew up in an era when people could have green-blue split families or friendships without it meaning all out war. When Michigan fans would enthusiastically root FOR msu against nd or osu.
Well clearly those times have changed and it WAS NOT instigated by U-M people! The fact that most of the Wolverines I know who still live in Michigan feel beating msu is more important to them than beating osu, well that's just a damn shame to me. Bo would be disgusted!
But that's what proximity to a chafing annoyance can cause.

JeffDC

October 22nd, 2015 at 2:07 PM ^

We only need them to lose to OSU and for us to win out.  In that event (assuming the only losses are MSU to OSU and OSU to M), the three of us would be tied and the tiebreaker would be highest rated in the CFB playoff poll, which isn't too much of a stretch considering the fluke nature of the MSU-M game and the fact that we would be coming off a win over undefeated and #1 ranked OSU.

See linked article from Tom Dienhart:

http://btn.com/2015/10/20/dienhart-we-may-have-to-wait-on-big-ten-title…

 

yoshfriedman

October 22nd, 2015 at 2:11 PM ^

If only because as someone who has a little brother, I've found that my little brother is actually beyond supportive of me in everything. And I of him. We have different relative strengths and I'm certain that when he surpasses (or has surpassed) my skills in various endeavors, he celebrated perhaps for a bit and then got to focusing on making himself even better.

This isn't little brother. This is the little sh-t cousin at every family gathering (to whom you refuse to believe you're related) who is deadset on being better than you, and one-upping you, even after the conversation has moved onto another topic (like, how we have a bye week and still have to win the Jug in two Saturdays, but the only thing Spartans can focus on is the biggest fluke and probably second largest ref screwjob [Spartan Bob] in the history of Michigan football.)

Jemele Hill taking up 90% of her segment to rip on Michigan is not what a little brother would do. It is the sign of a pathologically insecure and obsessed fanbase that has nothing to live for except to beat Michigan. It'd honestly be adorable if it weren't so pathetic.

umchicago

October 22nd, 2015 at 2:16 PM ^

i was a little surpised the UM didn't at least line up on 4th down as if they were going for it.  then have jake do a hard count to try to get an offsides.  might not work but there really is no good reason NOT to try it.  the 5 yd penalty means nothing there.

J.

October 22nd, 2015 at 3:10 PM ^

I'm not convinced Michigan has the hard count in their arsenal.  They certainly don't seem to have its cousin, the automatic snap when the defense jumps offsides.  And, if the player didn't make contact, you'd need that automatic snap -- and you'd hae to hope that the referees noticed that MSU jumped.